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Nutters pounding a flat earth

One should never get into an argument with a nutter, an idiot, a monomaniac or a person whose reason is slave to a grand idea. You will not win the argument because you cannot, and more than likely you will make yourself, not the other person, foolish trying to do so.

As a journalist, and sometime participant in public arguments, I sometimes find it difficult to remain polite to people simply not susceptible to reason, if only because one of the grand ideas behind journalism perhaps behind democracy is the theory that debate helps unveil the truth, and that it is the truth which sets one free.

But sometimes it is nice to see upwards from out of the pit. I've been reading this week Flat earth - the history of an infamous idea, by Christine Garwood (Pan, 436pp, $24.95) with particular amusement coming from having been, during the late 1960s, president of the Australian Flat Earth Society, and discovering how generally similar our rhetorical tricks were to those used elsewhere by flat-earthers over the past two centuries.

The Australian society was composed of schoolboy debaters. We promoted our theories at the Sydney Domain on Sunday afternoons, usually before about 300 or 400 people at a time. We were rarely bested by any of the thousands of people who, in those days, would flock to the Domain for an afternoon's entertainment, listening to political and religious speakers, cranks and nutters.

We had well-rehearsed lines for coping with all of the most obvious pieces of ''evidence'' proving that the world was a sphere - the disappearing horizon, solar eclipses and so on - and deliberately convoluted explanations for more complicated proofs (the precession of the equinoxes etc) that would more quickly bore the crowds with our interlocutors than with ourselves.

Man had already landed on the moon, but, we insisted, with a certain amount of innuendo about wicked Yankee imperialism, the whole astronaut thing was a fake with sinister undertones, and the moon photos, particularly of the earth, were Hollywood fakes. Indeed we would ourselves produce the photographs, drawing attention to shadows going in opposite directions.

Our earth was like a plate with the north pole (to which the compass pointed) in the centre and the continents spread out. A person circumnavigating the earth in an easterly direction was describing a circle on the plate. The edge of the earth consisted of icy mountains. The sun was moving in a generally circular way a few thousand kilometres overhead, focusing a beam on about half the earth at a time.

We had come to these deductions more or less by ourselves, if with some cross reference to what was said in the newspapers by the few famous international flat earthers.

As Garwood establishes, it is nonsense to think that most educated people believed in a flat earth up until some period (say Columbus's discovery of America), or that, say, the Catholic Church or public opinion punished sphericists during a period before the advent of Reason or modern science. There were always some dogmatic flat earthers, many of whom based their views on a literal reading of the Bible, but educated people since Ptolemy more than 2000 years ago had deduced or induced the broad facts.

Indeed public proclaiming a flat earth, and seeking hard to prove it, started only about 200 years ago, in part as a reaction to an increasing prestige for science, and in part from a view that sooner or later, scientific rationalism would come into complete conflict with religion, ethics and the words of the Bible.

In this sense, many of the flat earth arguments anticipate other arguments which developed about evolution, the age of the earth and whether there was a Creation (perhaps 6000 years ago) of the sort described in Genesis. Indeed I would go slightly further and say that strict Bible literalists should believe in a flat earth as firmly as they believe in the Creation story and deny evolution.

We of the Australian society eschewed Biblical arguments, and relied on the fact that most people simply assumed a spherical earth, thinking that they could ''prove'' it by common sense and the smattering of science they had learnt. Most couldn't, certainly not in mere argument without recourse to experiment, and things such as the horizon could be easily explained away.

Nineteenth century flat earthers tried to appeal to a pseudo-scientific reason, but via a form of scientific method which, while pretending to respect evidence, found it easy to reject any evidence which did not suit. One pioneer described this as Zetetics - a set of techniques now most commonly (ab)used by nutters who believe in the paranormal, messages from the afterlife, and the paraphernalia of the new age.

Occasionally deadly serious people, most famously the scientist Alfred Russell Wallace would be goaded by challenges from flat earthers to prove the rotundity of the earth. He could, indeed did, by a famous experiment on the Bedford Canal but failed to reckon with the capacity of his opponents to deny what they had seen, to misrepresent what had occurred and ultimately to claim their own vindication. It was he, not them, who was bamboozled and lost money and reputation, if only for his foolishness in ever getting involved. By then, anyway, true believers could cope with adverse circumstance or easy counter arguments. Adversity and diabolic reason, as so often for nutters, only renewed the sense of a noble crusade against powerful enemies.

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As nutter, an idiot, a monomaniac and a person whose reason is slave to a grand idea I could carefully deconstruct and disintegrate your thesis point by point, but I couldn’t be arsed. Rene Descartes walks into a bar, and orders a beer, then sits staring off into space. The barmaid asks "What are you thinking about Rene?" Descartes replies "Nothing", and promptly disappears in a puff of logic...
Posted by Alfy Norks, 13/06/2008 5:15:19 AM
I recall you writing several years ago that one of the arts of writing a good editorial is the ability to be able to argue both, or all sides of any discussion. And at the same time I recall you citing the case of writing two contrary versions of the one editorial, and selecting for publication the more compelling and challenging piece. The early grounding in front of 400 frustrated challengers at The Domain, was clearly good experience for the career ahead.
Posted by Bob Bloggs, 13/06/2008 11:19:13 AM
Genesis & Science: You can expect skepticism from atheists, and evolutionists, concerning historical accuracy of early Genesis, where it describes seven (24-hr) days in Earth’s prehistoric past. It’s not all their fault. The fossil record of death, preserved for us by “mother Earth”, is an undeniable testament of several eras of life forms living and dying in the past. It is scientific reality. But when creationists and theologians try to convey to us what they think is written in Genesis, they give ammunition to the opposing side. Those that preach “young Earth” doctrines misrepresent Genesis, and are actually teaching foolishness, giving us incorrect literal interpretation of scripture. Those that teach “long days” and theistic evolution are infidels, calling God a liar, and compromising with the opposing side. After defining the work week, God specifically told Israel that He had created the universe, the Earth, and all that is in it in six days…., the same six days that Israel was to do it’s work, and to rest on the seventh day. When God told Joshua to march around Jericho for seven days, did God mean something other than 168 hours? God created all science. God co-authored the book of Genesis. Therefore, Genesis is a book of “advanced” science. It is the only book given to humanity that tells us of events that took place on Earth before the advent of modern mankind, namely Adam and Eve, which did not arrive until about 7200 BC. Genesis specifically states that humanity existed on Earth, in God’s image, before Adam and Eve were made. But the worlds of creationism and theology fail to realize this. But the truth of Genesis will be known, no matter how hard those of religious persuasion try to deny it, and try to keep it hid from mankind. For it is they that are to blame for giving us false teachings, and trying to keep their ignorance of the truth from being exposed. How many times have you heard someone say “ Genesis is not a book of science”? They were not an expert on Genesis. They seem to think that the writers of the Bible looked to their own understanding and wrote the scriptures, creating myths of our origins from legends that they had heard or learned from others. But it is the opposite that is true. Surrounding nations had bits and pieces of ancient stories told to them by their fore-fathers, who had gotten them from the sons of Noah. After God made Adam, it is reasonable to assume that sometime later, he asked God how everything came into being. God may had shown Adam the same thing that He showed Moses, but it wasn’t written down and was carried by word of mouth from generation to generation, being distorted every time it was re-told. But God reset the record, and revealed to Moses what happened in past eras on Earth, which modern science is only in the last 200 years beginning to discover, proving that Genesis is divinely inspired, and a book of advanced science. Herman Cummings PO Box 1735 Fortson GA, 318-8 ephraim7@aol.com
Posted by hzcummi, 16/06/2008 2:33:02 PM
How obliging of Herman Cummings to provide an example of 'Zetetics', a new word for me!
Posted by Peter, 18/06/2008 1:18:26 PM
MOPPING UP THE LAST CRUMBS OF AN ANTIQUATED PARADIGM – CLIMATE NO CHANGE Who will speak for science when the barbarian is already inside the gate? Science today, that triumph of humanity over primitive superstition, that monument to the evolutionary miracle of the human brain, is now being debased by barbarians. The Church of green warming religions is very big in Christian Europe. Everyday anythings are now blamed on warming and reported uncritically by media. The dumbed-down, trumped-up science is the modern religious medicine used to mesmerise the masses. Institutionalised across the globe, politicians and activists of all persuasions, present their arguments in terms of what ‘the trumped-up science’ is telling them to do. The so called “world’s best thinkers” have grabbed and promoted this moral agenda emphasising sinful behaviour change over technological innovation - purchasing the absolution of carbon offsets for their sins. Climate environmentalism is a political mission with a religious agenda, offering disciples the delicious prospect of being in the right and running things under the motherhood banner of saving the planet - very attractive to the young and fearful old. Activists demand the high moral ground, with an epitaph chanting “O Mother Earth… pardon me for trampling on you.” Any movement enforcing this degree of moral certitude is a sign of uncertain things to come. The science of future climate is in its infancy and is multi-disciplinary, no one branch knows the whole story. The truth is - climate prediction is hard, half of the variability in the climate system is not predictable and modellers don’t expect to do well. We are being asked to take irreversible actions today, to produce un-testable postulates for tomorrow, based on computer simulated predictions in excess of 100 years. Very iffy stuff! When the Western world became increasingly pessimistic about Man’s carbon footprint, science was hijacked to decode nature’s message. The more scientists research global climate, the more we learn how much they don’t know. The more alarmists talk, the more we realize they know even less. We live on a majestically dynamic planet with intertwining complexes. Scenarios for future climate involve natural equations of infinite variables. Fluctuation in the Sun’s intensity is arguably the controlling factor in Earth’s climate. To assume human induced carbon emissions alone will significantly alter predictions is pretentious pseudo-science. Advocating carbon change will change the way you live, but will not change future climate. It’s a blatant tax on breathing. To accept the mantra of evil carbon is to invite the death of nationalism to dinner. That’s the thing about history…when you live it, you’re rarely there. Real science is alive and lives in time. It is what it is. Not what it should have been or would have been. It is what it is. So enjoy the journey, because the destination may not be that great. Look at the best educated generation in history… all dressed up with nowhere to go. Superstition is the mantra of the day. Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge? Where is the knowledge we have lost in information? Science, that once esteemed bastion of knowledge and fertile pillar to truth, has been neutered into the floppy-dick instrument of global politics and vested activists. Not only does the censorship of science render it impotent, it also looses its ability to objectively inform the public, producing an atmosphere of deafness towards insight and freedoms. What is at risk is not the climate but freedom. Today we live in the most censored of times. Is it not high time we entered a dialogue to awaken an audience to the enveloping clouds of non-news that invade our everyday? “Global warming” is only a vehicle that exemplifies part of the way the system works. It is the insidious procession of the erosion of human rights through the co-verted use of selective censorship, that we should be most interested in. Climate science is in the van-guard of such a procession. The scientific method is not perfect but it does “sophisticate the superstition” and provides a method upon which to gauge progress and proximity of truth. The funnelling of science to deliver a prescribed outcome happens everywhere everyday. In the past, science has arguably aided well for prescribed beneficial outcomes. But the stakes are sky high and connived in the case of global warming. The western world is not going to cripple itself to iron-out injustice. The moral or philosophical question here is, does the end justify the means or the start of a slippery slope? The real question is, what will they pick on next using “science” to substantiate their stance?
Posted by michael haylen, 22/07/2008 11:01:49 PM
Jack Waterford
Erudite observations from the Editor-at-Large of The Canberra Times.

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