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Markets Live: BHP splits

Date

Patrick Commins, Jens Meyer

Shares forge higher as investors are buoyed by earnings results from companies like Toll, Amcor and IAG, ahead of BHP's late result.

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  • @ Eds, it would be interesting to reflect on the timeline history on BHP. Younger readers might not be aware that it is only about 20 years ago that BHP and Billiton merged into the entity that we know today.

    It would be interesting to remind us just how many tens of millions the companies paid the investment banks 20 years ago for the advice that they should merge, and how many tens of millions they will pay the same or different IBs now for the advice that they should demerge.

    Commenter
    pass the red
    Date and time
    August 19, 2014, 4:40PM
    • I guess it's just the way the company has evolved. Demergers aren't new for BHP (BSL and ARI).

      Commenter
      Sticks
      Date and time
      August 19, 2014, 4:51PM
    • @ sticks, true about BSL and ARI but nothing remotely on this scale.

      Commenter
      pass the red
      Date and time
      August 19, 2014, 5:02PM
  • BHP was meant to announce its dividend today (19 Aug). Nothing so far. Does it operate on local time/dates or USA?

    Commenter
    Gareth
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    August 19, 2014, 4:22PM
    • MND up to $16.50 now.
      Last year,people paid up to $20.50 to get a 75cent div,on that basis it should have at least another dollar to go for this years 63 cent div,while arguably there is less uncertainty this year than last so li may go even higher.

      Commenter
      Loki
      Date and time
      August 19, 2014, 3:50PM
      • That $7 co-payment is going to turn the medical profession into tax collectors and will increase overheads & processing costs. More red tape from a gov't that makes a big son and dance from getting rid of it. A relative recently had major surgery. There were at least 10 separate tests & procedures required beforehand and many more and more still to come afterwards. Could be up to 30 tests & consults @ $7 a time before its all over.

        Commenter
        mitch of ACT
        Date and time
        August 19, 2014, 3:27PM
        • ...."Could be up to 30 tests & consults @ $7 a time before its all over"....

          Is it really that bad? As bad as selling our country? Populating that will crush minimum wages, crush Australians in every way?? You sure there's not bigger fights?

          Commenter
          JohnBB
          Date and time
          August 19, 2014, 3:42PM
        • don't think so!

          Commenter
          priscilla
          Location
          drama queen of the ASX
          Date and time
          August 19, 2014, 3:45PM
        • @JohnBB - I think Nero thought his fiddle more important than the approaching barbarians. We've learned nothing in the last 1,600 years ...

          Commenter
          Dr No
          Location
          Sydney
          Date and time
          August 19, 2014, 3:47PM
        • @Johnbb. I suppose she need not have had the operation and procedures. That would be one less member of the population to overcrowd the place.

          Commenter
          mitch of ACT
          Date and time
          August 19, 2014, 3:51PM
        • Major surgery to save your life for $70....good value to me, well at least I think im worth $70...

          Commenter
          Wwwish Lion
          Location
          Melbourne
          Date and time
          August 19, 2014, 4:03PM
        • A $210 bill for major surgery,,,depending on whether they have insurance or not,this will be one of the smaller expenses they have. If they are a child or concession card holder,then it would only be $70.
          Good value or not?

          Commenter
          Loki
          Date and time
          August 19, 2014, 4:07PM
        • @Dr No...Nero..I like that.

          @mitch...twisted priorities.

          Commenter
          JohnBB
          Date and time
          August 19, 2014, 4:45PM
      • John Hulsman commenting on Germany's disastrous energy policies. Let's make sure we don't copy Germany on this policy:

        " ... Third, wholly botched energy reforms, wherein Germany abruptly turned away from nuclear power without putting anything economically sustainable in its place (instead touting that some day, somehow wind and solar will make economic sense) has left the country at a permanent, seemingly long-term economic disadvantage that simply cannot be overcome. German energy prices are fully three times as high industrially as those of their American competitors. As I say to my somewhat nervous German colleagues, "You are all talented, but you are not three times more talented than the Americans". ... "

        Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/world-business/saved-by-germany-europes-kidding-itself-20140819-105omh.html#ixzz3AoS21bAX

        Commenter
        Dr No
        Location
        Sydney
        Date and time
        August 19, 2014, 3:26PM
        • Yes lets run a bit of a poll as to who will fall over first?
          USA
          China
          EU
          Japan
          Russia
          Australia
          i vote for EU been a basket case for ages and all the window dressing in the world cant hold back the fact...closer to the guggler than the rest,all imo

          Commenter
          BearsahpedBull
          Location
          Political Fallout Shelter
          Date and time
          August 19, 2014, 3:48PM
        • What, in response to Fukushima Germany turned off its nuclear power stations in favour of renewables and didn't switch to coal, of which it has plenty. Replacing nuclear with coal would have been substituting one poison for another. And despite energy costs Germany is still the economic powerhouse of Europe. You don't have to breathe polluted air to be wealthy.

          Commenter
          mitch of ACT
          Date and time
          August 19, 2014, 4:03PM
        • The average German household pays A$120/month for electricity.

          That's cheap considering the high percentage of renewables and half the price is taxes and fees.

          Commenter
          Allan
          Location
          Prahran
          Date and time
          August 19, 2014, 4:23PM
        • What matters is not what households pay, it's what industry pays which matters to the German economy. And they're paying 3 times more than American industry. It's a disaster.

          We must also remember that coal and wind farms kill far more people than nuclear does. From Forbes magazine:

          " ... In England, there were 163 wind turbine accidents that killed 14 people in 2011. Wind produced about 15 billion kWhrs that year, so using a capacity factor of 25%, that translates to about 1,000 deaths per trillion kWhrs produced (the world produces 15 trillion kWhrs per year from all sources).

          These are pretty low numbers. By contrast, in 2011 coal produced about 180 billion kWhrs in England with about 3,000 related deaths. Nuclear energy produced over 90 billion kWhrs in England with no deaths. In that same year, America produced about 800 billion kWhrs from nuclear with no deaths. ... "

          Wind farms kill.

          Commenter
          Dr No
          Location
          Sydney
          Date and time
          August 19, 2014, 4:43PM
      • The sell-down in TLS before it goes ex-entitlement for the offmarket buy back is well underway. Sold some at $5.64 in expectation of getting scaled back out of the buyback. May buy back in for the dividend, then again may not as the ex-div is painful.

        Commenter
        mitch of ACT
        Date and time
        August 19, 2014, 3:19PM
        • Shorters ok?

          Commenter
          Shorter Stalker
          Location
          now now...
          Date and time
          August 19, 2014, 3:16PM
          • good to watch a few short squeezes in full flight, love it!

            Commenter
            get shorty
            Date and time
            August 19, 2014, 3:15PM
            • I have an original idea for the BHPBILLITON spinco name.

              Spinco = Billiton
              Remaining = BHP

              Just get out all the old letter heads and save some rebranding money!

              Eds: The AFR's Rear Window has called the spin-off CrapCo! Can't see that taking off...

              Commenter
              Back to the future
              Date and time
              August 19, 2014, 3:07PM
              • crapco works for me

                Commenter
                mushy
                Date and time
                August 19, 2014, 3:21PM
            • @2:22pm article, the sketch guy seems to be my kind of investor...its ok to be wrong sometimes, have fun and make money

              Commenter
              Wwwish Lion
              Location
              Melbourne
              Date and time
              August 19, 2014, 2:27PM
              • Funeral company Invocare's (IVC) reports always make for an unusual read. "With a strong end to the half, InvoCare has
                reported a solid operating result, with
                leverage growth and strong cash flows.
                Market share has been maintained since the end of 2013 and indications are the numbers of deaths have increased from May 2014, reversing declines encountered from April 2013."
                Last year they blamed a poor result on less deaths from a warmer winter.

                Commenter
                mitch of ACT
                Date and time
                August 19, 2014, 2:25PM
                • You've lost me, Mitch. What is wrong with that explanation? Poor trend from April 2013 influences relatively poor 2013 result. Pick up from May 2014 helps stronger 2014 result. Not sure what you're getting at?

                  Commenter
                  pass the red
                  Date and time
                  August 19, 2014, 2:37PM
                • Let's just say try to put off being one of their clients for as long as you can.

                  Commenter
                  mitch of ACT
                  Date and time
                  August 19, 2014, 2:42PM
                • @ Mitch, lol, I can live with that advice.

                  As a side note I've held Invocare since they floated. ($1.50 from memory). I'm probably a bit numb to their announcements after so many years. There aren't many other businesses that would be cheering on the ebola outbreak.

                  Commenter
                  pass the red
                  Location
                  pass the red
                  Date and time
                  August 19, 2014, 4:22PM
              • Check out my baby Automotive Holdings (AHE)... up 4.75% :)

                Maybe CBA-ers switching out! Nothing new announced... the 12.5c div on a $3.79 stock was announced last week :)

                Commenter
                GS
                Date and time
                August 19, 2014, 2:19PM
                • The curse is lifted. I think SGN needs a little more voodoo.

                  Commenter
                  Calcualtor
                  Date and time
                  August 19, 2014, 3:10PM
                • It must be a 1 or 2 day curse! hehe

                  Commenter
                  GS
                  Date and time
                  August 19, 2014, 3:19PM
                • SGN getting closer to a buy every day! $1.20 not far away now, just need a down night in the US

                  Commenter
                  Allan Mitchell
                  Location
                  SEQLD
                  Date and time
                  August 19, 2014, 3:29PM
                • With SGN, it will go ex-div 1st Sep. It could get there afterwards... or people jump in before that and jack up the price.

                  The total yearly div afterwards will be super-juicy! It already is now at this price. (taking a medium-long term view). Could just be a delayed reaction like AHE!

                  Commenter
                  GS
                  Date and time
                  August 19, 2014, 3:43PM
              • "The boom in merger and acquisitions, for example, has pumped a lot of cash into the market, helping to push prices higher than what the performance of the economy would justify"

                What? You mean prices can be temporarily and artificially divorced from underlying value? Say it isn't so!

                Commenter
                Allan
                Location
                Prahran
                Date and time
                August 19, 2014, 2:18PM
                • If everything reflected intrinsic value properly there'd be no such thing as day traders or cheap stocks.

                  Commenter
                  Sceptical Prophet
                  Date and time
                  August 19, 2014, 2:32PM
              • sorry @BSB but I have to say Clive Palmer is behaving in a manner which not only is affecting our livelihood from the performance of the stock market but making us unnecessarily vulnerable to the Chinese in many quarters.

                To top it off his senator Jackie Lambie has just said on radio that we have to double the size of our defence to guard against an invasion from China.

                Absurd, ridiculous, who votes for these people?

                Commenter
                craig
                Date and time
                August 19, 2014, 2:09PM
                • @Craig...Who votes for them?...People that can't stand the other two parties even more...Go Clive..Go Clive.

                  Stop selling us out Labor and LNP.

                  Commenter
                  JohnBB
                  Date and time
                  August 19, 2014, 2:41PM
              • So the nasty Budget was going to send us into recession was it?
                Clearly, the forward looking market doesn't think so.
                Consumer confidence is back to normal,business confidence is high and the XJO is trending higher.

                Commenter
                Loki
                Date and time
                August 19, 2014, 1:55PM
                • If all of the Budget measures as proposed were passed we would dip into recession as the spending power of millions of consumers was cut. However the market is pinning its hopes on the Senate refusing to pass the worst of the measures. Even so I see rising unemployment and a lasting impact to consumer confidence. A round of interest rate cuts is still a distinct possibility. An extract from yesterday's ALR's results report. "Outlook
                  The new financial year has started positively, with the share market posting strong gains in July, ahead of reporting season. After a somewhat contractionary budget, we remain cautiously optimistic despite recent weaker retail sales and signs of weaker consumer sentiment."
                  http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20140818/pdf/42rjrcrk0ymx3q.pdf
                  ALR is an investment company. They make their money reading the market and responding accordingly with more experience that you or I.

                  Commenter
                  mitch of ACT
                  Date and time
                  August 19, 2014, 2:16PM
                • It's silly to think that our economy would be affected by small measures in the budget. If anything a drop in consumption would be positive for our economy at this state.

                  What's driving the economy now is US money-printing, Chinese investment in real estate and Chinese demand for our resources.

                  Commenter
                  Dr No
                  Location
                  Sydney
                  Date and time
                  August 19, 2014, 2:42PM
                • So ,ALR is cautiously optimistic,,,,sounds OK to me.

                  Commenter
                  Loki
                  Date and time
                  August 19, 2014, 2:46PM
                • Consumers have switched off the relentless negativity that exuded from the opposition,and reality is beginning to drive the market higher as people realise they are actually doing quite well.
                  Get ready for strong retail sales into Xmas..All retailers will do well.

                  Commenter
                  Loki
                  Date and time
                  August 19, 2014, 2:52PM
                • @Loki, it's hard to switch off the negativity as a consumer if your job is in danger. Lots of empty shops. I suppose those retailers who are still left by Christmas will do well as their competition will have closed down.

                  Commenter
                  mitch of ACT
                  Date and time
                  August 19, 2014, 3:34PM
              • Watpac

                Is that the industry today you have to manage 1.2 billion dollars of work to get a net profit of 1.4%.

                They should open a Woolworths at least the cash flow is better. Lot of sympathy for them if they are stuck in that business

                Commenter
                Harry Rogers
                Date and time
                August 19, 2014, 1:54PM
                • Bit of a buzz for CZZ
                  "Honey flows again after rain"

                  Commenter
                  BearshapedBull
                  Location
                  Political Fallout Shelter
                  Date and time
                  August 19, 2014, 1:52PM
                    • Have been hanging on to CZZ for a while, and was thinking of selling but Kerry is in the buying mood.. perhaps he knows something I don't about CZZ ..he certainly would not jump in expecting it to go down ..have not got enough to sell down some.. and still have a worthwhile parcel.. .first world problem I know but hanging on for the time being.

                      Commenter
                      Lean Too
                      Date and time
                      August 19, 2014, 3:40PM
                  • @harry'did you read this?
                    https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/business/wa/a/24749040/doray-flags-non-cash-hit/

                    Commenter
                    BearshapedBull
                    Location
                    Political Fallout S
                    Date and time
                    August 19, 2014, 1:42PM
                    • Thanks BSB never saw it. I like the energy of the management in these smaller miners. Bought some more yesterday.

                      Tossing up whether I sell BHP .Never changes always sell too early price rises or the usual hold off and price drops.

                      Bought JIN without proper analysis although reasonably comfortable (he says after the fact) at the price need to put some tape on my BUY button.

                      Commenter
                      Harry Rogers
                      Date and time
                      August 19, 2014, 2:40PM
                  • Can we stop with the political diatribe pls...and spriucking parties,Eds can we draw a line here its getting a little too off topic.

                    Commenter
                    BearshapedBull
                    Location
                    Political Fallout Shelter
                    Date and time
                    August 19, 2014, 1:16PM
                    • Yes I'm sure that if you hold shares in companies that are and will be affected by decisions of gov't to water down or abolish the RET, for example, whichever party holds gov't is just irrelevant. Just as the impact of the Budget or alternate party policies on the market is of no consequence.

                      Commenter
                      mitch of ACT
                      Date and time
                      August 19, 2014, 1:45PM
                    • I am sure the people who lost greater than 50% on their MMS shares last year are in full agreement with you @Mitch!

                      $18.64 on 15/07/2013
                      $6.75 intra day low when re-opened on 25/07/2013

                      Commenter
                      Allan Mitchell
                      Location
                      SEQLD
                      Date and time
                      August 19, 2014, 2:23PM
                    • @BSB i agree their is a difference between making market comment to policy (ie this may be negaitve/positive to share xxx or sector yyy), but most of these are off topic rants that the government is bad, that only get the comeback of politics affect business

                      Commenter
                      Wwwish Lion
                      Location
                      Melbourne
                      Date and time
                      August 19, 2014, 2:25PM
                  • Alfa75 spotted in Glacier national Park:

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O05nyS6hwQ

                    Commenter
                    Allan
                    Location
                    Prahran
                    Date and time
                    August 19, 2014, 1:14PM
                    • Same old story as always ... market looking for value. Can't really understand when they say a 20 PE is over valued .

                      Get used to it ....1 yr Bank Bills are 2.5% or pre tax 40 PE. Work your way up from there (risk return) and then assess what you consider expensive.

                      New paradigm has been here for at least a year or so but of course the inexperienced analysts don't understand.

                      Just my opinion.

                      Commenter
                      Harry Rogers
                      Date and time
                      August 19, 2014, 1:09PM
                      • Uh oh! New paradigm alert!

                        http://www.investinganswers.com/images/asset-bubble-phases.jpg

                        Commenter
                        Allan
                        Location
                        Prahran
                        Date and time
                        August 19, 2014, 1:17PM
                      • good call

                        Commenter
                        mushroom
                        Date and time
                        August 19, 2014, 1:23PM
                      • @ Harry, I have said exactly that on several occasions, including yesterday.

                        The value of any investment is relative to alternatives. In periods of low to very low interest rates of course alternatives that pay higher returns are going to be more valuable.

                        Only a total dufus could have been watching long term bond yields fall over the last two years but still try to argue that share and property prices were going to collapse at the same time.

                        Commenter
                        pass the red
                        Date and time
                        August 19, 2014, 1:37PM
                      • And only a total dufus would believe that massive expansion of money supply, global debt and increased risk of deflation are not systemic risks.

                        Commenter
                        Allan
                        Location
                        Prahran
                        Date and time
                        August 19, 2014, 1:42PM
                      • I have a very progressive healthcare stock running at ^45% gain over last 12 months,the P/E ratio = 76.47
                        am i concerned,not in the laest and the market seems to be of the same opinion all these calls on nothing greater than 16x is too risky may suit the more conservative investor but anyone willing to trade the market must make their own judgements by researching and keeping a close eye for relevant signals.

                        Commenter
                        BearshapedBull
                        Location
                        Political Fallout Shelter
                        Date and time
                        August 19, 2014, 1:51PM
                      • You're right, Harry. When something seems to continually be defying all theory and expectations (that includes the share market and the housing market), you can continue to say 'wow' or you can start to wonder if your theories are all wrong and the rules have now changed. For all we know, maybe shares and housing are both undervalued at the moment and those who have reworked their theories are going to clean up.

                        Commenter
                        Gareth
                        Location
                        Sydney
                        Date and time
                        August 19, 2014, 1:55PM
                      • Don't see anyone arguing that property and share prices are going to drop 90%. A 30% drop is not a collapse so your point is moot.

                        Commenter
                        Not really
                        Date and time
                        August 19, 2014, 1:56PM
                      • "keeping a close eye for relevant signals"

                        Like embezzlement, false accounting, faked trial results. That kind of thing?

                        Commenter
                        White collar
                        Location
                        Crime
                        Date and time
                        August 19, 2014, 2:13PM
                      • "New paradigm alert"...you are quite funny Allan. Also a point well made.

                        Commenter
                        Elric
                        Location
                        Melnibone
                        Date and time
                        August 19, 2014, 2:23PM
                      • I always rued the day when Excel and Power Point were released and we have the creation of charts for supporting an argument.

                        The sheer ignorance at seminars when they put up historical movements or trend lines or even conjured magic with how human investors think by saying boom period now bust period must follow "Look at the charts!"deserves the ridicule of the medicine salesman.

                        As Einstein said about predicting human response"One need only think of the weather, in which case the prediction even for a few days ahead is impossible.”

                        Maybe we need another chart to show how charts are don't predict anything??

                        Commenter
                        Harry Rogers
                        Date and time
                        August 19, 2014, 4:04PM
                      • Uh oh! New paradigm alert confirmed!

                        Commenter
                        Allan
                        Location
                        Prahran
                        Date and time
                        August 19, 2014, 4:24PM
                    • I bought FMG at $11. How long untill I get my money back?

                      Commenter
                      Long term investor
                      Date and time
                      August 19, 2014, 12:36PM
                      • I sold JBH the day it listed taking the stag profit. It went on to be a 10-bagger +

                        Regrets ,, part and parcel of the game.

                        Commenter
                        50BahtLeo
                        Date and time
                        August 19, 2014, 1:17PM
                      • The phrase "When Hell freezes over" comes to mind.

                        Commenter
                        Goldfinger
                        Location
                        Sydney
                        Date and time
                        August 19, 2014, 4:05PM
                    • Weren't we here 8 years ago?

                      Commenter
                      Market Historian
                      Date and time
                      August 19, 2014, 12:33PM
                      • Vote for Clive to save Australia....AND get rid of the two most destructive parties this country's ever seen before there's nothing left to save.

                        Commenter
                        JohnBB
                        Date and time
                        August 19, 2014, 12:29PM
                        • Clive is for a big Australia @BB.

                          Commenter
                          Wally
                          Location
                          Flynn
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 12:39PM
                        • I do like Clive Palmer a lot more than Christine Milne. Palmer at least speaks his mind unlike the Green Puppet Milne, should call her Kermit he he

                          Commenter
                          Palmer
                          Location
                          United
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 12:40PM
                        • we will be fine...d..d..don't you worry about that!

                          Commenter
                          joh
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 12:47PM
                        • Did you ever vote for Pauline Hanson?

                          Commenter
                          Wwwish Lion
                          Location
                          Melbourne
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 12:55PM
                        • Who would put their hand up to be his minister for foreign affairs?

                          Commenter
                          doglover
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 1:01PM
                        • Clive is a buffoon and a rude. He should not be calling our biggest trading partners "mongrels". Especially not since that trading partner's military might even occupy our country in the near future. They might take offense and then take it out on local civilians.

                          Commenter
                          Dr No
                          Location
                          Sydney
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 1:03PM
                        • You must not have listened to many politicians JohnBB. Clive's just doing what independents often do. They have little direct power and just spout populist lines knowing the government of the day can't do what they say. No doubt Clive will have a few personal areas that he'll concentrate on behind the scenes, but as far as the rest of us are concerned he's just putting on a show and he's enjoying the cheers.

                          Commenter
                          Peter
                          Location
                          Oz
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 1:05PM
                        • Clive will become the defacto PM after the next election with the balance of power in both Houses. He almost has it now with his Senate votes so good practice. All he has to do is stay awake, solvent, upright and out of jail.

                          Commenter
                          mitch of ACT
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 1:16PM
                        • I can only vote for him if he sticks with mongrel and stops supporting bigger Australia. At best he is extremely unpredictable..

                          Commenter
                          xyz
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 1:34PM
                        • @Wwwish Lion
                          She was better then most of major party pollies. She would have never put a "Everything for Sale" signboard like these empty headed politicians.

                          Commenter
                          xyz
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 1:42PM
                        • @Wally...Oh..Well I take it back....Still looking...

                          @Wwwish Lion...I'd vote for Homer if it got rid of what we've got...Has Abbott let her out of jail yet?...Not sure what or why you're suggesting...Stop being weird..I told you I'm half Asian.

                          @Peter...Don't agree. It was emotive..In fact he held back IMO.

                          @xyz..Agree 100%...Sop the BAust and he'll be our next PM...

                          Commenter
                          JohnBB
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 1:59PM
                      • Smell that? Burning short positions, spiced up with the odd margin call.
                        R.

                        Ps. Shorting, CFDs, derivatives, geared up with loans, etc, are not INVESTMENTS. They are instruments for specific purposes, over very short periods. Since they are not investments, they are not meant for investors. Long term (long) investments make investors rich. The rest make BROKERS rich.

                        Commenter
                        Roadsta
                        Location
                        BV
                        Date and time
                        August 19, 2014, 12:15PM
                        • Yeah shorting the pound made me miserably wealthy beyond my dreams.

                          Commenter
                          George
                          Location
                          Soros
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 12:22PM
                        • smell what?

                          Commenter
                          dewf hart
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 12:30PM
                        • Gee well thanks for the unsolicited, unauthorised and unlicensed advice.

                          Commenter
                          If it's so easy
                          Location
                          How come you're poor
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 12:32PM
                        • Really?
                          Blindly buying and holding is just as risky.
                          QBE $35.49 Sept 2007 now low $11
                          ELD $28.30 July 2007 now 0.2cents
                          ERA $18.92 Apr 2007 now $1.30
                          RIO $124.00 May2008 now $66.24
                          NAB $44.84 Nov 2011 now $34
                          BHP $50 May 2008 now $39.50
                          TLS $9.20 Jan 1999 now $5.60
                          I could list another 50 large and medium caps off the top of my head, plus most have had capital raisings further diluting shareholders.
                          Just because people were frozen with fear during the GFC and didn't sell doesn't make them good investors, they were lucky companies were bailed out by taxpayers and central banks.

                          Commenter
                          Realty Check
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 12:51PM
                        • The basic thesis behind my comment is easy to prove, without doubt. In the long run, all share markets go up, not down. Add to that dividends, and it is clear that diversified long will beat short over time.

                          Sure, one can find any number of individual stocks that have gone down. That does not make any dent in the statements I made.

                          Just follow Buffet's 2008 bet with the uber-smart fund of hedge funds that he will beat them with a plain vanilla S&P500 long index fund. He is winning.

                          R.

                          Commenter
                          Roadsta
                          Location
                          Brisvegas
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 1:24PM
                      • Volumes still light on? a perception or theres a sense of holding back......for what

                        Commenter
                        BearshapedBull
                        Location
                        Mugpunters Lounge
                        Date and time
                        August 19, 2014, 12:15PM
                        • 10:43am: Benign weather and a lack of claims have helped Insurance Australia ...

                          With all these decades of climate change and we cannot even budge the weather just a little bit to prevent IAG from making record profits?

                          Commenter
                          Dr No
                          Location
                          Sydney
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 12:10PM
                          • A period of mild weather in one country does not falsify global records. Personally, I'm selling out of IAG in the next 6 months precisely due to this.

                            Commenter
                            Sceptical Prophet
                            Date and time
                            August 19, 2014, 12:25PM
                          • @Dr No How soon the climate-change sceptics, and those not affected, forget disasters like the Brisbane floods, Cyclone Yasi, Black Saturday bushfires in Vic, the fires in Canberra in 2003, the Blue Mountains fires last year. Insurance companies took big underwriting losses in those years and have used those losses and climate change as an excuse to increase premiums by up to 5 times and refuse cover in other areas. But keep your head in the sand. At least that way only your bum will get burned.

                            Commenter
                            mitch of ACT
                            Date and time
                            August 19, 2014, 12:56PM
                          • @mitch - I'm not really taking a position on whether the climate is actually changing or not, but the number and intensity of hurricanes in Australia and the US have actually declined in the last couple of decades.

                            And yes, we live in a country where the northern coastline is smashed by devastating hurricanes now and then. And yes, our inland regions are constantly terrified by dry weather ending up in forest fires before the rainy years arrive, at which point they flood. That's why most of us tend to live by the coast. And yes, sheep gracing did destroy a lot of the vegetation in the last 150 years, and yes it's slowly but surely growing back now.

                            Commenter
                            Dr No
                            Location
                            Sydney
                            Date and time
                            August 19, 2014, 1:12PM
                          • So Dr No, Check out:

                            http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/climo/

                            And look down the bottom at that nice bar chart they have titled:

                            Named Cyclones by Year

                            And repeat your 'intensity' statement.

                            Also, don't we call them Cyclones in Australia?

                            Commenter
                            Joe the POM
                            Location
                            Geelong
                            Date and time
                            August 19, 2014, 1:46PM
                        • I wonder what the go is with MQG. Was going to ditch these yesterday thinkig the financial planning issue and writing to tens of thousands of clients would hang over this stock for months. But can see they are up 95c a share this morning... Any clues?

                          Commenter
                          MelbMan
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 12:00PM
                          • Litigation always occurs with banks. MQG is growing very well due to increased M&A activity and increasing their share in the mortgage market. IBs are recovering from a slump, they always get hit hardest in recessions.

                            Commenter
                            Sceptical Prophet
                            Date and time
                            August 19, 2014, 12:23PM
                        • "Clive Palmer vows to block RET changes as industry fears worst"

                          Oh dear... what a headache for the COALition.

                          Commenter
                          Allan
                          Location
                          Prahran
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 11:54AM
                          • Wouldn't align myself with Clive!

                            Commenter
                            mr wong
                            Date and time
                            August 19, 2014, 12:03PM
                        • "House-price growth ‘not sustainable’"

                          Housing boom!

                          Commenter
                          Allan
                          Location
                          Prahran
                          Date and time
                          August 19, 2014, 11:49AM
                          • ASX:NST also reported today.
                            - Increased revenue by 21%
                            - Increased customer base by 132%
                            - Increased recurring revenue by 36%

                            Looking like a good data-services/cloud computing play considering how strongly companies are pushing for tech advancements.

                            All 3 of my stocks reporting today are balling - AMC, IAG, and NXT. Looking forward to CCL tomorrow.

                            Commenter
                            Sceptical Prophet
                            Date and time
                            August 19, 2014, 11:48AM
                            • Look at ASZ too,also doing very well in the cloud,,,profitable again and has good prospects I think.

                              Commenter
                              Loki
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 12:07PM
                          • Where have all the cocky shorters gone?

                            Commenter
                            Shorter stalker
                            Date and time
                            August 19, 2014, 11:47AM
                            • I am holding some SPY puts for the US market if that helps. XJO options expiry in a few days. Might be some shennigans then, but 'the big short' was a few weeks back - didn't you get the email?

                              Commenter
                              50BahtLeo
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 11:59AM
                            • Have you seen the FMG share price?

                              Commenter
                              Rusty nails
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 12:01PM
                            • Locked up in their 1 br flat in prahran

                              Commenter
                              Pete
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 12:04PM
                            • Seem to be having a red hot go at Medusa!
                              Blast!

                              Commenter
                              Ox
                              Location
                              Kensi Pk
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 12:13PM
                            • Stats say they appear to be loading up on Duet and Triton...no sure how they are travelling on TLS,looks like another call to cover.

                              Commenter
                              BearshapedBull
                              Location
                              Mugpunters Lounge
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 12:46PM
                          • Really GWA? Using comic sans for the letter fronting your annual results presentation. Come see me if you want someone to do your design work for you so that it looks less like a primary school kid who just figured out how to change the font on MS Word

                            Commenter
                            Gee Pee
                            Location
                            SYD
                            Date and time
                            August 19, 2014, 11:39AM
                            • Oh man, they used Comic Sans on their report? I would sell my ownership just because of that.

                              Commenter
                              Sceptical Prophet
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 12:00PM
                          • re the 11:22 article re performance of companies reporting today - you have missed the +15.39% rise of Chandler Macleod (CMG)

                            Commenter
                            Andrew
                            Date and time
                            August 19, 2014, 11:38AM
                            • outside ASX200 so they dont count....

                              Commenter
                              BearshapedBull
                              Location
                              Mugpunters Lounge
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 12:33PM
                          • JBH anyone?
                            Why is it copping such a belting lately?

                            Commenter
                            JBH
                            Date and time
                            August 19, 2014, 11:35AM
                            • buy

                              Commenter
                              The sheep
                              Location
                              are moving on to greener pastures
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 12:08PM
                            • Tablet sales, etc. expected to worsen. I bailed the other day and took up more LNG. Feeling much better.

                              Commenter
                              Human Trader
                              Location
                              Sydney
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 12:12PM
                            • ex-dividend tomorrow

                              Commenter
                              JBH
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 12:18PM
                            • Because everything they sell is 30% cheaper on eBay?

                              Commenter
                              Allan
                              Location
                              Praran
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 12:37PM
                            • As one analysts said, they rely on electonic gadgets (phones, tvs, etc) to underpin the business and both these techs are pretty saturated in the market. i.e. past growth ain't future growth.

                              Commenter
                              Peter
                              Location
                              Oz
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 1:01PM
                            • @JBH - ex div 2moro, So why sell without dividend today?

                              @allan - ebay has been around for a while..earnings for JBH always sound. Nothing has changed.

                              Commenter
                              JBH2
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 1:12PM
                            • Same earnings. more stores. What's up with that?

                              Oh and now there's Aliexpress, 60% cheaper than JB HiFi.

                              Commenter
                              Allan
                              Location
                              Prahran
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 1:16PM
                            • @Peter true, but it's the best indicator of future growth.

                              Commenter
                              JBH2
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 1:21PM
                            • Earnings increasing nicely every year.
                              Point taken with Aliexpress though.

                              Commenter
                              JBH2
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 1:28PM
                            • damn the word "oh" makes its way back
                              its sooo spoilt bratty told ya so

                              Commenter
                              BearshapedBull
                              Location
                              Political Fallout Shelter
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 1:56PM
                          • Re MND 10.49am.
                            In spite of analysts forecasts of the end of mining services,MND have continued to pay fully franked dividends of over $1.20 for the last 3 years. At the current price around $16 this is a total return of over 10% with a high probability of continuing in the future.
                            Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

                            Commenter
                            Loki
                            Date and time
                            August 19, 2014, 11:20AM
                            • Yep agreed @Loki,been a holder on and off over last 3 years ,some issues with latest LNG delay till March [from the inside] prolly at least 2 more years to run divd wise.

                              Commenter
                              BearshapedBull
                              Location
                              Political Fallout Shelter
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 3:26PM
                          • what was that?
                            aww yeah straight thru 5600 points

                            Commenter
                            BearshapedBull
                            Location
                            Mugpunters Lounge
                            Date and time
                            August 19, 2014, 11:16AM
                            • The XJO AUG 5600 calls were 0.06 last week. Now 0.31 bid.

                              Commenter
                              50BahtLeo
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 11:27AM
                          • IAG
                            I like the 26c div for a total of 39c. 6.2% yield on yesterday's closing price! Eat em up!

                            Commenter
                            It's All About Making Money
                            Location
                            Lennox Hd
                            Date and time
                            August 19, 2014, 10:43AM
                            • I am just a newbie. Just noticed that QBE is on trading halt as they are going for capital raising. Could anyone advise me what sort of affect I can expect on its share price once it comes out of halt. Thanx

                              Commenter
                              yippy
                              Location
                              sydney
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 10:33AM
                              • If insto's get stock at a lower price (usually the case to entice them to take up the offer), you can expect the SP to fall.

                                Commenter
                                50BahtLeo
                                Date and time
                                August 19, 2014, 11:33AM
                              • Generally investors do not like capital raisings. More so when one investor class (or new investors, like institutions) get special treatment.
                                Expect the price to fall.
                                R.

                                Commenter
                                Roadsta
                                Location
                                BV
                                Date and time
                                August 19, 2014, 12:06PM
                              • QBE is a terrible company anyway. Multiple "one-off" impairments causing poor performance results in a time when the insurance industry is booming (SUN and IAG all posting amazing results).

                                Commenter
                                Sceptical Prophet
                                Date and time
                                August 19, 2014, 12:13PM
                              • hmmmmm... Looks like I will have to take a hit tomorrow or whenever it comes out of halt. I hold 2000 shares@10.60, I thought the bad result is already built- in the SP and it should go up slightly especially 15c dividend around the corner but probably I was wrong. In the hindsight, I should have probably disposed them off last week when it was fetching 10.80 -10.90. Anyway, thanks guys for your replies.

                                Commenter
                                yippy
                                Location
                                sydney
                                Date and time
                                August 19, 2014, 1:41PM
                            • Buy 2500 AMM @ 1.94 might look to accum at these levels.Looking at SHL as well but already got pets in PRY and RHC.

                              Commenter
                              BearshapedBull
                              Location
                              Mugpunters Lounge
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 10:31AM
                              • do you think it can get back to 2.30?

                                Commenter
                                nax
                                Date and time
                                August 19, 2014, 10:51AM
                              • yes i do but i'm a glass half full type.
                                EPS up,ROE up DIVD up whats not to like.

                                Commenter
                                BearshapedBull
                                Location
                                Mugpunters Lounge
                                Date and time
                                August 19, 2014, 11:09AM
                            • Here we go again. Two Fridays ago Dow down 80 and ASX down 80. Today Dow up 175 ASX up 20. It just keeps happening we go down as much but never back up as much. Been going on now for five years. I don't care if we don't rise as much as long as we don't fall as much but that's not the way the ball keeps bouncing.

                              Commenter
                              Peter
                              Location
                              Sydney
                              Date and time
                              August 19, 2014, 10:22AM
                                • Just had a quick look on Bloomberg. Returns for 1 year are:

                                  DOW +14.3%
                                  ASX200 +16.0%

                                  Commenter
                                  Life Is Good
                                  Location
                                  The Real World
                                  Date and time
                                  August 19, 2014, 10:45AM
                                • But the $A dropped 10%. Oops.

                                  Commenter
                                  Penny drops
                                  Date and time
                                  August 19, 2014, 12:02PM
                                • Nope, the AUD was USD $0.91 on 19/08/13

                                  Commenter
                                  TP
                                  Date and time
                                  August 19, 2014, 12:44PM
                              • seven days in the black in a row...when's this bs gonna end!

                                what correction?

                                Commenter
                                no banks .. no party!
                                Location
                                what correction?
                                Date and time
                                August 19, 2014, 10:22AM
                                • "Steel and mining group Arrium has reported an 83 per cent jump in full-year underlying net profit to $296 million as growth in iron ore exports boosted earnings."

                                  I forget Kyprios what is my long entry on ARI?

                                  Commenter
                                  Allan
                                  Location
                                  Prahran
                                  Date and time
                                  August 19, 2014, 10:21AM
                                  • 76c well done. Now how about some ownership for LNG $2.90.

                                    Commenter
                                    Kyprios
                                    Date and time
                                    August 19, 2014, 10:34AM
                                  • All my trades are posted you should know that by now. Last add to short 4.03. Did you write that down?

                                    Commenter
                                    Allan
                                    Location
                                    Prahran
                                    Date and time
                                    August 19, 2014, 10:48AM
                                  • Just what i thought no losers when it comes to the fantasy trader ;) $10 on ARI looking good.

                                    Commenter
                                    Kyprios
                                    Date and time
                                    August 19, 2014, 10:52AM
                                • "Victims of the Commonwealth Bank’s financial planning scandal have slammed as ‘‘obscene’’ and ‘‘devastating’’ the multimillion-dollar pay packets pocketed by executives in charge of the troubled division"

                                  Banks behaving badly. Again.

                                  Commenter
                                  Allan
                                  Location
                                  Prahran
                                  Date and time
                                  August 19, 2014, 10:20AM
                                  • Yep alot of focus on the reward for just plain scamming people out of their hard earned with the attitude of ,they should have known better at the time of signing up.

                                    Commenter
                                    BearshapedBull
                                    Location
                                    Mugpunters Lounge
                                    Date and time
                                    August 19, 2014, 10:43AM
                                  • Some time ago I banked a fairly large cheque in my CBA account. I was asked if I wished to get in touch with one of the banks' financial planners, if I would mind if they contact me and set up a meeting. Categorically I said...NO, absolutely NOT. How much did I save? How much better am I? Much, much better. No CBA advice allowed with this guy. One needs to make a wise choice when it comes to financial advice.

                                    Commenter
                                    No CBA advice allowed here
                                    Location
                                    Sydney
                                    Date and time
                                    August 19, 2014, 11:12AM
                                  • Tax the $750k margin at 150%. They then start to go backwards effectively putting a cap on these obscene wages..

                                    Why can't the government solve ANYTHING?...That BS of having the shareholders sack the board was never ever going to work. Just more spin by then Howards LNP.

                                    Commenter
                                    JohnBB
                                    Date and time
                                    August 19, 2014, 11:31AM
                                  • @No Advice was this before or after the unfolding of the current circumstances?

                                    Commenter
                                    BearshapedBull
                                    Location
                                    Mugpunters Lounge
                                    Date and time
                                    August 19, 2014, 11:31AM
                                • The more I see of Clive Palmer the more I like him.

                                  Commenter
                                  Liu Xiaobo
                                  Location
                                  Let me out! I want to collect my Nobel Peace Prize.
                                  Date and time
                                  August 19, 2014, 10:18AM
                                  • Wel, there's a lot to see.........:-)

                                    Commenter
                                    Life Is Good
                                    Location
                                    The Real World
                                    Date and time
                                    August 19, 2014, 10:46AM
                                • BNO a maiden profit but from a big brother handout from Merck of 20million and more to come,looks to be interesting again....r&d to continue unabated and i guess that cash burn rate can always be topped up by the overseer again and again.Watchng but not jumping.

                                  Commenter
                                  BearshapedBull
                                  Location
                                  Mugpunters Lounge
                                  Date and time
                                  August 19, 2014, 10:17AM
                                  • 9:51am
                                    “Overall weakness in global oil prices signal that demand has not really picked up”

                                    What a redundant statement lol.

                                    Commenter
                                    Sceptical Prophet
                                    Date and time
                                    August 19, 2014, 9:59AM
                                    • If demand for oil hits the wall in China we could easily have oil prices back where they were in the late 90s, around $20 - 30 a barrel. If that was to happen I'd sell oil stocks - only Saudi Aramco is still profitable at those levels. And they have the ability to increase capacity.

                                      Commenter
                                      Dr No
                                      Location
                                      Sydney
                                      Date and time
                                      August 19, 2014, 10:22AM
                                    • Disagree. A drop in price could be due to lower demand or greater supply (or other reasons!). Lower demand for oil could signal lower growth although it could be due to numerous other reasons (eg high unemployment means people less willing to spend on heating; warmer winters)

                                      Commenter
                                      Life Is Good
                                      Location
                                      The Real World
                                      Date and time
                                      August 19, 2014, 10:32AM
                                    • True, economics-wise the only other reason for oil prices to be weak would be an increase in supply. I subconsciously considered supply to be reasonably fixed as it would be unusual for supply to suddenly skyrocket enough to push down prices.

                                      Commenter
                                      Sceptical Prophet
                                      Date and time
                                      August 19, 2014, 12:09PM
                                  • Good news for ARI,a great result considering and shows that having a decent business model in trying market conditions ,with the right management, they can get through and actually turn a profit.

                                    Commenter
                                    BearshapedBull
                                    Location
                                    Mugpunters Lounge
                                    Date and time
                                    August 19, 2014, 9:58AM
                                    • Chandler Macleod (CMG) reported.... 1.8c div on a 32.5c stock.... Plus on-market buyback!

                                      This 1.8c div is 5.5% franked up to 7.9% .... this is just ONE DIV, not yearly... and going ex next week... ENJOY :)

                                      Commenter
                                      GS
                                      Date and time
                                      August 19, 2014, 9:46AM
                                      • @GS - Yes good to see the div stay high and particularly good to see the share buy back. It will be interesting to how they work the SBB, at fixed price levels, each day, or intermittently.

                                        Commenter
                                        It's All About Making Money
                                        Location
                                        Lennox hd
                                        Date and time
                                        August 19, 2014, 10:09AM
                                      • Hey you said stocks go down when you mention them on here this one bounced 15%...bull trap or what?

                                        Commenter
                                        BearshapedBull
                                        Location
                                        Mugpunters Lounge
                                        Date and time
                                        August 19, 2014, 10:27AM
                                      • @Making Money... yeah me too. It's to start 14 days from now and end in 12 months. Millions of shares to be bought on-market instead of off :)

                                        @BSB... this stock is soooo oversold from a profit downgrade earlier in the year. Total over-reaction and now it's catch up time and value buying. The div in the 40c range is still quite amazing!

                                        Commenter
                                        GS
                                        Date and time
                                        August 19, 2014, 10:36AM
                                    • "The Chinese government wants to bring workers here to destroy our wage system ... they want to take over our ports and get our resources for free. So far they've shifted $200 million worth of iron ore out of this country without paying for it." - Clive Palmer

                                      All true enough!

                                      Successive Australian governments have been complicit in the takeover of our economy by foreign governments and corporations for years.

                                      Commenter
                                      Fred
                                      Date and time
                                      August 19, 2014, 9:23AM
                                      • Australia's economy is basically held up by foreign investors right now. Destroying the AUD's competitiveness to take advantage of something short term and finite like resources was a very myopic decision.

                                        Luckily, investors still like our properties for some reason.

                                        Commenter
                                        Sceptical Prophet
                                        Date and time
                                        August 19, 2014, 9:44AM
                                      • not to mention what they're doing to our property prices.
                                        GO CLIVE!

                                        Commenter
                                        no banks .. no party!
                                        Location
                                        GO CLIVE!
                                        Date and time
                                        August 19, 2014, 9:44AM
                                      • Support Team China...and you shall receive.

                                        Commenter
                                        Player
                                        Location
                                        Sydney
                                        Date and time
                                        August 19, 2014, 9:59AM
                                      • CFE is another company that has had problems with the Chinese. $80m dispute eventually settled for $50m after many, many months.

                                        Commenter
                                        mitch of ACT
                                        Date and time
                                        August 19, 2014, 9:59AM
                                      • MGX also had issues

                                        Commenter
                                        mushroom
                                        Date and time
                                        August 19, 2014, 10:09AM
                                      • Nothing else to do than trade the distortion - buy offshore assets or move overseas or both - forget the politics make money!

                                        Commenter
                                        Greg
                                        Date and time
                                        August 19, 2014, 10:14AM
                                      • @mushy MGX i have issues but i've run out of tissues,still waiting for the management to make some call with all the cash they're hoarding. sitting on their hands.

                                        Commenter
                                        BearshapedBull
                                        Location
                                        Mugpunters Lounge
                                        Date and time
                                        August 19, 2014, 10:38AM
                                      • they need to move with that cash BSB
                                        or it will evaporate

                                        Commenter
                                        mushy
                                        Date and time
                                        August 19, 2014, 11:06AM
                                      • Clive's got my vote. First politician I've ever heard say it how it is.

                                        Commenter
                                        JohnBB
                                        Date and time
                                        August 19, 2014, 12:13PM

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