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Markets Live: Investors shun risk

Date

Patrick Commins, Jens Meyer

Stocks end lower, led down by banks and energy stocks, while miners staged a comeback despite copper's overnight plunge adding to worries about commodities.

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  • "The Yuan has fallen the most in a week since 1994"

    Commenter
    Perma Bulls
    Location
    Can't handle the truth
    Date and time
    March 12, 2014, 5:15PM
    • Try Optus cable. 110Mbps.

      Commenter
      Allan
      Location
      Prahran
      Date and time
      March 12, 2014, 5:07PM
  • Anyone know why over 5 million Transfield Services shares changed hands today and it's now a 76 cent stock?

    Commenter
    Knock Knock
    Date and time
    March 12, 2014, 5:04PM
    • not for the upper upper end of town though. they are giggling their head off. things couldnt be rosier.

      Commenter
      smilingjack
      Date and time
      March 12, 2014, 4:30PM
    • next you will be expecting trains that go more than 60kph! not in stralya bud.
      I can remember doing the first ever ( in stralya ) live stream demo for telstra.
      it was a bit of south park. waayyyy back in 2001. one computer through our new ( alcatel ) designed and built modem into another machine. yes they were only meters apart but it worked. later that year we streamed the melbourne cup to everyones desktop.
      the rest of the world has moved on and we are still not far off where we were a decade ago.

      Commenter
      smilingjack
      Date and time
      March 12, 2014, 4:28PM
  • BCI bouncing back
    TRY go go you bewdy
    AFJ northward bound

    Commenter
    BearShapedBull
    Location
    MugPunters Lounge
    Date and time
    March 12, 2014, 4:15PM
    • another gr8 day for the bulls really.

      Commenter
      weak
      Location
      as bears
      Date and time
      March 12, 2014, 4:13PM
      • no one mention the BOQ short @11.20

        Commenter
        Dicky Fuld
        Date and time
        March 12, 2014, 4:10PM
        • ‘Buy the dips’ will be replaced with ‘what was I thinking?'

          LMFAO!

          Commenter
          The Iron Sheik
          Date and time
          March 12, 2014, 4:00PM
          • "The economic slowdown in China is hammering prices of some raw materials, driving down industrial commodities from copper to iron ore and coal." - Wall Street Journal

            Commenter
            The Iron Sheik
            Date and time
            March 12, 2014, 3:58PM
            • bears pathetic once again...c'mon fellas...please

              Commenter
              no banks .. no party!
              Location
              MIA SHORTERS..MIA
              Date and time
              March 12, 2014, 3:56PM
              • I totally agree, no banks.....no party. I'm sitting here with cash to invest, and dividend payments rolling in each day, and just hoping for a couple of down days so I can get in cheaper. I find myself wishing some of these doomsayers would put their money where their mouth is, and push the market down a bit, but then I remember they don't actually have any money.

                Commenter
                pass the red
                Date and time
                March 12, 2014, 5:00PM
            • The ASX is funny lately. It's so desperate to go up but it can't. How can it go up when it's mostly built on banks and mining? Both banking and mining are headed for a simultaneous crash. Look out below...

              Commenter
              Keen Observer
              Date and time
              March 12, 2014, 3:56PM
              • Small/mid caps will be the $ for savvy investors,diverse and research beats the odds,same ol same ol cycle of top 20 will not always be a winner,but the cycle always continues........

                Commenter
                BearShapedBull
                Location
                MugPunters Lounge
                Date and time
                March 12, 2014, 4:41PM
            • The problems everyone here likes to complain about are all caused by one thing...Old people.
              It will help ease the population.
              Houses they own will increase the supply side of the housing market and ease the bubble.
              Young people could afford to buy houses again and take their money out of shares and ease that bubble in the banks.
              So if you are over the expected life expectancy for your gender (as it was in 1901) please consider the damage you are doing to Australia

              Commenter
              Wwwish Lion
              Location
              Melbourne
              Date and time
              March 12, 2014, 3:52PM
                • $145 a month.....??????

                  That hurts, that really hurts.

                  Commenter
                  Doctor Doctor
                  Location
                  Sydney
                  Date and time
                  March 12, 2014, 3:51PM
              • Shorters beware...

                Still a lot of money chasing quality, diversified, dividend-paying resources stocks like BHP. The lower the price, the more the money chasing it.

                R.

                Commenter
                Roadsta
                Location
                BV
                Date and time
                March 12, 2014, 3:50PM
                • Surely you jest?

                  Commenter
                  Expert Jester
                  Date and time
                  March 12, 2014, 3:42PM
              • '3:30pm: Joe, stop frightening the punters, writes BusinessDay columnist Michael Pascoe:

                It could be worse, false optimism could be thrown at people by the usual suspects :)

                Commenter
                Opinion Only
                Location
                Melbourne
                Date and time
                March 12, 2014, 3:41PM
                • Wow just seeing the footage from the fire at the Barangaroo work site now. No joking matter - that's a big fire for a work site!

                  Commenter
                  Gordon Akman
                  Location
                  Broadbeach
                  Date and time
                  March 12, 2014, 3:40PM
                  • I see Pascoe's dial and if I was like Mitch I would get all miserable but I smile and am happy because it is one bit of biased commentary I don't have to waste my time reading. Pascoe would fit in at the ABC I reckon!

                    Commenter
                    Aussie Al
                    Location
                    Adelaide
                    Date and time
                    March 12, 2014, 3:40PM
                    • Just signed up with Telstra bigpond NBN 500 gigabytes for $145 a month. It is slower than my old ADSL2++. This is pathetic Australia is going backwards. It will be the 1950s soon.

                      Commenter
                      Colin
                      Date and time
                      March 12, 2014, 3:37PM
                      • Surely you jest?

                        Commenter
                        Expert Jester
                        Date and time
                        March 12, 2014, 3:42PM
                      • $145 a month.....??????

                        That hurts, that really hurts.

                        Commenter
                        Doctor Doctor
                        Location
                        Sydney
                        Date and time
                        March 12, 2014, 3:51PM
                      • next you will be expecting trains that go more than 60kph! not in stralya bud.
                        I can remember doing the first ever ( in stralya ) live stream demo for telstra.
                        it was a bit of south park. waayyyy back in 2001. one computer through our new ( alcatel ) designed and built modem into another machine. yes they were only meters apart but it worked. later that year we streamed the melbourne cup to everyones desktop.
                        the rest of the world has moved on and we are still not far off where we were a decade ago.

                        Commenter
                        smilingjack
                        Date and time
                        March 12, 2014, 4:28PM
                      • Try Optus cable. 110Mbps.

                        Commenter
                        Allan
                        Location
                        Prahran
                        Date and time
                        March 12, 2014, 5:07PM
                    • "Labor voters’ confidence has plunged below GFC levels."

                      Well my guess is the coalition government will last another 2-3 terms at least. So maybe around the year 2025 Labor and Greens supporters might be able to cheer up?

                      Commenter
                      Lost decade
                      Date and time
                      March 12, 2014, 3:34PM
                      • Q How do you turn Liberal voters into Labor voters.
                        A Take away their jobs.

                        Commenter
                        mitch of ACT
                        Date and time
                        March 12, 2014, 3:51PM
                      • Nice thought but the real problem is the swinging voters confidence is gone too.

                        Next election may be a way off yet however the constant slide in the polls suggests you may be a bit overly optimistic with your 2-3 terms.

                        Commenter
                        Sambo
                        Date and time
                        March 12, 2014, 4:16PM
                    • Go CCV up 5% today where there is misery there is money .............................

                      Commenter
                      Pawn
                      Location
                      Brocker
                      Date and time
                      March 12, 2014, 3:33PM
                      • Congratulations Goose Hockey you have just pushed Australia into the top ten of most miserable nations.

                        Commenter
                        bert
                        Date and time
                        March 12, 2014, 3:31PM
                        • No those are just the ones on the chart its not all countries...

                          Commenter
                          Wwwish Lion
                          Location
                          Melbourne
                          Date and time
                          March 12, 2014, 3:37PM
                      • I hope I'm not speaking too soon but it's significant that on a day when the copper price has taken a battering and the ASX is well and truly down, that the share prices of the end users of copper, ie Telstra & the utilities are steady. Those companies, along with many of the LICs (some of mine are actually up today CDM, ALF, KAM, ALR) are steady rocks against a tide of red.

                        Commenter
                        mitch of ACT
                        Date and time
                        March 12, 2014, 3:29PM
                        • "Using fire at barangaroo fire as a sell signal on Lend Lease $LLC. Really people?! "

                          Really? is it worth publishing tweets like this??

                          Commenter
                          Genghis
                          Location
                          Lounge
                          Date and time
                          March 12, 2014, 3:25PM
                          • "19 weeks in a row we've seen capital outflows from emerging markets. That's the biggest ever on record."

                            Commenter
                            Boom/Bust
                            Location
                            Ding/Dong
                            Date and time
                            March 12, 2014, 3:25PM
                            • Fear always outweighs logic and reasoning. Time to be on the sidelines looking in?

                              Commenter
                              Harry Rogers
                              Date and time
                              March 12, 2014, 3:24PM
                              • Young people should stop complaining and just get a 40 year mortgage. I've a big mortgage and my family is fine. Both my wife and I work. Once we take out child care my wife working nets the house an extra $300 a week. That's a good life ey? Working 40 hours a week to net $300 in one of the richest countries in human history?

                                It's pretty simple really. Instead of buying the "latest iphone" we just rock a couple of Nokias. Instead of taking an "annual overseas holiday" we just put a tent up in the backyard and tell the kids "you're on holidays now". Instead of buying steak we eat "fantastic noodles" for dinner. When we can't afford petrol we just sit at home and watch "free to air" tv. Some of those 8 ads every 7 minutes are really funny!

                                How good are we going?

                                Commenter
                                I've a big mortgage
                                Date and time
                                March 12, 2014, 3:17PM
                                • Instead of buying in Middle Park, you should have purchased in a more affordable suburb

                                  Commenter
                                  Pete
                                  Location
                                  Prahran
                                  Date and time
                                  March 12, 2014, 4:45PM
                              • Surely it doesn't need me to point out that the "Misery Index" went into a steady upward trend from around the date of the last election. I know that I have been feeling miserable since then.

                                Commenter
                                mitch of ACT
                                Date and time
                                March 12, 2014, 3:15PM
                                • and only another 8 and a half years to go @ Mitch, now that should cheer you up, lol

                                  Commenter
                                  Aussie Al
                                  Location
                                  Adelaide
                                  Date and time
                                  March 12, 2014, 3:21PM
                                • Sorry to hear that mitch, hope you feel better. I have been feeling much better since then.

                                  Commenter
                                  Wwwish Lion
                                  Location
                                  Melbourne
                                  Date and time
                                  March 12, 2014, 3:30PM
                              • A former Westpac banker who sold a 30-year mortgage to a 98 year-old woman has been banned from working in financial services by the corporate regulator.

                                Note: That he was cought and banned by wet lettuce force that is ASIC, and NOT by Westpac internal auditing.

                                Nah No Sub-prime problem in Australia, our banks are safest in the World. :)

                                Commenter
                                DJ77
                                Location
                                Sydney
                                Date and time
                                March 12, 2014, 3:08PM
                                • Go directly to Jail. Do Not collect commission.

                                  Reminds me of the time an 80yr old client of mine was put into an Olive project by a known Adelaide investment identity.. Absolute disgrace.Time frame 25yrs!

                                  Commenter
                                  Ox
                                  Location
                                  Kensi Pk
                                  Date and time
                                  March 12, 2014, 3:50PM
                              • "Former Westpac banker banned after selling mortgage to 98-year-old"

                                When Australia was the richest country in the world banking and financial services was about 2% of the economy. Now paper shufflers are about 35% of the ASX. Dear me.

                                Commenter
                                Fair Dinkum
                                Date and time
                                March 12, 2014, 3:02PM
                                • @2.50 comment,again we are not alone,so iron ores not the only thing thats put a dampner on trading.

                                  Commenter
                                  BearShapedBull
                                  Location
                                  MugPunters Lounge
                                  Date and time
                                  March 12, 2014, 3:00PM
                                  • Australia's "index" was well over 20 in the late 1980s and early 90s. I'm not sure that saying our index at 8.7 is the highest since August 2011 is going to excite anyone other than those who live for things to get excited about.

                                    Commenter
                                    pass the red
                                    Date and time
                                    March 12, 2014, 2:54PM
                                    • "Japan's Nikkei is 2.2 per cent lower"

                                      Commenter
                                      Goodness Gracious
                                      Date and time
                                      March 12, 2014, 2:51PM
                                      • Fire at Barangaroo. Wonder what the effect could be on CWN and or LLC.
                                        Hate to be the insurer!
                                        Looks pretty big from the office window.

                                        Commenter
                                        Andy
                                        Location
                                        Sydney
                                        Date and time
                                        March 12, 2014, 2:46PM
                                        • Two people missing apparently ... unless they're sitting out the head count in the Sussex Hotel ...

                                          Commenter
                                          Dr No
                                          Location
                                          Sydney
                                          Date and time
                                          March 12, 2014, 3:08PM
                                        • @Dr No lmao!

                                          Commenter
                                          Jobs for me mates
                                          Date and time
                                          March 12, 2014, 3:19PM
                                        • oh dear, really, best sell

                                          Commenter
                                          Genghis
                                          Location
                                          Lounge
                                          Date and time
                                          March 12, 2014, 3:27PM
                                        • Genghis the key to my comment earlier is that i state "wonder what the effect could be" as by the tweet about lend lease fire signals my thoughts seem justified.
                                          I gave no indication of my intentions.
                                          I'm very happy sitting on my CWN position for a while unless the fundamentals change.

                                          Commenter
                                          Andy
                                          Location
                                          Sydney
                                          Date and time
                                          March 12, 2014, 3:41PM
                                      • What a crud day, red everywhere
                                        Im going back to playing stick of truth

                                        Commenter
                                        BoB
                                        Location
                                        Franga
                                        Date and time
                                        March 12, 2014, 2:37PM
                                        • "Atlas Iron managing director Ken Brinsden says the current volatility in the iron ore price will not deter expansion plans and the market should take a mid-term view of the commodity."

                                          Incorrect. Commodities have always been characterised by boom/bust cycles. There is no "middle ground" or "middle trade". You buy low and sell high. Simple as that.

                                          Commenter
                                          George Soros
                                          Location
                                          figured it out a long time ago
                                          Date and time
                                          March 12, 2014, 2:22PM
                                          • Ed: 2.02 posting.... so Europe is a country now?

                                            Commenter
                                            ExJayOh
                                            Location
                                            Cyberspace
                                            Date and time
                                            March 12, 2014, 2:14PM
                                            • The problem with China is DEBT. What do you think the problem with Australia is?

                                              Commenter
                                              I wonder
                                              Date and time
                                              March 12, 2014, 2:04PM
                                              • Answer is simple:
                                                1. High dependence and unhealthy growth of the Financial system, Banks etc

                                                2. Lack of any support for any Australian Industry, be it Manufacturing etc.

                                                Conclusion: A highly skewed economy, exposed to increased o/seas competition, highly unstable, volatile and vulnerable to any influences, especially external factors. Highly and unhealthy reliance on Real Estate, a predominant sign of a very weakening economy, augmented by a fast ageing population.

                                                Commenter
                                                The True Realist
                                                Location
                                                Sydney
                                                Date and time
                                                March 12, 2014, 2:17PM
                                            • Doh!

                                              Commenter
                                              Pig headed
                                              Location
                                              iron bob
                                              Date and time
                                              March 12, 2014, 2:01PM
                                              • Surely The Reject Shop (TRS) is getting cheap?

                                                Commenter
                                                JohnBB
                                                Date and time
                                                March 12, 2014, 1:58PM
                                                • Cash Converters nearly back to $1. They will become the bank of first choice for an increasing number of Australians.

                                                  Commenter
                                                  Damo
                                                  Date and time
                                                  March 12, 2014, 2:11PM
                                                • MNY is in the same type of business, short-term loans to those who cannot get finance from the banking sector. I agree that both companies will do well thanks to harder times coming up. Higher unemployment and harder to get benefits at lower rates.

                                                  Commenter
                                                  mitch of ACT
                                                  Date and time
                                                  March 12, 2014, 2:22PM
                                                • @Damo - That's right when more people start losing their jobs.

                                                  Some people may have to prostitute themselves if Centrelink isn't enough lol

                                                  Commenter
                                                  Matt
                                                  Date and time
                                                  March 12, 2014, 2:31PM
                                                • @Damo..I agree.

                                                  Commenter
                                                  JohnBB
                                                  Date and time
                                                  March 12, 2014, 2:35PM
                                                • The Reject Shop is where people can buy products with their loose change, however, nobody has any left after they pay their essentials like inflated electricity bills because of the stinking carbon tax.

                                                  I have a watch on TRS but will only look at it seriously when Abbott & Hockey have fixed the diabolical mess the new paradigm has left behind!

                                                  Commenter
                                                  Aussie Al
                                                  Location
                                                  Adelaide
                                                  Date and time
                                                  March 12, 2014, 2:38PM
                                                • I don't own TRS but if it falls a bit more, I'm in...They sell essentials too but cheaper..As money tightens, people will be bothered to go there.

                                                  Yes, money lenders will also do well, haven't had a good look at them though.

                                                  Commenter
                                                  JohnBB
                                                  Date and time
                                                  March 12, 2014, 2:51PM
                                                • @Aussie Al "The stinking carbon tax" which most people were compensated for, particularly those on low incomes. Why is it that the "misery index" in the graph opposite starts to climb from Sept 13 onwards, you know, from the date at which your heroes were elected.

                                                  Commenter
                                                  mitch of ACT
                                                  Date and time
                                                  March 12, 2014, 2:55PM
                                                • Interesting how right wingers like Aussie Al only ever seem to pay inflated electricity bills. They never seem to pay phone bills which are a fraction of what they used to be or use free email rather than posting letters, or buy computers and other electrical goods which are a fraction of what they used to be, or buy clothes or plane tickets which are cheaper than they used to be.

                                                  Commenter
                                                  What can I complain about today
                                                  Date and time
                                                  March 12, 2014, 3:07PM
                                                • @mitch, you are correct "most people" were compensated for the carbon tax, once again leaving me to both pay the tax and the compensation....say hi to robin hood when you see him at your next labor meeting

                                                  Commenter
                                                  Wwwish Lion
                                                  Location
                                                  Melbourne
                                                  Date and time
                                                  March 12, 2014, 3:08PM
                                                • @What can I complain about today...None of which any of our politicians can take credit for.

                                                  Commenter
                                                  JohnBB
                                                  Date and time
                                                  March 12, 2014, 3:20PM
                                                • @What can I complain about today

                                                  Yeah the 50 cents here and there I save on postage stamps makes up for the extra $500k I pay for houses than I did 10 years ago LOL

                                                  Commenter
                                                  Come on now
                                                  Date and time
                                                  March 12, 2014, 3:21PM
                                                • @JOHNBB - TRS looking cheap based on fundamentals and technical at $9.00 look likes a buy in that range. Cheers

                                                  Commenter
                                                  Stoja
                                                  Location
                                                  GC
                                                  Date and time
                                                  March 12, 2014, 3:21PM
                                              • "The move to wind is expected to add about $1.30 a household a week to the cost of electricity, and generate 24 per cent of the city's electricity consumption by 2020."

                                                http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/wind-energy-to-power-80000-canberra-homes-20140311-34kox.html?rand=7629808#comments

                                                Wind is cheaper than new power stations.

                                                Oh and I have 100% green electricity for an extra 3c/kwh. And it's still cheaper than their advertised retail rate.

                                                It's not hard.

                                                Commenter
                                                Allan
                                                Location
                                                Prahran
                                                Date and time
                                                March 12, 2014, 1:58PM
                                                • "Abbott Government is seriously considering putting the clamp on foreign property buying in this year's Budget: ...we are hearing strong rumours that in the May Budget the government will shut down the Chinese property splurge"

                                                  Oh dear. Price of concrete floor space in the sky to plummet.

                                                  Stay tuned.

                                                  Commenter
                                                  Allan
                                                  Location
                                                  Prahran
                                                  Date and time
                                                  March 12, 2014, 1:50PM
                                                  • I'd love to see it happen, and it's possible, as the libs are the masters of populist policies that are irrelevant in the scheme of things but appeal to the illiterates (eg stop the boats!)

                                                    I'm going to be in the market for a luxury PPR apartment in June/July, so if someone is silly enough to sell me their property cheaper in the mistaken belief that this would reduce housing values in the long term, I'm not going to argue with them.

                                                    Medium to long term there would be reduced dwelling commencements as pre-sale targets will be harder to hit.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    pass the red
                                                    Date and time
                                                    March 12, 2014, 2:36PM
                                                  • please libs - do this, without a doubt the best move for Australia's future

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Genghis
                                                    Location
                                                    Lounge
                                                    Date and time
                                                    March 12, 2014, 3:22PM
                                                  • If Rabbit does this I will vote for him for rest of my life.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    xyz
                                                    Date and time
                                                    March 12, 2014, 4:48PM
                                                • NBN is in danger of being white-anted by the Telcos. Next step is to say that we don't need the NBN

                                                  Commenter
                                                  Gringo
                                                  Date and time
                                                  March 12, 2014, 1:47PM
                                                  • Wasn't that always the intention. Malcolm Turnbull's job is to destroy the NBN. 21st century technology is incompatible with 1950's Australia.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    mitch of ACT
                                                    Date and time
                                                    March 12, 2014, 2:13PM
                                                  • Yes it may be white anted by loopholes put in by Labor, but lets blame the Libs....Yawn.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Wwwish Lion
                                                    Location
                                                    Melbourne
                                                    Date and time
                                                    March 12, 2014, 2:31PM
                                                • Lots of commentary about gold and gold stocks today. It should be noted that exactly one year ago gold was $US1600 and right now is $US1357

                                                  Don't need to be a rocket scientist to work out what has happened to gold miners, furthermore the gold miners that are holding up best now will be the ones to be on if and when gold goes forward.

                                                  If the doomsayers are half right then gold can only go one way, history already tell us that!

                                                  Commenter
                                                  Gold Balls
                                                  Date and time
                                                  March 12, 2014, 1:28PM
                                                  • Yep. I sarcastically posted on here recently "more upside or downside for small Aussie gold miners from here?". Some had fallen to 1/10th their former share price. Great buying if you picked out a solvent one. Some who do capital raisings still have much more upside then downside risk.

                                                    Nice time to buy some and tuck away for the future. Obviously one day gold will be higher and those small gold miners will bounce strongly off those crazy lows.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Gordon Akman
                                                    Location
                                                    Broadbeach
                                                    Date and time
                                                    March 12, 2014, 1:46PM
                                                  • "history already tell us that!"

                                                    Be very careful if you invest on this basis.

                                                    Sad to say that's not true at all and if it was I wouldn't be out there trying to guess what will happen. It's called an inductive argument.

                                                    We all get comfort from history and now scientists worship at the altar of computer projections and nobody seems to want to face the fact that ALL these are just..guesses.

                                                    Algorithms the bane of an IT society and it's almost impossible to believe that we make policies that affect millions based on these assumption. It almost "Life of Brian" reasoning.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Harry Rogers
                                                    Date and time
                                                    March 12, 2014, 2:09PM
                                                  • The currency movement needs to be taken into account also. This time last year AUD / USD $1.029 That makes Gold $1553 Oz. AUD. This year .90C rate makes $1507 In AUD. I know a very simplistic approach a hedging etc needs to be considered, but not as big a difference as appears initially. Thoughts?

                                                    Commenter
                                                    G force
                                                    Location
                                                    Syd
                                                    Date and time
                                                    March 12, 2014, 2:12PM
                                                  • Have you factored in the exchange rate movement from exactly one year ago?

                                                    Commenter
                                                    upthecreek
                                                    Location
                                                    Sydney
                                                    Date and time
                                                    March 12, 2014, 2:40PM
                                                  • Re Featured Comment: USD1600 / 1.03 = 1553 and USD1357 / 0.89 = 1524 so gold is basically flat in AUD terms (down ~1%) over that time period. Newcrest one year ago was $22. Today $12. Buying opportunity?

                                                    Commenter
                                                    ExJayOh
                                                    Location
                                                    Cyberspace
                                                    Date and time
                                                    March 12, 2014, 2:42PM
                                                  • A contrarian view would be provided the company is sound, a company with ordinary SP growth has more growth potential than something that's doubled. Past SP performance need not be repeated. Exceptions will be 'speeding trains' best jumped aboard. I dont think any gold miners meet that definition with possible exception of NST.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Yin or yang
                                                    Date and time
                                                    March 12, 2014, 3:12PM
                                                • What will happen to Australia's debt if the currency goes to say $0.60US? Will debt increase by 50%? 30%? Will housing loans need to increase?

                                                  Commenter
                                                  JohnBB
                                                  Date and time
                                                  March 12, 2014, 1:23PM
                                                  • Citigroup chief global equity strategist ­Robert Buckland : “The thing that always worries me about Australia is that it runs a current account deficit, and that is even after god knows how many years of the most awesome commodity price increases you have ever seen...Brazil is the same. If you can’t have current account surplus in the last 10 years, when will you ever?..."

                                                    Not for at another 10 years or so,. Maybe...

                                                    Yikes! What's that going to do to the price of houses?

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Allan
                                                    Location
                                                    Prahran
                                                    Date and time
                                                    March 12, 2014, 1:19PM
                                                    • Is he forgetting we had a Labor government? quarter of a century and counting since a surplus from that bunch.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Wwwish Lion
                                                      Location
                                                      Melbourne
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 1:50PM
                                                    • If the deficit reflects an excess of imports over exports, it may be indicative of competitiveness problems, but because the current account deficit also implies an excess of investment over savings, it could equally be pointing to a highly productive, growing economy. If the deficit reflects low savings rather than high investment, it could be caused by reckless fiscal policy or a consumption binge. Or it could reflect perfectly sensible intertemporal trade, perhaps because of a temporary shock or shifting demographics. Without knowing which of these is at play, it makes little sense to talk of a deficit being "good" or "bad": deficits reflect underlying economic trends, which may be desirable or undesirable for a country at a particular point in time.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      BearShapedBull
                                                      Location
                                                      MugPunters Lounge
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 1:57PM
                                                    • as every local council in australia is on its knees begging for cash and as long as property values are linked to
                                                      1. council rates and
                                                      2. stamp duty and land tax
                                                      I can see state and local governments happy for house prices to continue up or stay high propping up another ponzi scheme.
                                                      the value of the property is a huge burden but then the ongoing rates and levies ( that new home / unit buyers arent often aware of ) are the real killers.
                                                      In Sydney for example you would be looking at at least $6000 a year - at least - for rates and strata levies on top of your mortgage for a $500000 apartment.
                                                      your going to need a 50 year mortgage to keep that puppy and I would not want to own a new apartment now in 50 years time. if its still standing

                                                      Commenter
                                                      smilingjack
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 2:07PM
                                                  • Andrew Wilkie reveals that governments are mainly interested in their in self preservation. Groups of yes-men who only get 3 years. We need long term representatives with the interest of the nation as their first priority.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Gringo
                                                    Date and time
                                                    March 12, 2014, 1:19PM
                                                    • You don't find many politicians in the Western wold that have their nations' long-term interests at heart. The ones that do quickly get labelled "wayyysists".

                                                      Short-term corporate profits and spending entitlements is the focus.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Dr No
                                                      Location
                                                      Sydney
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 1:32PM
                                                    • Agree with you Gringo and Dr No.

                                                      There won't be any wise leaders with Australia's interests at heart emerging from the ranks of today's Liberal or Labor parties, they are a bunch of ethically-corrupt, short-sighted sell-outs. Even if there are some decent people amongst them, the power lies elsewhere, with Uncle Rupert and Big Gina, or even further up the chain, at Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Fred
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 1:51PM
                                                    • The mob that just lost had implemented and were planning programs that would benefit us in the long term.

                                                      Didn't do them any favours, as the current mob kicked them out.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      d d
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 2:07PM
                                                    • Abbott's got a lot of competition for that title Fred.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      JohnBB
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 1:18PM
                                                  • "What's got Australian consumers feeling so blue?"

                                                    Um.. trapped in jobs they don't really like because they have a mountain of mortgage debt perhaps?

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Seriously?
                                                    Date and time
                                                    March 12, 2014, 1:11PM
                                                    • Ouuuuchhhhhhhhhhh....you've hit a nerve.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      So True
                                                      Location
                                                      Sydney
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 1:26PM
                                                    • Bazinga!

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Allan
                                                      Location
                                                      Prahran
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 1:48PM
                                                  • My one & only venture into the mining area in recent times... Mermaid Marine (MRM)

                                                    What a DOG!

                                                    Commenter
                                                    GS
                                                    Date and time
                                                    March 12, 2014, 1:03PM
                                                    • I feel your pain GS... the retail offering is going to be zero take up, so I wonder how much of the selling has been hedging from the underwriter... overall it's a sound company, and providing your timeframe is medium term then should be okay

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Chris
                                                      Location
                                                      Sydney
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 1:22PM
                                                    • lol yes I even said to myself today this is now a "medium" term hold.

                                                      And by that 6 months to the next div. At current price, yielding well for an oil & gas mining services company.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      GS
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 1:58PM
                                                    • Mining at sea?
                                                      Disappointing far as SP performance,but fundamentally there is a guaranteed market structure in place for their services in the offshore oil and gas industry,no-one is geared up to do it so in some ways they run a monopoly on the rich NW shelf,also moves into NT for support to the new Inpex projects and ongoing Conoco ops,they have a sound business model.Possible bad researching the offer prior to tabling it lead to overvaluations and SPP should have been pricing lower,only market forces will tell.Solid performer in the pas.i've held since 2007 and survived where others fell.Looooong into 2015 will see upside.Bout it.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      BearShapedBull
                                                      Location
                                                      MugPunters Lounge
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 2:05PM
                                                  • My left over CFX holding is now worth 0....code change? anyone know it,etrade got no idea.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    BearShapedBull
                                                    Location
                                                    MugPunters Lounge
                                                    Date and time
                                                    March 12, 2014, 12:50PM
                                                    • It seems CFX have delisted.
                                                      Some suggestion at this link.
                                                      http://www.asx.com.au/asx/research/companyInfo.do?by=asxCode&asxCode=CFX

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Learner
                                                      Location
                                                      Melbourne
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 1:14PM
                                                    • CFXDA.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Basic
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 2:30PM
                                                    • CFXDA olm8

                                                      Commenter
                                                      mushy
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 2:39PM
                                                    • why thank you @mushy @basic

                                                      Commenter
                                                      BearShapedBull
                                                      Location
                                                      MugPunters Lounge
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 2:57PM
                                                  • SBM up 7% what are you on about flanker?

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Allan
                                                    Location
                                                    Prahran
                                                    Date and time
                                                    March 12, 2014, 12:49PM
                                                    • thanks for biting...lol

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Half Back Flanker
                                                      Location
                                                      Prahran
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 1:38PM
                                                  • ADO keeps heading north,but you didnt want to know that @YorY,i tried jumping on at 0.225...missed it.Speeding ticket issued,volumes smells like takeover....could be some change in sub shareholders coming,watch for the UBS,MCQ or others,then its anyones guess where the SP goes.Moved on to other pasture.....VLA,TIS,NRT,BCT lately.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    BearShapedBull
                                                    Location
                                                    MugPunters Lounge
                                                    Date and time
                                                    March 12, 2014, 12:48PM
                                                    • ADO. Might be something big or might just be a bubble. Plenty of examples of the later lately. Hard to buy something at 24c when you just missed 16c but I may still take the plunge.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Yin or yang
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 3:34PM
                                                    • Probably another P @ D like PDN.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      xyz
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 4:51PM
                                                  • A 2.5-month-old uptrend is in place on the daily bar chart for Gold. Bulls have the overall near-term technical advantage. The gold bulls’ next upside near-term price breakout objective is to produce a close above solid technical resistance at the March high of $1,355.00. Bears' next near-term downside breakout price objective is closing prices below solid technical support at $1,318.70. Spot prices currently up $10.30 to $1360.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Kyle Bass
                                                    Date and time
                                                    March 12, 2014, 12:44PM
                                                    • Quick buy the miners because an Australian fund manager/broker told you to!

                                                      LOL

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Lambs
                                                      Location
                                                      to the slaughter
                                                      Date and time
                                                      March 12, 2014, 12:38PM
                                                      • gold is just about to start a little run, jump on quick!

                                                        Commenter
                                                        Gold balls
                                                        Date and time
                                                        March 12, 2014, 12:34PM
                                                        • Chinese hooking into gold at open!

                                                          Silver got a nice little rocket up as well,

                                                          Commenter
                                                          Gold Balls
                                                          Date and time
                                                          March 12, 2014, 12:56PM
                                                        • A good thing I stocked up on Physical Gold. I think long term it is bullish

                                                          Commenter
                                                          Matt
                                                          Date and time
                                                          March 12, 2014, 1:01PM
                                                      • Days like today give the shorters some relief, however the ASX200 is still looking very strong to me!

                                                        Looking @ 5600 by end of FY.

                                                        ps - has anyone seen Liberator, been a long time?

                                                        Commenter
                                                        Mister5100
                                                        Date and time
                                                        March 12, 2014, 12:32PM
                                                        • Day of the NINMBY is ending. GenY want to build a house in the park down the road from you. Populate at your peril Australia.

                                                          Commenter
                                                          JohnBB
                                                          Date and time
                                                          March 12, 2014, 12:31PM
                                                          • "UniCredit reported a massive net loss for the fourth quarter, as a result of an aggressive cleanup of its balance sheet ahead of a coming health check by European regulators"

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Record global DEBT
                                                            Location
                                                            Zombie banks and balance sheets everywhere
                                                            Date and time
                                                            March 12, 2014, 12:30PM
                                                            • At $75.50 CBA is a short term trading bargain, load up!

                                                              Commenter
                                                              Money for Nothing
                                                              Location
                                                              Dire Straights
                                                              Date and time
                                                              March 12, 2014, 12:24PM
                                                              • "With nervousness about the near term outlook for the China economy, is it time to also worry about Japan?"

                                                                There's never a need to worry if you have a balanced portfolio that is truly hedged and not overly dependent on any particular asset class, currency, commodity, domestic stock market, or individual stocks.

                                                                The main problem I have with Japan's situation is global competition. When Japan was doing great more than two decades ago they had very little international competition for the goods they sold. Since then Taiwan became a competitor in some areas, then South Korea, then China, now numerous developing economies etc.

                                                                Japan is trying to become more competitive particularly relative to South Korea but I still think Samsung shares are cheap and no matter what Japan do with product pricing/their currency Samsung's share of the global electronics market will not only not go down but will actually increase in the foreseeable future.

                                                                Commenter
                                                                Gordon Akman
                                                                Location
                                                                Broadbeach
                                                                Date and time
                                                                March 12, 2014, 12:17PM
                                                                • Last sbm postion close netted 24%. What's half back clanker on about?

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  Allan
                                                                  Location
                                                                  Prahran
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  March 12, 2014, 12:07PM
                                                                  • "I have to admire my friends in France, Italy, and Spain for sweating it out under ECB tutelage with scarcely a word of protest, but the result is that their public debt ratios are rising at a galloping rate despite deep fiscal austerity. Their jobless rates have gone through the roof." http://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/suffer-if-you-want-but-there-is-such-a-thing-as-a-free-lunch-20140312-34lbk.html#ixzz2vhocVHRN That's what happens with austerity budgets. Public debt soars because benefit payments increase and the taxes that would have been collected from wages and business profits plummet as employment and businesses are wiped out. That's what the Libs wanted to do to us in response to the GFC. Yet there's still some economic illiterates who think that was the right thing to do and voted accordingly. Yes Australia does have a large debt, but we still have a viable economy to pay off that debt and if we follow the British example, may never need to.

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    mitch of ACT
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    March 12, 2014, 12:04PM
                                                                    • RE 11;32. Paladin/Uranium

                                                                      So what was with the Uranium Miner pump & dump the last couple of weeks?

                                                                      Isn't Japan about to re-activate the plants? That was the announcement that pumped them all up? Now what? :/ lol

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      GS
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      March 12, 2014, 11:49AM
                                                                      • I agree PDN looks better than 10 days ago. The market for their yellowcake has grown. Personally I'll stay clear - heavy losses, high debt for too long.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Yin or yang
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 2:52PM
                                                                    • They say pregnancy is taking seriously what was poked at you in fun. The ASX is taking the 0.41% drop on the DOW last night very seriously.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      mitch of ACT
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      March 12, 2014, 11:43AM
                                                                      • @mitch of ACT, it's a Wednesday, ASX is supposed to be down, it'll be up on the days when it's supposed to be up.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Clark
                                                                        Location
                                                                        SA
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 11:59AM
                                                                      • An analysis I did of trading patterns a while ago and kept up to date shows that for the period 1/7/12 to present, Mondays and Thursdays are the down days. If you only start from 1/7/13, the down days are Mondays and Wednesdays. Going by my reference above, it's like having an ovulation calculator.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        mitch of ACT
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 12:13PM
                                                                      • @Mitch. Check out Virtus VRT. They have a solution for your problem.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Wally
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 1:26PM
                                                                      • thanks for that

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Polly & Anna
                                                                        Location
                                                                        Prahran
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 11:36AM
                                                                    • While short selling is frequently vilified and short sellers viewed as ruthless operators out to destroy companies, the reality is that short selling provides liquidity to the markets and prevents stocks from being bid up to ridiculously high levels on hype and over-optimism.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      ShortSqueeze
                                                                      Location
                                                                      Buy-in
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      March 12, 2014, 11:31AM
                                                                      • I like the safety of dividends too much to even think about shorting, but you make an excellent point.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Half Back Flanker
                                                                        Location
                                                                        Prahran
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 11:40AM
                                                                      • No, instead stocks are forced down to ridiculous levels and the wealth of all shareholders destroyed. Don't defend the indefensible for selfish reasons.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        mitch of ACT
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 11:45AM
                                                                      • Woking the market both ways is a concept that keeps an active investor in with a chance...ie to win or lose.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        BearShapedBull
                                                                        Location
                                                                        MugPunters Lounge
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 12:04PM
                                                                      • Short selling is a vital component of price discovery. The market needs a mechanism for those who believe a stock is over valued to put their belief into actions.

                                                                        It can be abused, but the problem is with the abuser, not the instrument.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Jimmy
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 12:15PM
                                                                      • Short selling hardly shareholders of wealth or forces down the price of valuable companies. If you take even a moment to look at what has happened to stock prices when short selling is banned (they spike and then collapse) or what happens to stock prices from 'short squeezes' they would appear to have the capability to do quite the opposite of what you suggest. If you are only looking at the market from one side you are doomed to failure.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        jezza
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 12:17PM
                                                                      • You buy a share in a company because you believe in the company’s earning and future potential. However, if an investor failed to do a thorough research on a company’s Earning per share, price/Earning and Dividend and then over paid for its share and then lost in the process then it’s a fair game and a pure representation of what a stock market stand for.
                                                                        But,
                                                                        When fund managers drive companies’ share down because they have the money and tools to do so at the expense of lesser lucky investors, and then buy the same shares cheaper later on is absolutely unethical and completely the opposite of what a stock market stand for.

                                                                        That’s why I see short selling is unethical and unprofessional and can’t understand why it’s legal. Just an opinion.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Dividends’ lover
                                                                        Location
                                                                        Auckland
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 1:03PM
                                                                    • Why were so many people on here sold by Australian fund managers/brokers that BDR was the pick of the small Aussie gold miners?

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Please
                                                                      Location
                                                                      answer my question
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      March 12, 2014, 11:30AM
                                                                      • Well it is not going very well I agree, but how is your SBM going? ouch....

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Half Back Flanker
                                                                        Location
                                                                        Prahran
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 11:41AM
                                                                      • Look at the numbers. But I do have to agree SP performance to date - pathetic!

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Yin or yang
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 11:45AM
                                                                      • Being a shorter I thought this would have been right up your alley!

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Gordon Bleu
                                                                        Location
                                                                        Prahran
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 11:51AM
                                                                      • "Oh look another 11% on SBM, add that to 24% from the last long...."

                                                                        www.smh.com.au/business/markets-live/markets-live-share-gains-fizzle-20140225-33dtb.html#ixzz2vhr9EKTL

                                                                        You were saying?

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Allan
                                                                        Location
                                                                        Prahran
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 12:09PM
                                                                      • No one has mentioned DRM. Going along steadily, flying under the radar

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Red Rooster
                                                                        Location
                                                                        19th Hole
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 12:09PM
                                                                      • DRM looks to be a beauty. They got in at the right time and have an enviable cost structure. I'm just scared off by the fact they have only one mine in production. If there's any problems (which often happen in mining operations) they could be a bit sketchy.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        DRM fan
                                                                        Location
                                                                        only one mine scares me though
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 12:46PM
                                                                      • SBM up 7%. You were saying?

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Allan
                                                                        Location
                                                                        Prahran
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 1:25PM
                                                                    • So at a time of rising unemployment Tony Abbott plans to flood Australia with cheap foreign labour via 457 visas.

                                                                      STOP THE BOATS (and then bring in extra plane loads of people)

                                                                      Abbott you are a fool.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Fred
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      March 12, 2014, 11:28AM
                                                                      • no, he's not a fool...just doing what he's told.... just like Julia did

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        toaster
                                                                        Location
                                                                        Vic
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 11:53AM
                                                                      • Abbott is doing the bidding of Gina Reinhart and the rest of the big end of town who want a flood of cheap imported labour to help drive down local wages.

                                                                        The whole boat people scare was just playing politics. All those workers who got suckered in by the scare campaign are now facing the REAL threat to the their jobs and livelihoods. Like turkeys who voted for Christmas!

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Mr Reality
                                                                        Location
                                                                        waverton
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 12:34PM
                                                                      • if you owed a company and had to drop $100K + and super and all types of leave on 100's of staff and had the option of employing the same amount of people on $50K with no extras would you do it?
                                                                        there are literally millions of highly qualified people floating around desperate for work.double degrees and decades of experience under their belts.
                                                                        It was inevitable they would end up here. its called due diligence and every board would be looking at it.
                                                                        its called capitalism. thats how capitalism works. pay less earn more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        smilingjack
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 12:47PM
                                                                      • @PP...You don't think the politics that will unfold from this are not economics? Funny.

                                                                        To be successful at investing, you need to know exactly what's going on and predict what might come next. Good luck to you PP if you think it's as simple as stock selection while ignoring the macro influence of politics..

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        JohnBB
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 11:21AM
                                                                      • I agree JohnBB our political establishment is a joke! Liberal and Labor are as bad as each other (though Abbott is shaping up to be the greatest disaster we've had)

                                                                        Personally I think Australia needs someone like Ron Paul

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Fred
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 11:21AM
                                                                    • Just sold half of my BHP shares.

                                                                      Can someone please tell me that was a great thing to do? The moment after I hit sell I had a feeling I just did something stupid!

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Fred
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      March 12, 2014, 11:18AM
                                                                      • And if I had been the one that bought them I would probably be feeling a bit stupid too.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        mitch of ACT
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 11:26AM
                                                                      • I shorted 'em at 38.88 so I would say ... yup.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        jezza
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 11:29AM
                                                                      • There is a massive oversupply problem with iron ore. If you believe in risk management then sell them all.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Gringo
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 11:32AM
                                                                      • If anyone truly knows the answer to that one, they are not sitting on this blog trying to get information to make decisions. So many conflicting views. BHP's profits are doomed by so much with each $1 drop in iron price on one hand. On other hand, future profits will be boosted significantly by smaller players being squeezed out. Selling half is probably prudent, but you are going to regret either way. If price goes up, you'll regret selling half and if it goes down more, you'll regret keeping half :-)

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        confused
                                                                        Location
                                                                        syd
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 11:40AM
                                                                      • Only time will tell.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        PP
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 11:40AM
                                                                      • Taking profits almost always good. Iron ore price will hurt but I'd expect BHP back to >$38 soonish. .If you regret your decision buy em back at $35.30 ish

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Yin or yang
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 11:41AM
                                                                      • Just let go...
                                                                        I notice some attachment to a stock gets emotional? remember "a stock doesnt care who owns it" and "buy low/sell high".we are in this for 1 thing,making coin,if you had a profit then tell yourself its a good decision,realising profits is the number one thing when selling,on paper equities are nothing until you sell...really.Hindsight always works but it doesnt help to make decisions....coulda,shoulda,didnt.I always do my best to have a target price,when it gets there its your call,just do it,as with all stocks yu could buy back in lower at sometime in the future,just check the chart.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        BearShapedBull
                                                                        Location
                                                                        MugPunters Lounge
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 12:00PM
                                                                      • Agree with BSB. Throw a stop in above where you bought 'em. If you get taken out you walk with a profit -- if it turns and heads higher then you make a bit more. Just put in a trailing stop. It is what have done with BHP short. Barring a massive gap up it locks in some sort of profit.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        jezza
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 12:30PM
                                                                    • Interesting to see New Jersey just banned the direct sale of automobiles. Texas has a similar policy. I agree with it. Multiple dealers = competition and customer choice. If you can only buy a Tesla from one Tesla owned/controlled showroom that won't be good for consumers in my opinion.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Gordon Akman
                                                                      Location
                                                                      Broadbeach
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      March 12, 2014, 11:15AM
                                                                      • thanks for that

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Polly & Anna
                                                                        Location
                                                                        Prahran
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 11:36AM
                                                                    • "We haven't seen confidence numbers like these since the GFC, the early 90s recession and the 1987 share market crash." Matt Assad Westpac

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Gordon Akman
                                                                      Location
                                                                      Broadbeach
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      March 12, 2014, 11:11AM
                                                                        • The fall in consumer confidence can be directly attributed to the fact that the Libs have shown that improvements in jobs, wages and working conditions are not their priority, rather they seem intent on the reverse. Consumers are developing a declining sense of security in their future. Response, don't spend.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          mitch of ACT
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:32AM
                                                                        • still trying fear tactics Al...hilarious!

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          Half Back Flanker
                                                                          Location
                                                                          Prahran
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:37AM
                                                                        • I wonder if that is the same Assad that occasionally preaches about the "eternal abyss of the second great depression" in these comments?

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          Fred
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:38AM
                                                                        • Agree Mitch....under Abbott all we get is an environment of little hope. Labor were bad, Liberal are outright depressing.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          Oracle
                                                                          Location
                                                                          Oberon
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 1:59PM
                                                                      • Add to QAN long 1.10. Gift.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Allan
                                                                        Location
                                                                        Prahran
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 11:09AM
                                                                        • I'd even think twice about buying a Qantas ticket!

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          Yin or yang
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:43AM
                                                                        • Should have waited, they will be less than $1 next week and circa 50 cents at years end!

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          Liberace
                                                                          Location
                                                                          Broadbeach
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 12:05PM
                                                                        • Hope you're joking.
                                                                          Have you not suffered enough?
                                                                          lol.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          no banks .. no party!
                                                                          Location
                                                                          it's not that hard
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 12:31PM
                                                                        • you'll be able to get a few more at 0.90 next week too

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          simon
                                                                          Location
                                                                          box hill
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 12:50PM
                                                                      • "The proportion of Australians with solar panels more than doubled in the past three years, from 7.5 per cent in March 2011 to 16 per cent - more than 3 million people - by the end of 2013."

                                                                        www.theage.com.au/victoria/solar-power-booms-as-cranky-customers-choose-change-20140311-34kg6.html#ixzz2vhaheSnd

                                                                        Bye bye king coal you dirty old soul.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Allan
                                                                        Location
                                                                        Prahran
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 11:05AM
                                                                        • dont forget the biggy. solar hot water. hot water is about 1/3 of the average electricity bill.
                                                                          solar is gold. its the little things in life like enjoying a free 15 minute hot shower or 2 everyday.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          smilingjack
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:33AM
                                                                        • Then there's all of the new wind farms. http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/wind-energy-to-power-80000-canberra-homes-20140311-34kox.html
                                                                          The "climate change is crap" Libs are getting left behind, where they belong. They didn't have solar power or wind farms back in the '50s.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          mitch of ACT
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:35AM
                                                                        • Oil derived from algae just dipped under US$200 a barrel down from $600 last year . Should be under $100 end of next year . Direct replacement for crude and renewable

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          Frank From the Country
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 1:33PM
                                                                      • ACR @ 1.89,hoping its the bottom.......

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        BearShapedBull
                                                                        Location
                                                                        MugPunters Lounge
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 10:54AM
                                                                        • I've stayed away since ex-div, currently 1.88 and tempted. I just don't have that same feeling for it anymore. Could be a good trading stock now. Swings are pretty quick and large, but don't want to get caught with the FDA or any other legal action.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          GS
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:13AM
                                                                        • nah 1.86,didnt pick it,back to the Ouija board.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          BearShapedBull
                                                                          Location
                                                                          MugPunters Lounge
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 12:02PM
                                                                      • I don't get these Westpac results. Here on the Gold Coast there's lots of confident people. They strut around with puffed up steroid built bodies and have some quite intricate drawings on themselves. Just don't ask about their education levels and ability to produce and honest days wages though...

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Confidence and Sentiment
                                                                        Location
                                                                        Surveyor
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 10:34AM
                                                                        • to make matters worse, at least half of those you describe are kiwis

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          brian
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:12AM
                                                                      • PRT sell walls are breaking down and being loaded on the opposite side. Boost to $1+ is nearing!

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        GS
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 10:25AM
                                                                        • Beware PRT. Someone at the close of trade was trying to offload nearly 2m at 91.5c. Probably shares bought at 87c in that sell-off the other day from a previous substantial holder. The order was withdrawn when the closing auction failed to reach that price. They might have been able to sell some today when the price went past that. Let's hope so. We don't
                                                                          need big parcels acting as a price-blocker.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          mitch of ACT
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:13AM
                                                                        • I'm banning myself from posting about PRT on here because every time I do, it drops..... THEY'RE WATCHING US! :O

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          GS
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:15AM
                                                                        • Looks like there won't be much trading on PRT for the rest of the day, what games the big boys are playing (against each other?)... fascinating to watch

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          GPS
                                                                          Location
                                                                          QLD
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:47AM
                                                                        • If you pick u millions of shares at 87c it would normally take a very long time to off-load them on market (In PRT specifically).

                                                                          Perhaps they are shorting in the 90s and then returning the borrowed stock at 87c. It would be an easy way to make 4-8c guaranteed profit on a few million shares.

                                                                          LET'S NOT FORGET THE SHORTING MASTERS UBS HANDLED THE 87C TRANSACTION...Good ol' UBS ;)

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          GS
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 12:25PM
                                                                      • The recent iron ore price decline may be favourable to big miners as it will shake out marginal players and freeze out new capacity creation. I suspect lifting volumes, reducing average cost of production and even price discounting could be sound short-term strategies.
                                                                        To create investment certainiy, perhaps some will go back to yearly fixed price and volume contracts.
                                                                        The Chinese government and steel industry will also be making counter moves to protect their industry and jobs. China's economy simply cannot grow at 7.5% without increasing steel consumption.

                                                                        There is lot more to it than meets the eye.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Ronn
                                                                        Location
                                                                        Sydney
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 10:07AM
                                                                        • Good to see some wider understanding Ronn. See my note below too.

                                                                          BTW, one thing that absolutely will not happen is a return to annual prices. That makes no sense for either party in the long run. In any event the steel mills (China) won't do it now, as they are presently benefitting from a sliding price.

                                                                          R.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          Roadsta
                                                                          Location
                                                                          Brisneyland
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 10:36AM
                                                                        • "China's economy simply cannot grow at 7.5% without increasing steel consumption."

                                                                          Of course it can and it must. The level of services provided to people is more important that blocks of empty flats. 500M Chinese still can't afford to see a doctor.

                                                                          The switch to services from uneconomic infrastructure spending was flagged by Ross Garnaut 2 years ago when he warned "Australians to prepare for a serious decline in living standards as the resources boom gives way to falling export prices and a slump in the development of mines"

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          Allan
                                                                          Location
                                                                          Prahran
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 10:37AM
                                                                        • That's fine provided China still wants or even is able to grow at 7.5%. That very high rate of growth is causing problems in air pollution, its credit markets and social dislocation. China could cut back its growth to consolidate its position and fix the problems before embarking on a new wave. If it does that the decline in metal prices is here to stay. I hold very few mining stocks (thank God) altho the many LICS I invest in do hold those stocks.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          mitch of ACT
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:00AM
                                                                        • A good, common sense, thought provoking comment.
                                                                          The monoliths use opportunity when opportunity arises.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          PP
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:05AM
                                                                        • I disagree. we live in a virtual world. china has empty cities waiting to be filled. 8 years ago my eldest child started school. no one dreamed of an iphone and tablets were a thing of fantasy and I was working at the very pointy end of IT and telecommunications in australia at the time. dial up was the norm. today every child compulsorily requires a tablet to attend school and iphones are so yesterday. they dont write and all information is stored on a cloud. driverless cars are around the corner.
                                                                          in another 8 years time we will be living in another world. maybe steel and copper wont be such a big part of it.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          smilingjack
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:08AM
                                                                        • Sorry but it sounds like a lot of wishful thinking.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          jezza
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:31AM
                                                                      • Iron ore:

                                                                        Before all the pessimists scream 'toldya' - as recently as Sept 12 we saw prices in the mid- $80s. It was not the end then, as it is not now.

                                                                        R.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Roadsta
                                                                        Location
                                                                        BV
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 10:06AM
                                                                        • Of course there will be swings and roundabouts but the Chinese are clearly getting serious about reforming their economy and that means less government stimulus spending on infrastructure and tightening credit for steel makers which means that as the year approaches its end DOWN, DOWN, DOWN !!!

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          Catch 22
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:05AM
                                                                        • Long term price of iron ore is @ $40.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          Allan
                                                                          Location
                                                                          Prahran
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:53AM
                                                                      • Message to GenY......You and your children have been rorted by the Greens, Labor and LNP, but mostly by your parents who voted for any of those three..

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        JohnBB
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 10:06AM
                                                                        • Stable house prices for FHB would be a fine achievement. There are ways for FHBs to obtain an affordable house now, but it requires government policies. The mortgage is the killer for FHBs so it is in this area that needs to be tweaked. As for price control, forget it.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          Wally
                                                                          Location
                                                                          Flynn
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 10:41AM
                                                                        • ED: That is a political comment, and has nothing to do with this forum.
                                                                          Keep on track or lose credibility!

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          PP
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 10:58AM
                                                                        • its called capitalism. you all voted for it. you are all traders out to make a buck any which way you can. buy sell buy sell. housing is a commodity like any other. the rich who buy properties like you buy a few shares - with the trusts and structures pay little tax and only care about the next million. if its through property - so be it. its only just starting too as the right and extreme right get more power world wide with the TPP set up to benefit them. in the words of BTO - you aint seen nothin yet!

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          smilingjack
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:15AM
                                                                      • "The recent slide in iron ore prices was "inevitable", with a price above $US100 a tonne still too high, the head of China's biggest-listed steel maker Baoshan Iron & Steel (Baosteel) says."

                                                                        Housing boom!

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Allan
                                                                        Location
                                                                        Prahran
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 10:04AM
                                                                        • I think that guy has an interest in talking down iron ore prices. I wouldn't base any decisions on what he says.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          Groundswell
                                                                          Location
                                                                          GC
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 10:17AM
                                                                        • I think the whole country - from a macro economic perspective - has an interest in lowering the price of iron ore and finally release some pressure from our overheated economy.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          Dr No
                                                                          Location
                                                                          Sydney
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 10:45AM
                                                                        • @Dr No - surely the iron ore revenue is useful to Australia and would be even more so, if we had a better mining tax. Overheated economy?

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          Yin or yang
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:12AM
                                                                        • Market commodity prices fluctuate every single day,some volitility in prices more pronounced due to shorting,hedgefunds,speculators and the big wolrd players manipulating the market prices to their own advantages,the simple supply/demand curve doesnt seem to play out much.All these combining factors means any predictions,futures and analysis could all be wrong again tomorrow.The price is the price,downtrends happen as well as uptrends,over-reaction is commonplace.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          BearShapedBull
                                                                          Location
                                                                          MugPunters Lounge
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:15AM
                                                                        • MND pretty much given up all the gains from LNG contract announce,next.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          BearShapedBull
                                                                          Location
                                                                          MugPunters Lounge
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:20AM
                                                                        • @yin or yang - I do agree that a resource tax would be useful ... but only if the proceeds of the tax was invested abroad in a sovereign fund. Unfortunately our short-term politicians would probably waste the money on government domestic spending or tax breaks, both would result in continued excessive spending in our economy.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          Dr No
                                                                          Location
                                                                          Sydney
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 11:50AM
                                                                      • Here's another addition to the list of companies that dissolve shareholder interests !!
                                                                        Hocus Pocus, Please welcome VOCUS !!

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Clueless
                                                                        Location
                                                                        Wonderland
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        March 12, 2014, 10:01AM
                                                                        • in Taylor's Lakes yet?

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          POP
                                                                          Location
                                                                          A weasel
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          March 12, 2014, 10:00AM
                                                                          • After 4 days Malaysia comes out and confirms its aircraft was way off course. Can we believe anything they say?

                                                                            Commenter
                                                                            Gringo
                                                                            Date and time
                                                                            March 12, 2014, 9:59AM
                                                                            • Doesn't matter it is a modern media delight. The space between fact and fiction has been narrowed to the point of none existance. Nothing more than the modern media loves, the opportunity to speculate without restraint, create your own news as any news is as worthy as any other news be it based on fact or fiction.

                                                                              Even had this newspaper running a report on the speculation itself including accounts of UFO abductions.

                                                                              All hail the right to feed the masses absolutely anything as a well informed public and educated media are not a requirement of human progress.

                                                                              Commenter
                                                                              Joe the POM
                                                                              Location
                                                                              Geelong
                                                                              Date and time
                                                                              March 12, 2014, 11:21AM
                                                                            • that plane is parked in a hangar somewhere getting repainted.
                                                                              it was flying over some of the most densely populated regions in the world. if it went down over land someone would have seen it. if it went into the drink there would be debris everywhere. we are supposed to believe that a person can be tracked from orbit but they cant find a plane constantly pinging IFF with 250 odd smart devices on board? seriously something is fishy beyond belief here and with the current world situation and certain countries propensity for duplicity Im looking in one direction. funny that the same country ( and no others ) had investigators on foreign soil almost immediately and were the ones pointing the finger at a country they are desperate to invade - again.

                                                                              Commenter
                                                                              smilingjack
                                                                              Date and time
                                                                              March 12, 2014, 11:44AM
                                                                          • You can't have a first world lifestyle without first world wages. 500M Chinese making $30/week are demanding better wages. That means less money to pay bonanza metal prices.

                                                                            Commenter
                                                                            Allan
                                                                            Location
                                                                            Prahran
                                                                            Date and time
                                                                            March 12, 2014, 9:58AM
                                                                            • Darwin is on its knees due a circuit breaker. Come on.

                                                                              Commenter
                                                                              Gringo
                                                                              Date and time
                                                                              March 12, 2014, 9:58AM
                                                                              • funny that? isnt there a giant military base there currently leased by a foreign country that hates muslims ie indonesians and malaysians? who are filling it with who knows what. not a whole lot of anything between malaysia and darwin. you could fly 10 747's side by side from malaysia into australia and no one would see a thing. the entire city blacked out from 1am in the morning. well I never....

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                smilingjack
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                March 12, 2014, 11:51AM
                                                                            • Beginning of the end or BAU ???

                                                                              Commenter
                                                                              Clueless
                                                                              Location
                                                                              Wonderland
                                                                              Date and time
                                                                              March 12, 2014, 9:58AM
                                                                              • @mitch...You're a smart guy, very left, but smart...Surely you can see, if the top tiers are being bought by Chinese (or Canadian, French, whatever), then it leaves the lower tiers to be fought over by more people chasing fewer properties..Yes? No?

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                JohnBB
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                March 12, 2014, 9:57AM
                                                                                • @JohnBB Only if more top-tier properties are not being built/made available. All of the reports say that the higher o/seas demand is stimulating more building activity at the higher end of the market. Given the rather poor quality of new building these days, the o/seas buyers are welcome to them. I wouldn't buy anything new and certainly not off the plan. Far too much risk of leaking roof, cracking walls and generally shoddy work.

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  mitch of ACT
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  March 12, 2014, 10:25AM
                                                                                • see reservoir / preston in melbourne. 1920's double brick houses being ripped down hand over fist and replaced with 4 and 5+ townhouses of rendered blueboard. nothing screams structural integrity and long life life rendered blueboard. I saw something else first hand in newtown / marrickville where houses were replaced and yards paved over. all the rainwater was diverted into drains. no water made it into the ground which subsequently dried up. buildings opened up with gaping holes and no amount of underpinning could repair them.
                                                                                  there is no difference between the old housing commission estates and these new townhouse cities - except the housing commission places were quality built double brick and had a backyard. I can see slums in the not too distant future.

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  smilingjack
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  March 12, 2014, 11:27AM
                                                                              • For the gold enthusiasts.

                                                                                Gold price 12 Dec = US$1227
                                                                                Gold price 12 Mar = US$1348

                                                                                A selection of gold miners (that I follow) - order of market cap (Dec SP first, March SP second):

                                                                                NCM 7.51 11.39
                                                                                RRL 2.98 2.55
                                                                                EVN 60 92
                                                                                NST 68.2 1.17
                                                                                BDR 74.7 72.5
                                                                                SLR 44 44.5
                                                                                SBM 30 35

                                                                                Illustrative only and a wide range of special factors. But clearly some have not responded to the increase in the gold price. Whether that's because they are 'duds', heavily shorted and/or undervalued - matter of opinion.

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                Yin or yang
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                March 12, 2014, 9:56AM
                                                                                • This basically seperates the 'good' from the 'bad'. Rated 'SLR' much higher & not sure if BDR is the one to buy now...

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  clueless
                                                                                  Location
                                                                                  wonderland
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  March 12, 2014, 10:36AM
                                                                                • Good info @ Yin or yang. I remember you have shares in BDR. Why do you believe they not performing up too expectations. From a gold price perspective and stronger ASX200, you would assume they would be a lot higher. They also have sales hedged at $US1600. Any thoughts?

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  "P" Plater
                                                                                  Location
                                                                                  Gundagai
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  March 12, 2014, 10:37AM
                                                                                • nice work YorY
                                                                                  dont forget
                                                                                  TRY 0.97 1.23
                                                                                  worth keeping an eye on as well,has done kind things for me in the past,cycling.

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  BearShapedBull
                                                                                  Location
                                                                                  MugPunters Lounge
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  March 12, 2014, 11:29AM
                                                                                • @clueless, any reason why you rate SLR ahead of BDR? This time last year SLR closed @ $2.22 and BDR closed @ $0.88.

                                                                                  To me that would indicate BDR is holding up to today's conditions much more favourably. Can you clarify please.

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  Gold Balls
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  March 12, 2014, 11:29AM
                                                                                • @P Plater. BDR should be doing better on its fundamentals. Profoundly profitable operations. I'll keep buying at even lower prices. At some point I'd expect/hope the 'swarm of shorters' will move on. I'll either be patient and/or trade the dips and surges.

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  Yin or yang
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  March 12, 2014, 11:38AM
                                                                                • @clueless,Goldballs
                                                                                  SLR rated higher.....pah if you saw the production costs from murchison operations around $2038/oz and still running,the flag went up.After a buggled expansion,now a "surprise" capital raising that diluted smallholders down to 30% under,nah a managment that doesnt play a team game....short it or stay away,former darling [$3.50 dec 2012]now deadbeat....lucky to see 75c again,maybe takeover target but oncoming "care and maintenance" will hurt more if the gold $ drops.2c from me.

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  BearShapedBull
                                                                                  Location
                                                                                  MugPunters Lounge
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  March 12, 2014, 11:46AM
                                                                                • TRY + another 7% today...i may contemplate a thinning of my current position.

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  BearShapedBull
                                                                                  Location
                                                                                  MugPunters Lounge
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  March 12, 2014, 1:36PM
                                                                              • The Abbott government is opening up the flood gates to foreign 457 workers again. This government obviously think it more important for business to get cheap labor than to preserve the ethnic make-up of this country.

                                                                                Anybody who calls Abbott a "conservative" should have their head examined. The first thing a true conservative would conserve would be his people. Abbott doesn't, he is clearly a liberal.

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                Dr No
                                                                                Location
                                                                                Sydney
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                March 12, 2014, 9:49AM
                                                                                • Yet another step down the path of Work Choices by the back door. Allow a huge pool of unemployed to build up to depress wages and conditions. Penalty rates and other conditions will be bargained away to get or keep a job.

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  mitch of ACT
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  March 12, 2014, 10:28AM
                                                                                • it also eliminates union members. you cant have a union if you dont have union members who are workers.

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  smilingjack
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  March 12, 2014, 4:47PM
                                                                              • Has the house bubble burst yet lol.

                                                                                Sorry Hugo I beat you to it haha

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                Hugo the 2nd
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                March 12, 2014, 9:48AM
                                                                                • in Prahran only!

                                                                                  http://nostromodomo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/o-UNDER-THE-DOME-facebook.jpg

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  POP
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  March 12, 2014, 10:13AM
                                                                              • Please please please open up the "17 year old raking in 45000 a week" story for comments

                                                                                http://www.smh.com.au/small-business/franchising/the-17yearold-raking-in-45000-a-week-20140311-34ke0.html

                                                                                Good on him for duping so many people, but he's just a snake oil salesman.

                                                                                I have magic rocks to sell. By themselves, the magic rocks do nothing, but combined with massive dietary and lifestyle changes, the magic rocks can assist with weight loss. Pffffffft.

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                wildlife photographer of the year
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                March 12, 2014, 9:44AM
                                                                                • If people are stupud to pay 700K for a single bed unit with no parking in Pyrmont,,, they will pay for "wight loss tea" from 17 year old who with medical qualification gained by "talking to his junior basketball coaching staff" . Teat that sports "Australia" in its name yet is made by blenders in "China" using *cough* organic *cough* ingrediants...

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  Dj77
                                                                                  Location
                                                                                  Sydney
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  March 12, 2014, 10:33AM
                                                                                • "A naturopath contacted by Fairfax agreed that this kind of tea can improve the digestive system and increase metabolic rate "

                                                                                  So can a can of coke. Naturopaths? Pffftt.

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  Allan
                                                                                  Location
                                                                                  Prahran
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  March 12, 2014, 10:44AM
                                                                                • Jealousy is a curse apparently, good on the lad!

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  MInt
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  March 12, 2014, 10:44AM
                                                                              • The copper debacle shows how the little guy has got no chance.

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                Gringo
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                March 12, 2014, 9:42AM
                                                                                • The warnings about the finacialisation of the global copper by Chinese developers to get around credit restrictions have been publicly available for since early 2011 when exposed by an American professor of finance.. I made some change and got out. More recently, I have watched in fascination as Chinese financialisation has spread its leprous tentacles into the iron ore and steel markets. If something looks too good, it most probably is.

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  Catch 22
                                                                                  Location
                                                                                  Oz - Asia's bunny
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  March 12, 2014, 10:39AM
                                                                                • @ Catch 22 - The financialisation of commodities is a really underplayed component of the China/ Australia story (and really, an underplayed part of the story for a range of hard and soft commodities across the world). My suspicion is that once I/O shakes out this will come into clearer view and we will all be a little surprised by just how big a part of boom it was.

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  Oh_Mighty_Zeus
                                                                                  Location
                                                                                  Mount Olympus
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  March 12, 2014, 1:56PM
                                                                              • Oh dear, another Chinese bond about to collapse. This time, it's Baoding Tianwei Baobian Electric.

                                                                                And someone blasted me last year on Markets Live and said "Gekko, you forget about China". Oh no I won't, as I'm playing Queen's song:

                                                                                Another one bites the dust.

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                Gordon Gekko
                                                                                Location
                                                                                Greg Coffey World
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                March 12, 2014, 9:37AM
                                                                                • in Prahran yet?

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  POP
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  March 12, 2014, 9:27AM
                                                                                  • @GS...."I think basically what JohnBB is trying to say "Anyone that owns property is the devil"...I don't think so GS. Anyone that owns property and uses their position to plug its' rise, or stop debate (as I described occurred on QandA), is, yes I'd consider very wrong...wow...what do you consider it?. I own a bit of property and I'm happy to scream...."we're stealing from future Australians"....You know it, I know it, we all know it. The difference is, I'm trying to do something about it DESPITE owning it. You should try having such integrity, it feels good.

                                                                                    BTW all the boofheads trying to imply I'm some busted ass so I want everything to fall so I can buy...... I'm rich; If I were to say that and it weren't true, I wouldn't feel very good about it right? I like to feel good, so I don't lie. Hard for you "uneducated optimists" to hear hey.....

                                                                                    Commenter
                                                                                    JohnBB
                                                                                    Date and time
                                                                                    March 12, 2014, 9:27AM
                                                                                    • Don't worry John.

                                                                                      In the end each new generation shows the crimes of the previous generation in terms of political, social, environmental or economic crimes.

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      Opinion Only
                                                                                      Location
                                                                                      Melbourne
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 9:45AM
                                                                                    • We're not stealing anything from future Australians. If you stop looking at inner-city properties, you'll realise there are PLENTY of properties under 350k (in Melbourne). You also don't have to move into it right away, you can rent it out first.

                                                                                      If you can't afford <350k for a house you're a whining bum (or the opposite, up-yourself snob too good for the outter suburbs).

                                                                                      People need to stop spending all their cash on pubs, holidays, cars, gadgets etc.

                                                                                      A 5% deposit on 300k is 15k and then you need to pay stamp duty. If you can't even save 30k, then stop bloody complaining how unfair life is, because you have no hope even paying the interest on the loan after.

                                                                                      MOST IMPORTANTLY: You don't deserve to "have it all" on your first property. You need to save and sacrifice like are parents and grandparents did.

                                                                                      There there, dry those tears JohnBB :P

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      GS
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 10:03AM
                                                                                    • I have never heard a rich person say Im Rich...What is rich?

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      Wwwish Lion
                                                                                      Location
                                                                                      Melbourne
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 10:33AM
                                                                                    • @GS...Every single policy for the past 30 years has been designed to rort future Australians for the benefit of the present. Every single immigrant is to add to GDP today at the expense of tomorrow. Every property sold overseas is for today's benefit and tomorrows detriment. We have completely and utterly destroyed the entire economy of Australia and it will now begin to unravel. I'm sure you can see the signs everywhere. You're in denial GS. Wages are falling, per capita GDP is falling, there's nothing left to sell, personal debt is off the scale, our lifestyles are outrageously unsustainable. There is nothing left for GenY but pauper wages, job insecurity and being locked out of housing. Wait until they all work it out, they stop bowing to the BS scam that is PC, and are political in another decade or so. I hope you have assets off shore they can't get their hands on GS.

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      JohnBB
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 10:37AM
                                                                                    • If you can't afford <350k for a house you're a whining bum (or the opposite, up-yourself snob too good for the outter suburbs).

                                                                                      Wrong and mean in equal measure.

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      Joe the POM
                                                                                      Location
                                                                                      Geelong
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 10:39AM
                                                                                    • "whining bum", your American mind set is clear. It's like saying there should be no unemployed because the jobs exist. Only an arithmetically challenged person could say that a million will go into a 100 or 200 000 in any given year. Or houses in Ardeer can be got for 340 000. Well working class western dumps like Ardeer are where the poorest live, if everyone in the east suddenly raced to buy in these dumps suburbs, where would the low income people go? In fact that is what is happening in many an industrial suburb in Melbourne's southeast. Anyway, this property Ponzi will di, the same way as in Ireland and Spain, where they had both massive immigration and foreign investment but it undermined their global competiveness. Or if it doesn't happen, they're will be growing social strife and perhaps, one day a revolution. Take your pick.

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      Catch 22
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 10:52AM
                                                                                    • If they're so cheap how come they have been losing value for 4 years?

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      Allan
                                                                                      Location
                                                                                      Prahran
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 11:08AM
                                                                                    • My goodness. I state there are currently HOUSES in Melbourne for sale (and plenty of stock) for b/w 220-350k and you still complain. Absolute no-hoper mentality.

                                                                                      Last Sat I was watching the news and they did a comparison of the highest house sold that day and the cheapest. Highest was in Malvern for $4M. The CHEAPEST was in Frankston North for 240k. It was a 3br HOUSE on 600+sqm land and is a 45min train ride to the city.

                                                                                      I personally know gen y home buyers. It's not hard if you stop spending and save your money.

                                                                                      CRY ME A RIVER!!!!

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      GS
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 11:10AM
                                                                                    • @Wwwish Lion...Great point, I like it. I have enough money to live comfortably in Australia without earning more. I can live like king in Asia. You, me, everyone on here are in the top 0.5% of the worlds wealthiest.

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      JohnBB
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 11:11AM
                                                                                    • @Wwwish Lion: spot on mate.

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      got brain
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 11:13AM
                                                                                    • due to the AUS tyranny of distance between our major cities we don't have enough regional centres and a more even spread of employment options. so we've created a pressure cooker of affordability problems in the few major cities we have whilst affordability is still achievable in the regional towns. i can't see the inner areas of the major cities getting affordable any time soon.

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      brian
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 11:18AM
                                                                                    • @ Catch 22 ... "dumps suburbs"

                                                                                      That is the attitude I'm talking about. You can live anywhere and have pride in yourself and the appearance of you home. Why is it a dump? Snob attitude. Renovate, plant garden, have some pride and hold your home-owning-head up high!

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      GS
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 11:26AM
                                                                                    • @ Allan.... I've even stated on here before that due to inflation property isn't as great as it seems.

                                                                                      My only argument here is that housing is affordable at under 350k. Anyone with a job can save a deposit and buy. Eg Frankston North example for 240k. It's a roof over your head, affordable, and train to city is 45mins or so.

                                                                                      Just stating that nobody has been robbed here. It's the "I want it all now" attitudes that need to go. The only thing robbed here is that old mentality of "saving and working your way up"

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      GS
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 11:31AM
                                                                                    • Sure for $350K you can get a place in Franskton. The median income in Frankston is @ $35K. That's 10x.

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      Allan
                                                                                      Location
                                                                                      Prahran
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 11:57AM
                                                                                    • GS,
                                                                                      there is always going to be a Toorak at one end of the socio-economic scale and a dump like Ardeer at the other.

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      Catch 22
                                                                                      Location
                                                                                      Bell Curve
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 12:03PM
                                                                                    • Median household income is closer to 60k Allan so 5.8x

                                                                                      http://www.censusdata.abs.gov.au/census_services/getproduct/census/2011/quickstat/21401

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      Wwwish Lion
                                                                                      Location
                                                                                      Melbourne
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 12:06PM
                                                                                    • Yes but I'm talking about anyone with a regular average job of say 45-55k. They can easily save a 20-30k and buy a house in Frankston North for 250k...approx 5X wages.

                                                                                      HOWEVER too many people are snobs and wouldn't be seen dead in lower socioeconomic areas. Gotta keep up appearances!!

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      GS
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 12:10PM
                                                                                    • Exactly Catch 22... and those who grew up in the middle, refusing to "lower themselves" into the lower socioeconomic areas. Gotta start somewhere.

                                                                                      I see plenty of opportunities for Gen Y to buy. I don't see the negativity some people have in housing these days. Of course it's hard to buy the closer you get into the city. If that's your goal, work your way up. You may be 30 or 40 before you can afford to buy in the actual area you want. You can also buy anywhere and just rent where you want to. I just don't see the negativity about it.

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      GS
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 12:16PM
                                                                                    • Oh, and GS, if you think Ardeer is undervalued you're welcome to try your hand at being a slum lord. Just remember that hundreds of small businesses that either supply the car industry or support the car industry will be closng soon and that the small businesses in the region that live off the wages of those automotive sector workers' are also going to be hard hit.

                                                                                      Good luck.

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      Catch 22
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 12:18PM
                                                                                    • Catch 22, the argument isn't about people who have no job and can't afford house. That is obvious.

                                                                                      I'm talking about people with jobs, acting like they'll be on the streets because they can't afford to buy in the area they grew up in.

                                                                                      Not sure why I'm even here arguing about it. There is NO argument. There are houses for sale now for 250k. Anyone with a full time job can buy one.

                                                                                      Surely we're not discussing people buying property with their Newstart allowance????? lol

                                                                                      I can't repeat myself anymore, avg wage, houses currently for sale at 250k, nothing left to say!

                                                                                      Misery loves company... enjoy!

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      GS
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 12:52PM
                                                                                    • Housing/wage multiples are based on a single wage, so almost 12x.

                                                                                      Historical average multiple on household income is @ 2.5.

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      Allan
                                                                                      Location
                                                                                      Prahran
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 12:57PM
                                                                                    • @GS...The game is loaded when the highest wage earners can't buy wherever they want. Where couples earning good money can't buy in the city. Population growth, foreign buying and BBoomers owning multiple properties is an absolute scam. It will become political soon I guarantee it. If you own in the city (which it kind of screams you do...nothing like greed and vested interest to spark the emotion) where these smart professional young want to buy, I'd be selling.

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      JohnBB
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 1:08PM
                                                                                    • @GS..You're off chops GS...Why can't they buy where they were brought up? The good earners should be able to. It's new competition from rich immigrants foreign buyers and people buying multiple properties through negative gearing. Are you arguing against that? I find it astounding how people can justify the things they want.

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      JohnBB
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 1:32PM
                                                                                    • That is rubbish JohnBB, my parents worked for years to move up to where they owned their house, and you expect to just jump in the same area?

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      Wwwish Lion
                                                                                      Location
                                                                                      Melbourne
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 3:14PM
                                                                                    • @Wwwish Lion...When I was 25 (1993), my ex and I bought a house. At the time, we could have bought at Bondi no problem. Stop exaggerating.

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      JohnBB
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      March 12, 2014, 3:22PM
                                                                                  • Someone asked yesterday about the copper price. I think you now have your answer! PS personally I dont see how yesterday's calm reaction to the new iron price landscape can continue.

                                                                                    Commenter
                                                                                    Yin or yang
                                                                                    Date and time
                                                                                    March 12, 2014, 9:25AM
                                                                                      • In early 2011 an American financial expert revealed how Chinese property developers were distorting the global copper market by its using copper as collateral tp get around credit restrictions designed to cool the Chinese property bubble. Still the polyannas didn't get it. Surprise!

                                                                                        Commenter
                                                                                        Catch 22
                                                                                        Location
                                                                                        Oz - Asia's bunny
                                                                                        Date and time
                                                                                        March 12, 2014, 10:02AM
                                                                                      • That would have been me.

                                                                                        Yeah, The iron ore slide yesterday did make me nervous about the copper price. Nearly sold my beloved TGS but held on.

                                                                                        Question is: Where to from here?

                                                                                        Commenter
                                                                                        Jimmy
                                                                                        Date and time
                                                                                        March 12, 2014, 12:13PM
                                                                                    Comments are now closed