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Markets Live: CBA record not enough

Date

Patrick Commins, Jens Meyer

Shares fell, pulled down by the IT sector and CBA as investors decided the bank's record profit wasn't enough to justify the high valuation.

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  • He has his fellow travellers in Australia though, some of them very regular contributors on here. I guess if your standard long term prediction is that a particular market sector will crash one day, maybe that day will come....one day. Bit more problematical if you say 'by this Xmas' though, which most long term bears avoid doing, including those from Prahran.

    Commenter
    rudy
    Date and time
    August 13, 2014, 4:54PM
  • In Bris / GC - basic starting price for BC + Rates is around $5500 a year. Not much floating under that. NEW units with services, well just add to that! Add some internal maintenance costs. Little Landlords in SEQLD would be doing it VERY tough in this market. Unit home owners who live within, well, these people are paying a fortune to live in the concrete walls and lids.

    Commenter
    Liberator
    Location
    SEQLD
    Date and time
    August 13, 2014, 4:50PM
    • So Irish Phil replies to a scenario which OP spilled out a set of numbers.
      Buy 750k, sold after 3 years 940k.
      Total cost of owning(strata, rates, INTEREST paid, etc) is calculated = 935k at the point of selling. Clearly this is an apartment/townhouse/villa etc.

      And Allan quickly jumped on a thread and said you can rent a 1.2 millions HOUSE for 600 p/w which is totally irrelevant.

      Commenter
      Curious
      Location
      observer
      Date and time
      August 13, 2014, 4:33PM
      • Of course it's relevant.

        Oh and se Davo's comment below re rents.

        Commenter
        Allan
        Location
        Prahran
        Date and time
        August 13, 2014, 4:59PM
    • I pay 12c/min mobile rates even to most overseas countries and no flagfall. Telstra have a long way to fall.

      Commenter
      Allan
      Location
      Prahran
      Date and time
      August 13, 2014, 4:25PM
      • Alfa75 has a new job: http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/hotel-to-begin-testing-botlr-a-robotic-bellhop-20140813-103fc0.html

        Commenter
        Allan
        Location
        Prahran
        Date and time
        August 13, 2014, 4:22PM
        • "$600/wk rents a $1.2M+ house. Your sums are wrong."
          Irish Phil replies to a case which OP bought an apartment so your claim is irrelevant. Pretty sure 600/week doesn't get you a 1.2 millions apartment.

          Commenter
          got brain
          Date and time
          August 13, 2014, 4:20PM
          • Now in the interests of being proved wrong, I'm expecting a good result out of TLS tomorrow. It's market dominance and the growing hunger of Australians for mobile data should ensure that. However given how the share prices of other companies reporting good results have been trashed, I'm expecting the same to happen to TLS. Might even be worth topping up.

            Commenter
            mitch of ACT
            Date and time
            August 13, 2014, 3:55PM
            • "surprisingly weak Chinese monetary data "

              China's internal debt is already mathematically impossible to pay back. Growth has been pulled forward for years ie it is higher than the underlying organic growth.

              The only way to go back into balance is to have lower than organic growth for the next decade.

              Bad news for the country that hitched their wagon to resources/China.

              Housing boom!

              Commenter
              Allan
              Location
              Prahran
              Date and time
              August 13, 2014, 3:55PM
              • Real FT wages falling, hours worked falling, economy slowing, basket case government, resources boom over...

                Housing boom!

                Commenter
                Allan
                Location
                Prahran
                Date and time
                August 13, 2014, 3:51PM
                • Bank says people should take out larger mortgages. Shock! Horror!

                  Banks behaving badly. Again.

                  Commenter
                  Allan
                  Location
                  Prahran
                  Date and time
                  August 13, 2014, 3:50PM
                  • 50c cost to process a late payment, fee charged, $20.

                    Unconscionable behaviour by CBA and the other banks. Profits from ripping off vulnerable pensioners, unemployed and low income earners.

                    Bank behaving badly. Again.

                    Commenter
                    Allan
                    Location
                    Prahran
                    Date and time
                    August 13, 2014, 3:48PM
                    • Banks making nearly $9B profit. To put you pay with them, $5 per month account keeping fee. Please. Got a mortgage, that will be $10 per month thank you!

                      I do not bank within the top 8 - they are jokers and have you all believe they offer great competitive services...

                      Commenter
                      Liberator
                      Location
                      SEQLD
                      Date and time
                      August 13, 2014, 4:30PM
                  • Go Putin smash that evil US regime

                    Commenter
                    kman
                    Date and time
                    August 13, 2014, 3:43PM
                    • Beginning to think CBA's SP reaction today is the catalyst for the 10% correction we don't necessarily want.

                      Commenter
                      what chunder
                      Date and time
                      August 13, 2014, 3:36PM
                        • SGP lets put that australand baby to bed and move on....and up.

                          Commenter
                          Bearshapedbull
                          Location
                          Mugpunters lounge
                          Date and time
                          August 13, 2014, 3:20PM
                          • Anyone following CPU today? SP now down 6.5%, a tad oversold I think.

                            Commenter
                            JJ
                            Location
                            NSW
                            Date and time
                            August 13, 2014, 3:16PM
                            • buy some at the close then!

                              Commenter
                              AJ
                              Date and time
                              August 13, 2014, 3:42PM
                            • I like it. Short at 12.50. As posted.

                              Commenter
                              Allan
                              Location
                              Prahran
                              Date and time
                              August 13, 2014, 3:43PM
                            • @AJ, I should have, opted for some BXB instead. But one to keep an eye on tomorrow.

                              @Allan, well played!

                              Commenter
                              JJ
                              Location
                              NSW
                              Date and time
                              August 13, 2014, 4:41PM
                          • comment at 2.37 pm

                            It is becoming increasingly evident that India will give our mining sector a much needed boost going into the second half of this decade and beyond.

                            I trust our Governments (both current and future) won't waste this opportunity!

                            Commenter
                            Allan Mitchell
                            Location
                            SEQLD
                            Date and time
                            August 13, 2014, 3:14PM
                            • Quite correct indeed. Furthermore, we need to show our great support for India in the way of free-trade and free migration with this great nation. I would like to see much increases in immigration from India, especially in QLD (similar weather & temperatures), around 50-100 million asap to be followed by Chinese immigration around similar figures. We need to give as well as take. I'm sure many people would agree with these immediate steps.

                              Commenter
                              Mack
                              Location
                              Sydney
                              Date and time
                              August 13, 2014, 4:05PM
                          • SUN was shining today its a star after all nice one @harry hope yr smiling with it

                            Commenter
                            Bearshapedbull
                            Location
                            Mugpunters lounge
                            Date and time
                            August 13, 2014, 3:13PM
                            • Thanks BSB even a bit better than I expected.

                              Commenter
                              Harry Rogers
                              Date and time
                              August 13, 2014, 3:59PM
                          • What's the go with ARI? Third chance to get in maybe? Any one shorting this?

                            Commenter
                            ;)
                            Date and time
                            August 13, 2014, 3:10PM
                            • Okay, I am really tired of this investment property example, so here is the answer:
                              1.) Don't buy. Have $150k in the bank, let's say earn 5% interest, grows by ~$25k over 3 years. Pay rent of $95k ($600 pw). End position is $80k in the bank.
                              2.) Buy & sell after 3 years. Get $150k equity back, plus $5k profit (after all costs – per original example). End position is $155k.
                              Buying has left them $75k better off.
                              Case closed?
                              =

                              Commenter
                              Irish Phil
                              Date and time
                              August 13, 2014, 3:01PM
                              • @boom boom are you reading this ?

                                Commenter
                                got brain
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 3:46PM
                              • $600/wk rents a $1.2M+ house. Your sums are wrong.

                                Commenter
                                Allan
                                Location
                                Prahran
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 3:59PM
                              • Except that if you count the rent you must count the interest paid - model assumes int paid is equivalent to rent and so get out flat is about same plus or minus 5k so who cares!

                                Commenter
                                Greg
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 4:08PM
                              • @Allan - not in Sydney you don't. Not with in the 15kms radius anyway.

                                Commenter
                                got brain
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 4:12PM
                              • "Except that if you count the rent you must count the interest paid"

                                you forgot that the 5k profit is after interest already factored in.

                                Commenter
                                got brain
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 4:23PM
                              • Allan: are you dreaming. Your idea of Sydney rents are quite wide of the market. $600 pw will get you a $600k-$800k 2 bed apartment.
                                I pay $720 pw for a 2 bed house, probably "worth" $900k-$1m.

                                Commenter
                                Irish Phil
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 4:26PM
                              • That's because it's mostly flats so triple the depreciation. Same net result.

                                Commenter
                                Allan
                                Location
                                Prahran
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 4:26PM
                              • @Greg: the interest paid was already included in the original post to come up with the $5k profit on the purchase and sale.

                                Commenter
                                Irish Phil
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 4:27PM
                              • @got brain: ESPECIALLY in Sydney, returns to price slipping quite dramatically. My current place, 2 bed unit, top of Balmoral slopes, panoramic middle harbour views, <10 ks to city, agent says current value just over $1m, my rent just risen by whopping $20 pw after 18 months to $570 pw. Go figure!

                                Commenter
                                Davo
                                Location
                                Sydney
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 4:33PM
                            • Does anyone know when MMS reports?

                              Thinking the result will be good

                              Commenter
                              clive
                              Date and time
                              August 13, 2014, 2:30PM
                              • Tuesday August 26

                                Commenter
                                AJ
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 3:49PM
                            • I read comments every day from jaded ALP members about how the budget will smash the economy and lead us into depression and then today I read Ian Narev saying the budget must pass and the uncertainty must end. Not sure the man heading Australia's biggest company would be saying such things if the outcomes predicted by the ALP members were plausible. With the exception of tinkering uni fees and scrapping the PPL, it's time for the ALP and PUP to get out of the way and start making the reforms this country needs to improve economic sustainability. Waiting for the replies from the ALP members to let me know they know more than Narev.

                              Commenter
                              Logical
                              Location
                              Thinker
                              Date and time
                              August 13, 2014, 2:24PM
                              • I once had a boss who used to say to me "don't be logical with me son"!

                                For the record I will be logical and agree with the CBA boss

                                Commenter
                                clive
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 2:34PM
                              • Are you talking about super tax reform, negative gearing tax reduction reform, Capital Gain tax reform.? If yes , surely will second the comment. Then we can discuss company tax reduction also as a total package ...

                                Commenter
                                Up and Down is Norm
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 2:36PM
                              • that would be the budget that targets poor, disabled, long term unemployed and young ppl.
                                yep, get out the way, private school boys commin thru!

                                Commenter
                                j
                                Location
                                syd
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 2:49PM
                              • Up and down, I'm talking about what is on the agenda now. Hopefully the things you have mentioned are up for discussion and possible reform along with the GST in the future. But for the time being nobody is talking about that. ALP missed a huge opportunity when they effectively ignored the Henry review and bungled the 3 or 4 recommendations they picked out of 138.

                                Commenter
                                Logical
                                Location
                                Thinker
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 3:08PM
                              • Lets see - is this the bank which benefits on increased mortgages 10% a year increase in house price with govt supported property speculation policies such as negative gearing (6$ billion per year), discounted capital gains tax, unlimited foreigh property buyers, removal of FOFA, super fund tax deductions unlimited for wealthy climates, high use of 457 and outsourced workers, loans for FBT rort cars? And then bank guarantees?
                                Where is the Budget controlling any of this corporate welfare?.
                                Sounds like the govt is helping the banks enough?

                                Commenter
                                BCA self interest
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 3:12PM
                              • @Logical Narev and others of his ilk are vested interests pushing their own barrow. Business hates uncertainty. There is very little in this Budget that impacts directly on business so the short-sighted in the business community can't see what all of the fuss is about. However there are massive indirect impacts on business in the Budget. The Budget threatens to cut the disposable incomes of a whole range of consumers by cuts to pensions, benefits, rebates, subsidies and the imposition of additional taxes. That's why consumer confidence is falling. The cuts to disposable incomes will reduce spending, particularly in the retail sector. Business turnover will fall. Business profits will fall. Tax collections will fall. Unemployment will continue to rise. Then business will scream for stimulus but the gov't will have no spare cash because payments to the army of newly unemployed will have swallowed it all. Now you know why the gov't wants to make the dole so hard to get.

                                Commenter
                                mitch of ACT
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 3:15PM
                              • By the way in my 20+ years working with gov't in the finance area as a public servant, contractor and consultant I have worked directly and indirectly on 20+ Budgets, MYEFOs, PEFOs, economic statements and the like. I have seen the consequences of ill-thought out Budget proposals. In my 20+ years I have never seen a Budget as bad as this one. Keating & Costello were masters of the art. Hockey is a rank amateur and it shows.

                                Commenter
                                mitch of ACT
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 3:18PM
                              • Mitch, you sound very much like a public servant (I say this as a former public servant). The public service is full of people who think they know everything but are generally very narrow thinkers unable to look past modelling and their own biases. I will side with the head of Australia's biggest company (who you seem to think has a great deal to lose from the budget) over a politically biased public servant. Of course you know more than Narev though.

                                Commenter
                                Logical
                                Location
                                Thinker
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 4:04PM
                              • @Logical, I worked for govt's of both colours without fear, favour or bias (well not too much). Good policy speaks for itself and doesn't need to be bullied through the Parliament. Hockey was so ashamed of the consequences of his Budget that he broke with long-standing tradition and refused to publish the normal impact tables.

                                Commenter
                                mitch of ACT
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 4:18PM
                              • Mitch - I would like to agree but cannot. I challenge anyone in Australia to refinance a $500K mortgage, with a $125K personal side debt (with no asset to back said side debt) AND having an income that can realistically only afford a $250K mortgage to start with. That is the same comparison (in layman's). You see... the government (incl State's) is trading insolvent.

                                A recession would have been better 6 years ago, instead, Labor propped up the Ponzi and here we are. Debt laden and unable to reconcile future expenditure with any foreseeable Gov income...

                                Commenter
                                Liberator
                                Location
                                SEQLD
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 4:27PM
                              • I haven't seen such ALP commentary about the budget causing a recession, only about the unfair impact on rich v poor. I call straw man.

                                Commenter
                                rudy
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 4:49PM
                            • What continues to bewilder me is how a stock like AMM can post a great result like it did and go down 5%.

                              Anyone?

                              Commenter
                              motley mob
                              Date and time
                              August 13, 2014, 2:21PM
                              • Future outlook?

                                Commenter
                                Irish Phil
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 2:38PM
                              • Its on my watch list, in saying that probably a lot of others as well :) happy trading.

                                Commenter
                                Happy
                                Location
                                Trader
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 2:40PM
                              • Lucky dip as usual cant pick a winner on results...anymore

                                Commenter
                                Bearshapedbull
                                Location
                                Mugpunters lounge
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 3:31PM
                            • Its time for a super profits tax on all businesses operating in Australia.

                              Commenter
                              Josh
                              Location
                              Perth
                              Date and time
                              August 13, 2014, 2:07PM
                              • thewagster, they havent got enough money to fix their waste stations, reckon we are looking at a write down.

                                Commenter
                                Screech
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 1:54PM
                                • What did they do with all their money?

                                  Commenter
                                  Red Rooster
                                  Location
                                  Number Crunching
                                  Date and time
                                  August 13, 2014, 2:34PM
                                • Haha, silly comment from me. What i meant was they havent allocated enough cash to the remediation of the landfill assets. Could cop a bit of a hit initially, but not expecting too much.

                                  Commenter
                                  Screech
                                  Date and time
                                  August 13, 2014, 3:00PM
                              • very difficult to trade today. just washing around.

                                Commenter
                                j
                                Location
                                syd
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 1:53PM
                                • You didn't make a few bob of AMM?

                                  Commenter
                                  Bouncy
                                  Location
                                  Bouncy
                                  Date and time
                                  August 13, 2014, 2:53PM
                              • pass the red,

                                "Sorry again, but the comparison needs to be with where they'd have been otherwise. If they'd been renting for 3 years their bank balance would be a lot lower."

                                Nope, as renters they retain their $150k stake/deposit so their balance would have been better off had they rented for this period

                                Commenter
                                tom
                                Date and time
                                August 13, 2014, 1:46PM
                                  • They would have had to use that money to pay rent. What would their rent have been to rent an equivalent home? You can't do the maths using only some of the facts and ignoring others.

                                    Commenter
                                    doglover
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 1:55PM
                                  • Huh?!? When they sell they get the $150k equity back, after settlement of the mortgage.

                                    Commenter
                                    Irish Phil
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 2:04PM
                                  • Despite boom boom's friends made the "not recommended investment strategy" ie. buy and sell RE in a short term (3 years). They still didn't lose any money.What's exactly is the problem? How is it a bad investment when it returns something ? It's just not good enough.

                                    Comparing a bad investment strategy to a safe investment strategy (bank interest) as an attempt to bring down a sound investment strategy (RE in a long term) is ridiculous.

                                    Commenter
                                    got brain
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 2:27PM
                                  • why are we still hung up on this? who wants to talk about failed investors? they bought and sold within 3 years... hello? costs of buying + costs of selling make property a long term investment. Lots of money to be made in property, lots of money to be made in shares... now go away!

                                    Commenter
                                    Happy
                                    Location
                                    Trader
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 2:56PM
                                • Anyone got any opinions (conjecture) on the TPI trading halt?

                                  Commenter
                                  thewagster
                                  Date and time
                                  August 13, 2014, 1:41PM
                                  • Slight increase before halt make me think it could be positive

                                    Commenter
                                    Red Rooster
                                    Location
                                    Number Crunching
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 2:12PM
                                  • Wish you were right, but looking at the notice it cant be good. Clearly havent put enough cash aside imo. Hoping it isnt material, but no doubt looking at a small downgrade at best.

                                    Commenter
                                    Screech
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 2:26PM
                                • Was wondering why WBC was up while the other 3 big banks where down?

                                  @Mitch, anyone?

                                  Commenter
                                  Allan Mitchell
                                  Location
                                  SEQLD
                                  Date and time
                                  August 13, 2014, 1:32PM
                                  • @Allan, each bank running their own race today instead of tied together as they usually are. The CBA result is the likely catalyst for that.

                                    Commenter
                                    mitch of ACT
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 1:55PM
                                • Brave is the man to call LNG a sell, but on a technical basis, I see it forming a double top over the last fortnight, and for me that is a good time to sell. So I have.

                                  LNG, what a great stock you have been.

                                  Commenter
                                  Learner
                                  Location
                                  Melbourne
                                  Date and time
                                  August 13, 2014, 1:30PM
                                  • I concur and will short it at $3.90.

                                    Commenter
                                    Allan Mitchell
                                    Location
                                    SEQLD
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 1:58PM
                                • bought 9000 @ $1.86 and sold 30 minutes later for $1.895

                                  profit $280...nice hourly rate if I could do it all the time!

                                  Commenter
                                  clive
                                  Date and time
                                  August 13, 2014, 1:24PM
                                  • this was a reply to @Happy Trader re AMM

                                    Commenter
                                    clive
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 1:51PM
                                  • nice work! was looking at long term. down on a yearly low, hitting targets all the way, why not is the question, might have to look into them a bit deeper.

                                    Commenter
                                    Happy
                                    Location
                                    Trader
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 2:31PM
                                  • Well done@clive you 1/2 hr trader you

                                    Commenter
                                    Bearshapedbull
                                    Location
                                    Mugpunters lounge
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 3:26PM
                                • Daxman is bored...

                                  Commenter
                                  Daxman
                                  Location
                                  Sydney
                                  Date and time
                                  August 13, 2014, 12:53PM
                                  • pull up ya dax man

                                    Commenter
                                    Allan Mitchell
                                    Location
                                    SEQLD
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 1:46PM
                                  • Do a google images search for "squirrels"; that will entertain for a few moments

                                    Commenter
                                    Elric
                                    Location
                                    Melnibone
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 2:04PM
                                • Makes you wonder WHY abbott gave billions of dollars to the banks before..strange strange man.

                                  Commenter
                                  Steeden
                                  Location
                                  Ballina
                                  Date and time
                                  August 13, 2014, 12:24PM
                                  • When did he give them any money? Please explain [sic]!

                                    Commenter
                                    Wwwish Lion
                                    Location
                                    Melbourne
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 12:49PM
                                  • Makes you wonder why Abbott is spending $250 million putting chaplains in schools to replace people who actually have training with children.

                                    No wait, makes you wonder why Abbott exists at all.

                                    Commenter
                                    Sceptical Prophet
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 1:06PM
                                  • @Sceptical Abbott exists because it is better to suffer a brief time in this life than an eternity in the next.

                                    Commenter
                                    mitch of ACT
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 1:20PM
                                  • With all due respect I think Abbott is doing a good job considering the unfair and unfounded biased commentary against him!

                                    Aussies love the underdog and I would not be surprised if the tide turns in his favour.

                                    Commenter
                                    Allan Mitchell
                                    Location
                                    SEQLD
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 1:39PM
                                  • Swan n Rudd you mean?
                                    sound chaps
                                    we must have financial stability

                                    Commenter
                                    vested
                                    Location
                                    interest
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 1:41PM
                                  • @Wwwish the dilution of the FOFA reforms is a huge gift to the banks. Worthy of an ICAC enquiry or RC to look at the circumstances behind that. But we'll have to wait until after the next election .

                                    Commenter
                                    mitch of ACT
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 1:50PM
                                  • I wan't aware that Tony Abbott gave billions to the banks . As I own over $600,000 in bank shares it's great. The rich should get richer.

                                    Commenter
                                    Heinrich
                                    Location
                                    Bunbury
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 2:15PM
                                  • Well done on not going close to answering Lion's question Mitch. The original comment was ridiculous.

                                    Commenter
                                    Sticks
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 2:28PM
                                  • As much as Aussies love an underdog, I'm pretty sure Abbott's most positive contribution to Australia is inspiring everyone to pay more attention politics so we can get rid of him.

                                    He really isn't an intelligent person. It's a wonder he has a public position. But, well ... sh*t happens, right?

                                    (I feel like adding more references to dumb things he's said but I'll stick to that one).

                                    Commenter
                                    Sceptical Prophet
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 2:53PM
                                  • @mitch, agree with you on the FOFA stuff making it easier for the banks to produce profits. It is not giving them money though. Giving away money is more like pink batts or the school buildings funding under labor.

                                    Commenter
                                    Wwwish Lion
                                    Location
                                    Melbourne
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 3:26PM
                                • @11:55am the graph on wage inflation. Where's any evidence of the "wages explosion" that Abetz was on about. One day, just one day, I would like to see a statement by the Lieberals borne out by actual real, live data. Their Budget was framed on such dodgy statements and preconceptions so no wonder it will never pass.

                                  Commenter
                                  mitch of ACT
                                  Date and time
                                  August 13, 2014, 12:13PM
                                    • And to add to that, many e/ees in the Public Service being offered wage increases well below inflation. If they won't quit or take a VR then starve them out. Eventually gov't services we all rely on will disintegrate, round about election time would be poetic justice.

                                      Commenter
                                      mitch of ACT
                                      Date and time
                                      August 13, 2014, 12:34PM
                                    • Hey Mitch - re the Public Service wages - something has to be done to cut costs - the Australian taxpayer’s debt for the unfunded public service superannuation is somewhere around $200 billion. Unfunded super - ridiculous - one of Whitlam’s legacies we didn’t need.

                                      Commenter
                                      BillJ
                                      Date and time
                                      August 13, 2014, 4:11PM
                                  • Buy the dip in RIO. Headed for $70 in short order.

                                    Commenter
                                    50BahtLeo
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 12:07PM
                                    • Approx 43% of asx owned by foreigners, 40% by institutions and 17% by retail investors, so spruiking a large cap on this blog probably won't move it.

                                      Commenter
                                      W
                                      Date and time
                                      August 13, 2014, 12:26PM
                                    • Thanks for the heads up. Always learning .. I think the insto's telegraphed their intentions a few days after the recent profit result.

                                      Commenter
                                      50BahtLeo
                                      Location
                                      Living in SEA thanks to the ASX
                                      Date and time
                                      August 13, 2014, 1:05PM
                                    • Rio is a definite sell. so over valued.
                                      Short it.

                                      Commenter
                                      wil
                                      Location
                                      melb
                                      Date and time
                                      August 13, 2014, 1:16PM
                                    • Mining Boom?

                                      Commenter
                                      Red Rooster
                                      Location
                                      Naughty Corner
                                      Date and time
                                      August 13, 2014, 1:40PM
                                  • Anyone getting itchy buy fingers over AMM getting smashed this morning after coming in directly in line with expectations? Takes SP 7% below yearly low.

                                    Commenter
                                    Happy
                                    Location
                                    Trader
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 11:39AM
                                    • it is currently $1.845 and was $1.80 on August 29 last year!

                                      Commenter
                                      walter mitty
                                      Date and time
                                      August 13, 2014, 12:09PM
                                    • I'm putting a buy order in @ $1.835. Nicely run company.

                                      Commenter
                                      Irish Phil
                                      Date and time
                                      August 13, 2014, 12:11PM
                                    • Annoyed with myself for not getting into CarSales this morning when the market overreacted as always and pushed them down to $10.40

                                      Commenter
                                      Irish Phil
                                      Date and time
                                      August 13, 2014, 12:12PM
                                    • @walter mitty, hey walter? wake up walter! thats not quite a year now is it?

                                      Commenter
                                      Happy
                                      Location
                                      Trader
                                      Date and time
                                      August 13, 2014, 3:07PM
                                  • ....."University of Wollongong’s SMART research ­institute shows for the first time how much Australians are overpaying for infrastructure.....Adjusted for inflation, the original bridge cost around $300 million. The second bridge, cost six times as much: $1.7 billion.......claiming that $4 billion to $5 billion is being lost to cost blowouts annually on new roads, rail lines and bridges"......

                                    Commenter
                                    The smart economy is coming
                                    Location
                                    We promise
                                    Date and time
                                    August 13, 2014, 11:23AM
                                    • If the recent falls in the markets have been a response to geo-political concerns, this will get worse before it gets better.

                                      The Libyan government has had to retreat to Tobruk. Tripoli and Benghazi are under the control of militias. My grandfather survived Tobruk, but I don't expect the Libyan government to.

                                      Events in the region are pushing countries in interesting directions.
                                      Egypt is turning closer to Russia. The Egyptian government has announced a wish to join in a free trade zone with the the Eurasian Customs Union (Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan). The combined population of those countries is roughly equivalent to North America. (After years of being spurned by the EU, Turkey, too, has expressed an interest in the Eurasian Customs Union.

                                      Commenter
                                      Fred
                                      Date and time
                                      August 13, 2014, 11:23AM
                                      • The new world order will squash this like a tiny little lady bug ;)

                                        Commenter
                                        illuminati
                                        Date and time
                                        August 13, 2014, 11:32AM
                                      • Armenia and Kyrgyzstan are also joining The ECU.

                                        I don't mean to overstate its importance, but given all this, talk in Canberra of 'isolating' Russia economically is nonsense.
                                        In 2014, facing restrictions in London and New York does not a Hermit Kingdom make.

                                        Commenter
                                        Fred
                                        Date and time
                                        August 13, 2014, 11:38AM
                                      • @Fred it will seem like a hermit kingdom if you are one of the oligarchs and you can't visit London, New York or Paris where your fancy pad, mistress(es) and luxury shops are. The measures are aimed at those who give Putin power. When they remove their support, with the aid of a disaffected general or two, he is gone.

                                        Commenter
                                        mitch of ACT
                                        Date and time
                                        August 13, 2014, 11:55AM
                                      • Libya? Where is that again? And you're saying it affects stocks here?

                                        Commenter
                                        beria
                                        Date and time
                                        August 13, 2014, 12:57PM
                                      • population is as big as the US? whats their combined GDP/cap. rev it up!

                                        Commenter
                                        longlunch
                                        Date and time
                                        August 13, 2014, 1:22PM
                                    • TLS shed 3cents today ahead of tomorrow result announcement. Given current trend that will not surprise TLS share will be bashed should special dividend not forthcoming . It could be much uglier if sales revenue growth not above market expectation. Sit tight (just IMHO)

                                      Commenter
                                      Up and Down is Norm
                                      Date and time
                                      August 13, 2014, 11:21AM
                                      • What about the effect of FCF? Wouldn't that counter?

                                        Commenter
                                        Human Trader
                                        Location
                                        Sydney
                                        Date and time
                                        August 13, 2014, 11:39AM
                                      • Dip buy? No special divvy but eventually some reward from the NBN debacle taxpayers paying taxpayers in a revolving door so stay on the merry goround.

                                        Commenter
                                        Bearshapedbull
                                        Location
                                        Mugpunters lounge
                                        Date and time
                                        August 13, 2014, 2:42PM
                                    • WHC benefiting from being in the right place at the right time. Maule's Creek will be the saviour in the current environment!

                                      Commenter
                                      fredericka
                                      Date and time
                                      August 13, 2014, 11:08AM
                                      • So what was yesterday's mad rush to buy at any price about. The market had the scent of easy blood in its nostrils, it couldn't pay too much. Today I'm just smelling burnt fingers.

                                        Commenter
                                        mitch of ACT
                                        Date and time
                                        August 13, 2014, 11:07AM
                                        • Sorry Mitch. Fine are on fire still ;)

                                          Commenter
                                          Happy
                                          Location
                                          Trader
                                          Date and time
                                          August 13, 2014, 11:34AM
                                        • My big movers from yesterday are still on the rise, buy quality:
                                          CTD, GEM, VOC

                                          Commenter
                                          Irish Phil
                                          Date and time
                                          August 13, 2014, 11:38AM
                                        • *mine :)

                                          Commenter
                                          Happy
                                          Location
                                          Trader
                                          Date and time
                                          August 13, 2014, 11:43AM
                                      • I personally wonder what DJs new owners are doing and what strategy if any they have for getting traction. To think that you will make an extra $130-$150m extra by replacing well-known brands including Tommy Hilfiger, La Coste etc. with South African own line of private labels will be challenging. The new owners say they ‘will be guided by loyal DJ customers’. How exactly do you do that e.g. a customer survey or you through out some brands and then when you get complaints you bring them back?

                                        In order to get quick pay-back for overspending on their new acquisition it is very likely Woolworths Holding will implement a deep cost cutting campaign. I wish them well but think it will be hard to get a decent return on their investment.

                                        Commenter
                                        Viking
                                        Location
                                        Sydney
                                        Date and time
                                        August 13, 2014, 10:59AM
                                        • The main prize with DJS was the $600m+ property portfolio. That will be flogged off ASAP. The retail issue is secondary.

                                          Commenter
                                          mitch of ACT
                                          Date and time
                                          August 13, 2014, 11:11AM
                                        • Harry Dent ;) lmao! Why Australian media bothered to print this guy's rubbish is beyond understanding. Go to his website and you are told to pay him money so he can save you from pending doom. A few on here might be loyal subscribers, so sorry if I offend.

                                          Commenter
                                          ;)
                                          Date and time
                                          August 13, 2014, 10:55AM
                                      • I thought Resmed was also releasing their annual report today. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

                                        Commenter
                                        soap
                                        Date and time
                                        August 13, 2014, 10:49AM
                                        • I think the results were out on the 1/08.

                                          Commenter
                                          TP
                                          Date and time
                                          August 13, 2014, 11:05AM
                                        • It was released on August 1st.

                                          Commenter
                                          CafeAmericano
                                          Date and time
                                          August 13, 2014, 11:18AM
                                        • Thanks.

                                          Commenter
                                          soap
                                          Date and time
                                          August 13, 2014, 11:34AM
                                        • 40c interim dividend to be extract. considering SUN was well over $20 a few years back, still long way to go.

                                          Commenter
                                          AUBen
                                          Date and time
                                          August 13, 2014, 10:46AM
                                      • 10:33am: Japan contraction

                                        Abe's attempt at money-printing his way out of trouble is turning out to be a catastrophe of gigantic proportions. No surprise there, it's never worked anywhere ever. The US, which runs similar policies, has some more freedom given that the dollar is the world's reserve currency, but soon they will go the same way as Japan, but much quicker! The rate of de-dollarisation around the world is picking up. We know that US so called leadership don't understand what's going on, bless them, but Abe should know, and should take action. Their moving past the point of no return.

                                        Commenter
                                        Dr No
                                        Location
                                        Sydney
                                        Date and time
                                        August 13, 2014, 10:46AM
                                        • BKN is going like a rocket. Yet quite poor FY14 report card yesterday. You'd feel ill if you'd sold on the back of the results yesterday for $4.05 (SP just hit $4.93). Something is going on.

                                          Commenter
                                          Yin or yang
                                          Date and time
                                          August 13, 2014, 10:44AM
                                          • All that is "going on" is that BKN is getting back to where it was trading six months ago. For July to Dec last year BKN traded broadly between $5.00 and $6.50. It got oversold (or shorted) this year down to $3.25, in anticipation of an absolute shocker. The result turned out to be not in the doomsday region, just in the normal low point of cycle level, so the share price is simply returning to where it was.

                                            Commenter
                                            pass the red
                                            Date and time
                                            August 13, 2014, 10:57AM
                                          • @Pass the red. You could be right - it could just be institutions re-acquiring shares they'd disposed of. My hope is a juicy takeover contest.

                                            Commenter
                                            Yin or yang
                                            Date and time
                                            August 13, 2014, 11:16AM
                                        • Goooood Moooorning Vietnam!!!
                                          CAJ up again a sneaky 3.5%, taking it to 28%.

                                          Commenter
                                          Happy
                                          Location
                                          Trader
                                          Date and time
                                          August 13, 2014, 10:39AM
                                          • Big volumes coming through now! 5% sneaky $3k for Wednesday Burgers! Anyone else in this stock? Been a fav for last two years, last year got 20% off her but sold stupidly. Got back in around 47c.

                                            Commenter
                                            Happy
                                            Location
                                            Trader
                                            Date and time
                                            August 13, 2014, 11:09AM
                                          • Yep onboard for awhile avg 47.5c looking for 64c target might be this week....might not winner and grinner x 2 so far in fyear

                                            Commenter
                                            Bearshapedbull
                                            Location
                                            Mugpunters lounge
                                            Date and time
                                            August 13, 2014, 2:28PM
                                        • Harry S Dent has four and a half months before he is well and truly relegated to the dustbin of irrelevance.

                                          This 'economic forecaster' toured Australia recently loudly proclaiming the end is nigh for Australian property, even though you can still buy 3 bedroom brick houses on substantial plots of land 15 kms from the Melbourne CBD for circa $350K.

                                          When quizzed by David Potts, Mr Dent proclaimed the crash would happen by Xmas! He has 4 and a half months before his reputation as a forecaster of economic events is well and truly trashed.

                                          Some people must still be holding substantial amounts of cash, after being unfortunate enough to consider his earlier proclamation of world's end in a 'book' entitled something like 'how to profit from the coming economic DEPRESSION"! Such people will have well and truly missed out on the last 2-3 years of significant market appreciation. Good one Harry!

                                          Sensationalist fear mongering may sell books, but does little for your credibility as an 'economist'.

                                          Maybe next time. Even a broken clock is right twice a day!

                                          Commenter
                                          Herman
                                          Location
                                          Prahran
                                          Date and time
                                          August 13, 2014, 10:33AM
                                          • Harry Dent ;) lmao! Why Australian media bothered to print this guy's rubbish is beyond understanding. Go to his website and you are told to pay him money so he can save you from pending doom. A few on here might be loyal subscribers, so sorry if I offend.

                                            Commenter
                                            ;)
                                            Date and time
                                            August 13, 2014, 10:55AM
                                          • He has his fellow travellers in Australia though, some of them very regular contributors on here. I guess if your standard long term prediction is that a particular market sector will crash one day, maybe that day will come....one day. Bit more problematical if you say 'by this Xmas' though, which most long term bears avoid doing, including those from Prahran.

                                            Commenter
                                            rudy
                                            Date and time
                                            August 13, 2014, 4:54PM
                                        • wow, what a bounce for CSL, closed yesterday a bit over $65, opened today at $69! I couldn't find any reason why it got so low in past couple of weeks (other than the general malaise...)

                                          Commenter
                                          jacey
                                          Date and time
                                          August 13, 2014, 10:31AM
                                          • GDY has had a nice little rise over the last week or so on no news (to my knowledge).

                                            It's a bit of a wait, but the Savo Island project should be powering Honiara in a couple of years time, which should be a decent little income stream for them.

                                            Admittedly, Honiara is not New York or Beijing!

                                            Commenter
                                            Fred
                                            Date and time
                                            August 13, 2014, 10:27AM
                                            • Suncorp shares at $14.70, paying a dividend of $1.05.
                                              *grabs calculator*.
                                              Nice.

                                              Commenter
                                              Irish Phil
                                              Date and time
                                              August 13, 2014, 10:21AM
                                              • Even without the 30c special dividend, it's a tempting yield play.

                                                Commenter
                                                Irish Phil
                                                Date and time
                                                August 13, 2014, 10:33AM
                                            • Home owners and small business being taken for a ride by the banks. Lending conditions providing the fattest profits but little in the way of loan reductions. More fees I notice!

                                              Commenter
                                              Liberator
                                              Location
                                              SEQLD
                                              Date and time
                                              August 13, 2014, 10:15AM
                                              • They are big donators to both Labor and LNP...Coincidence I'm sure.

                                                Commenter
                                                JohnBB
                                                Date and time
                                                August 13, 2014, 11:07AM
                                            • Suncorp- bloody impressive. Very happy.

                                              Commenter
                                              Apollo
                                              Date and time
                                              August 13, 2014, 10:13AM
                                              • What's a Daxman to do? Buy or sell? hmmm options are expiring this week, which usually means up until Friday.

                                                Commenter
                                                Daxman
                                                Location
                                                Sydney
                                                Date and time
                                                August 13, 2014, 10:10AM
                                                • Further to my post yesterday re the purchase/sale of a friends Sydney property.Out of interest I spoke with them about the comments made.

                                                  Re "saving" 3 years rent was mentioned a few times, however, as they pointed out owning the property has cost them over $100k in mortgage payments (mostly interest) which they would not have had if they were renting, so that effectively negates any real "saving" of rent, as they effectively cancel each other out.

                                                  It was also mentioned that they could rent it out as an investment property. They would still have had to live/rent somewhere else in the mean time and did not want the possible hassles from tenants etc. Rental returns are less than 3% gross at the moment in this part of Sydney so it may not have be financially viable for them.

                                                  They feel that for all the stress of "owning" with a large mortgage (and ultimately little tangible to show for it) that they might have been better of renting, using the $150k to invest in shares (in 2011, what was CBA worth then?) or just stick it in the bank at 5% (in 2011) and they would have had a happier time of it.

                                                  As they said, had capital growth and interest rates been at more typical historical levels say 5% capital growth per year and interest rates at 8% they would have been in a world of pain.

                                                  Personally, I think it reinforces the view that property generally only become a financial value proposition over a lengthy period of time of 10 plus years.

                                                  The "property doubles every 7 years" mantra seems mythical to me.

                                                  Anyway, not looking to start a fight with anyone, just thought I would follow up with some interesting points of view.
                                                  cheers

                                                  Commenter
                                                  Boom Boom
                                                  Date and time
                                                  August 13, 2014, 10:09AM
                                                  • @Boom Boom: Good on your for coming back to us.
                                                    If the rent they would have paid basically offset the interest they paid, that is fine. However, you only included one side of that in your financial analysis. That was the point.
                                                    I still conclude that they have made $100k profit on a $150k over 3 years. Very nice, but only possible due to the current crazy market. They sold at a good time, but buying and selling property that quickly is generally a very bad idea.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Irish Phil
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 10:16AM
                                                  • You sound young and unsure. Everything you typed out is someone else's opinion.

                                                    "Re "saving" 3 years rent was mentioned a few times, ...... hey effectively cancel each other out.". So you friend got a place to stay for 3 years, pay interest instead of rent. After 3 years they walk away with 5k.
                                                    Fact - had they not bought the place, they will still pay rent unless they live with mum&dad. Yes they will get interest from that 150k deposit but that's another matter.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    got brain
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 10:22AM
                                                  • @ Boom Boom; yes motivations like stress, security etc are very individual and are not for others to comment on.

                                                    But yesterday you attempted to provide numbers to show that property was a poor investment, and left out the yield (ie rent) on that investment. That's like looking at shares in CBA and omitting the dividend - either disingenuous or not very skilful analysis. Your OWN numbers showed that your friends enjoyed a healthy return on equity.

                                                    This argument that the rent shouldn't be taken into account because you've got to live somewhere is embarrassing. Investments have to be looked at on a stand-alone basis. Eg, CBA shares return 5% fully franked dividends - you don't say I'm getting 5% dividends on CBA but I won't count them because I've got to live somewhere, do you? You don't look at a property any differently. You weigh up the costs and returns on a stand alone basis.

                                                    And btw, no-one sensible says property doubles every seven years. It doesn't. The only time you see those sort of statements are doomsayers putting up straw man arguments. Over a long time, property will grow modestly above inflation (1% maybe 2% if you're lucky). It doesn't double every seven years and doesn't need to.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    pass the red
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 10:33AM
                                                  • Believe there was a long term study that rental cost and interest cost from ownership are roughly the same over the long term. Difference is, at the end of rent you don't have an asset.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Sceptical Prophet
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 10:45AM
                                                  • Boom Boom, please ignore some of these posts(you seem young blah blah)
                                                    You made me think
                                                    I thought of giving my sons 100k for a dep. on a house in the Uni area Sippy Downs, easy to rent out
                                                    Av price there 435k
                                                    They would need to rent out two rooms
                                                    Looking at the sales graph this area prices have been on the rise quite steeply since 2012
                                                    I think area is key
                                                    But yes property is a liability, my own house bought in 2001 for 343k went to 1.1. now maybe 800k and no gains in Buderim for 4 years
                                                    Have to do math, you made me think
                                                    Upon death the taxman takes 15% of my SMSF, so makes sense to get rid some now
                                                    Also, I may just buy a BMW1220 Gs adventure and bugger off,
                                                    thanks for the post

                                                    Commenter
                                                    stu
                                                    Location
                                                    stu
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 10:56AM
                                                  • @got brain
                                                    "You sound young and unsure. Everything you typed out is someone else's opinion".

                                                    Um, this is the experience of my friends not mine, therefore everything I type out is their opinions not mine. Seems reasonable to me

                                                    @pass the red
                                                    As I indicated in my secondary post yesterday the property is owner occupied with a mortgage.
                                                    Rental yield is not a consideration.

                                                    "Your OWN numbers showed that your friends enjoyed a healthy return on equity."

                                                    Unfortunately that's not going to be reflected in their bank balance. As indicated the cost of ownership (mortgage) has effectively cost them $100k in real terms plus the SD, strata, selling etc etc. Im sure they wish they had a "healthy return on equity " but in real terms over the 3 years its not apparent to them.

                                                    all the best

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Boom Boom
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 11:31AM
                                                  • "As I indicated in my secondary post yesterday the property is owner occupied with a mortgage.
                                                    Rental yield is not a consideration."

                                                    So what about the rent that they didn't have to pay for a place to live in the past 3 years? Having a PPOR is ultimately paying rent in the form of interest.

                                                    Your own set of number show your friends didn't pay any rent in the last 3 years and walk away with 5k extra in the end after all expenses. What's wrong with that ?

                                                    Commenter
                                                    got brain
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 11:55AM
                                                  • @Boom Boom: they bought and came away with $5k extra in the bank, correct?
                                                    If they had not bought, and rented for 3 years, they would have had ~$95k less in the bank (due to rent), correct?
                                                    Therefore, they are $100k better off.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Irish Phil
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 12:04PM
                                                  • @ boom boom; you say "rental yield is not a consideration because it's owner occupied".

                                                    Sorry, but you don't understand finance 101. If you buy a bottle of wine for $100 that I later offer you $150 for, you have made a 50% yield on that purchase. You are trying to tell me that if you choose to drink it instead it didn't generate any yield at all?

                                                    And you say your friends "can't look at their bank balance and see the return". Sorry again, but the comparison needs to be with where they'd have been otherwise. If they'd been renting for 3 years their bank balance would be a lot lower.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    pass the red
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 12:05PM
                                                  • "If you buy a bottle of wine for $100 that I later offer you $150 for, you have made a 50% yield on that purchase."

                                                    and if it costs $200 to store the wine during that period then you made a loss.
                                                    Finance 101 you have to look at income and expenses to gauge a real return which seems to be the point of the original thread

                                                    Commenter
                                                    tom
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 12:40PM
                                                  • "if they had not bought, and rented for 3 years, they would have had ~$95k less in the bank (due to rent), correct?
                                                    Therefore, they are $100k better off."

                                                    Nope,
                                                    the original purchase price and subsequent sale price includes the buyers original $150k stake (i think that was the figure stated).

                                                    As renters they till have this money available to them

                                                    Commenter
                                                    tom
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 12:48PM
                                                  • Sceptical prophet has the right of it. One overriding reason to own property is that it's no fun living in rented premises during retirement if you're on modest income then. Not to mention the many hassles and restrictions on quality of live involved with a lifetime of renting. Most of us tire of it after a while, and especially once children come into your life.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    guy
                                                    Location
                                                    Pymble
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 1:04PM
                                                  • Your own set of number show your friends didn't pay any rent in the last 3 years and walk away with 5k extra in the end after all expenses. What's wrong with that ?

                                                    a $5000 return on $150k outlay over 3 years, on a high risk illiquid asset, you think this is good?

                                                    Commenter
                                                    tom
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 1:07PM
                                                  • As renters they pay for rent the same way as they pay the mortgage - from earnings, not from the original $150k. If they can afford to pay the mortgage (and not have access to the $150k because they spent it on the property) they can pay the rent with that same money/earnings and keep the $150k intact or use it some other way, earn interest or whatever
                                                    I find it funny to hear people say " I bought my house for $400k and sold it 10 years later for $800k so I made $400k", no you didn't, deduct the actual cost of ownership/sale over this period then see what the end result is - you might be surprised.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    tom
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 1:18PM
                                                  • @tom "a $5000 return on $150k outlay over 3 years, on a high risk illiquid asset, you think this is good?"

                                                    So if they were to rent the same place for 3 years. What would they walk away with? Nothing.

                                                    How do you calculate a cost of owning your PPOR without factoring in the rent that you would have to pay if you didn't own? Unless you live with mum&dad of course.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    got brain
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 1:22PM
                                                  • guy/Pymble,

                                                    agree completely.
                                                    I think the purpose of the original post was to show that property ownership SHORTERM is not necessarily profitable, it needs a long term view. Unfortunately many people fall for the RE spruik and over commit with dreams of a quick fortune

                                                    Commenter
                                                    tom
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 1:53PM
                                                  • @got brain,

                                                    they would walk a with their $150k deposit plus interest or whatever purpose it was put to,

                                                    Commenter
                                                    tom
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 1:56PM
                                                • Great news for CBA but at these dividends level I'm happy to pay around $AUD 45 per CBA share...pleasing & not one cent more. Anyone who has paid more than the above...well, not very pleasing for you is it?

                                                  Commenter
                                                  Wealth Creator
                                                  Location
                                                  Sydney
                                                  Date and time
                                                  August 13, 2014, 10:09AM
                                                  • CBA is so heavily overvalued - it makes me wonder. The banks are also, in my opinion, highly exposed. They have done very little in the way of making the business 'better' except for off shoring certain BOH jobs. The profit is nearly a direct result of foreign borrowing at record low interest rates. Money in zero to 1pc rated Sovereigns cannot find a home better than Australian shores in the current climate. My super has banks - that is good news - however I see high risk holding too many banking stocks.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Liberator
                                                    Location
                                                    SEQLD
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 10:23AM
                                                  • Yeah anybody who is up as much as 80% on a purchase price of $45.01 and yielding over 10% gross must be ropeable. With that logic you need to change your screen name.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Sticks
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 10:26AM
                                                  • The full year dividend is $4.01 per share fully franked. How do you come up with a value of $45?

                                                    Commenter
                                                    TP
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 10:47AM
                                                  • To think I paid $5.40 for them in 1991 and now getting a dividend of $4.01....fantastic.

                                                    Dividend BOOM!

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Allan Mitchell
                                                    Location
                                                    SEQLD
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 11:13AM
                                                  • Anyone has done reasonably well if and only if they have bought CBA around $45/share...which translates in...Sell immediately at current prices and run for the hills. Some amateurs boasts about dividends at $4.01...amateurs indeed; taking into consideration annual inflation around 3%, no wonder they'll never be wealthy. Don't go for crumbs,go big. Anything below 8% yield...crumbs. Go Big, if you dare.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Wealth Creator
                                                    Location
                                                    Sydney
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 11:14AM
                                                  • Bought more CBA this morning for $81 for my SMSF. Takes my average CBA price to $46. Not ropeable. I will (hopefully) be collecting dividends from these investments for the next 30+ years. CBA should do a share split to stop the "it is too high a price" silliness.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Elric
                                                    Location
                                                    Melnibone
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 11:27AM
                                                  • @Eric, well said Sir, well said, but you would be mad too if you had to sit outside and watch the party rage on, and on, and on!

                                                    Commenter
                                                    ;)
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 11:36AM
                                                  • Turn your calculator up the right way.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Upside Down
                                                    Location
                                                    Sydney
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 12:34PM
                                                • Nice 10% drop on Collins Foods (CKF)... I knew that substantial buyer couldn't jack up the shares forever! Would like to see <$2

                                                  Commenter
                                                  GS
                                                  Date and time
                                                  August 13, 2014, 10:08AM
                                                  • Dammit, it's being bought up again! CURSES!!!!! :/

                                                    Commenter
                                                    GS
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 10:14AM
                                                • Doesn't look like that dream opening of 82.50 is playing out on CBA. The market's reaction can be fickle, or to read it another way, the big buys were positioned short, so she's a going down. With RIO going ex-div today, that will place a some pressure on the index.

                                                  Commenter
                                                  50BahtLeo
                                                  Date and time
                                                  August 13, 2014, 10:03AM
                                                  • This market is mental. Record profit not enough? then who was buying it yesterday, only for CBA to get slammed today? Market manipulation more like it, and should be looked into.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Bazwat
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 10:19AM
                                                  • @ Bazwat. Yep Spot on. Banks started to perform in 2009 and by April of 2010 they all had 3 record profits. Every year since then the banks have come out with record profits yet on many occasions on reporting day down they go. They said investors decided the record profit wasn't enough. Which Investors? Did they ask you ? Didn't ask me. Now 11 record profits in a row for the banks and they are still bagging them. If this was a stock on the Dow the share price would have rocketed upwards but this is the ASX, the market still 1350 points from it's Nov 1 2007 high. A little wonder why when this occurs. Remember last week COH down 30% in revenue so what happens, the stock goes up 10% in one day. The ASX is having a lend of the small poor little punter.. .

                                                    Commenter
                                                    CBA
                                                    Location
                                                    Sydney
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 12:46PM
                                                • Congratulations CBA on another record result! Amazing! Watch the price of banks rise until CBA goes Ex Dividend on 19th August. Buy Buy Buy !

                                                  Commenter
                                                  CBA
                                                  Date and time
                                                  August 13, 2014, 10:01AM
                                                  • Gordon Gecko, I bought my apartment for $580,000 and I pay about $1,400 for strata per quarter. Rent for my place would be around $600-700/week. I believe the government has been meaning to introduce some regulation against corruption in strata management but it wasn't rolled out because the legislation was deemed too "rushed". Can't find the article right now.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Sceptical Prophet
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 9:46AM
                                                    • My numbers:
                                                      Bought = $530k
                                                      Rented out = $600 pw
                                                      Strata = $800 pq

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Irish Phil
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 13, 2014, 10:19AM
                                                    • my numbers:
                                                      Bought 2x300k
                                                      Rented out 2x420
                                                      No strata
                                                      Insurance 2x380 p/a

                                                      Commenter
                                                      got brain
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 13, 2014, 10:36AM
                                                  • Down down prices are down, and staying down!

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Coles
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 13, 2014, 9:29AM
                                                    • Yesterday, the issue of strata fees/body corporate fees on owner-occupied/investment units/apartments was highlighted. Can I just ask how many of you are in this position, and your total annual fees discounting council rates. I was shocked to find some are paying $200 a week(others, maybe more), and I'm thinking...what for? In addition, state what the rental is/would be for that unit. I did some research, and found in one case, the insurance bill alone jumped from $8k to $67k in just one year (if that's true). Thanks. GG.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Gordon Gekko
                                                      Location
                                                      Greg Coffey World
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 13, 2014, 9:14AM
                                                      • Everyone's got their finger in the real estate pie. It's all we do. Soon prices will be 20 times earnings then 30, 40, 50. It will just keep rising. Nothing can go wrong.

                                                        Strata fees can rise to $1000 a week, insurance $1000 a week, banks can clip another $1000 a week fees from wherever the government let's them invent next. We're the smart economy everyone talked about.

                                                        Commenter
                                                        JohnBB
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 13, 2014, 10:03AM
                                                      • Strata on my 2 bed unit is $800 a quarter, but that is because the building has no lift. When you get into those fancy new buildings, the cost of lifts, pools, gym makes the strata crazy expensive. And most owners never use the pool & gym facilities - money down the drain.

                                                        Commenter
                                                        Irish Phil
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 13, 2014, 10:18AM
                                                      • I pay $450 a quarter and the absentee landlords that own the other units complain about paying that. LOL

                                                        Commenter
                                                        TP
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 13, 2014, 10:50AM
                                                      • John BB, I recognise you as an inveterate property bear, predicting disaster for property investors year after year, meanwhile property prices keep defying bear-imposed gravity. Maybe rethink your whole approach?

                                                        Commenter
                                                        guy
                                                        Location
                                                        Pymble
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 13, 2014, 12:58PM
                                                      • Strata managers, fund managers, banks, real estate agents, travel agents.. its just another to distribute those that had wealth to those who will have wealth. Clip that ticket

                                                        Commenter
                                                        Greg
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 13, 2014, 1:39PM
                                                    Comments are now closed