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Markets Live: Shares close above 5000

Date

Stocks rose strongly today, taking the All Ords and ASX200 past 5000 for the first time in nearly three years. CBA’s record profit | Leighton back in black | All the earnings news

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  • i am extremely skeptical of the market rally, from about 4000 points, to 5000 points, 25% , plus a dividend of 6%
    what suddenly happened to all the global debt? replaced with more debt and endless QE. there are obviously structural problems with the global economy. the only real reason the market rallied is because of govt taking on all the bad debt in the system, and money printing, as well as a 0% interest rate globally. without that, the ASX wouldn't be worth even 1000 points.

    Commenter
    nihal bhat
    Location
    sydney
    Date and time
    February 13, 2013, 3:30PM
    • It is interesting to look down the list of State of the Union then and now statistics.

      Everything appears so peachy until the last line. Oh! the deficit has tripled! No problem I suppose.

      Commenter
      cranberry
      Date and time
      February 13, 2013, 4:04PM
    • I suspect Australian investors started understanding that other country's problems aren't as significant for us as they are for them.

      Commenter
      A Bodhi Nuisance
      Date and time
      February 13, 2013, 4:05PM
    • Don't think you would be that Skeptical if you actually had investments in the market. Maybe go back 40 months in the ASX chart and then see how you feel.

      Commenter
      Jonaze
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      February 13, 2013, 4:50PM
  • Let the banks make their profits while the sun shines, but when the housing market turns sour and they are screaming for government help it must be remembered that the profits were distributed to shareholders therefore shareholders must accept losses as they come. No bailouts as per Wall St.

    Commenter
    gasp
    Date and time
    February 13, 2013, 1:33PM
    • Of course they (banks) make a heafty profit! They charge (in account fees) just to keep your money in there so that they can use them at their will.. Hihih!

      Commenter
      The Romaniac
      Date and time
      February 13, 2013, 2:17PM
    • agreed. nothing lasts forever. where has all the debt and leverage suddenly gone? they cant print forever eh. 2008 exposed that the system is based on debt fuelled growth, i am extremely skeptical.

      Commenter
      nihal bhat
      Location
      sydney
      Date and time
      February 13, 2013, 3:31PM
    • Umm, Gasp, the housing market did turn sour. The last three years. You must have missed it. Statistically it's bound to happen again in 15-20 years time, so maybe remind us again then?

      Commenter
      Balanced
      Date and time
      February 13, 2013, 3:43PM
    • You would think that but unfortunately in times of crisis they will have a way of making you pay and convincing the politicians it was the best outcome.

      Commenter
      Opinion Only
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      February 13, 2013, 4:18PM
  • Yikes!!! What will the chicken little's feed on now!

    Commenter
    Pete
    Date and time
    February 13, 2013, 12:58PM
    • Reality check on CBA. The reason their interim dividend is "20 per cent higher than last year's first half", to quote David Ellis, is because they lifted their payout ratio from 61 to 70 per cent. In CBA's press release this morning they stated that this meant their full-year dividend will be slightly lower than last year's as a result.

      If they had maintained last year's payout ratio their dividend would have been $1.41, or 4c more than last year. Still positive, but not champagne-worthy.

      Commenter
      Mr. Eyesore
      Location
      a long way away
      Date and time
      February 13, 2013, 12:06PM
      • Why has Westpac jumped in price? It can't
        be the mediocre result CBA posted! Do we
        have what is known in bovine circles as a
        stampede? I am confused.

        Commenter
        pest from the west
        Location
        Upper Lowood
        Date and time
        February 13, 2013, 12:01PM
        • YAY! Go CBA! My overseas trip to Tuscany - first class - is paid for!

          Commenter
          rrr
          Date and time
          February 13, 2013, 11:54AM
          • We just booked our trip to Paris - only business class. Thanks CBA.

            Commenter
            Retd1
            Date and time
            February 13, 2013, 12:49PM
          • RRR...First class to Tuscany, I like it! Have plenty of fun indeed. Me soon going there also, just not first class I'm afraid.

            Commenter
            Dan
            Location
            Sydney
            Date and time
            February 13, 2013, 2:12PM
          • ure overseas trip is not paid for. this is the kind of thinking that makes the market into a bubble.

            Commenter
            nihal bhat
            Location
            sydney
            Date and time
            February 13, 2013, 3:32PM
        • Wow it just keeps going up, the dream continues!

          Commenter
          panda
          Location
          perth
          Date and time
          February 13, 2013, 11:50AM
          • 15,000 shares...loving life

            Commenter
            Shareholder
            Date and time
            February 13, 2013, 11:49AM
            • CBA on the way up, Fantastic! But I still have my money in cash with the banks. I like their 5% rate, I'm happy enough with it; others may chase bigger rewards, that's fine and good luck; I'm happy with my return and zero risk. Why chase 6% dividends with so much downrisk, I can never understand but everyone with their own risk profile, I guess. Thank you to all Banks, you get nothing out of me (no mortgage and I pay my credit cards on time, always) and you give back to me, that's how it should be and that's how it is. Keep it up!

              Commenter
              Dan
              Location
              Sydney
              Date and time
              February 13, 2013, 11:09AM
              • Each to his own Dan "You people don't even have to the inellect to understand Steve Keen" from Sydney.

                Having some money in cash is always a sound idea, but having ALL your money in cash? If you're earning 5% (for now, rates are dropping) then after tax and inflation you are barely preserving your capital. If you can't understand why people invest in shares and property then seek out someone who retired in the 1970's and has kept all their money in cash since then. Ask them how they are doing, concentrating particularly on how far the $5,000 per annum that seemed like plenty in the 1970s is stretching today.

                Maybe term finished before Steve Keen could get around to that topic?

                Commenter
                Balanced
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 11:25AM
              • If you have cash earning 5%, why do you need a credit card?

                Commenter
                Gordon Gekko
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 11:31AM
              • Dan, Do I detect some Scottish blood in you?

                Commenter
                Jonaze
                Location
                Sydney
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 11:33AM
              • I'd agree with you to a certain extent Dan. But the writing has been on the wall in cash mgt rates since at least Sep 2012. If you're looking to generate funds for retirement the difference between 5% and 5 to 6% + franking credit is quite a lot. None of these ASX top 10 companies are going to go broke. Yes there is some downside risk.

                Commenter
                MelbMan
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 11:37AM
              • perhaps the difference in tax treatment plays a role in investor behaviour

                Commenter
                A Bodhi Nuisance
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 11:46AM
              • @Jonaze said "Dan, Do I detect some Scottish blood in you?"

                Nope, he's Irish! BTW, there's never been an Irish Pope, and I wonder why?

                Commenter
                Gordon Gekko
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 11:56AM
              • Nothing wrong with your strategy Dan as it seems to meet your risk profile. For me, the upbeat release suggests a 20% increase in the final div too, which means a total of $3.89 FF, so a $70 price equals an 8.3% return over 8 months during a time when the economy is improving. Sure there's more risk, but the talk is a 75bp drop in rates so your deposit may soon be closer to 4%.

                Commenter
                Life Is Good
                Location
                The Real World
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 12:14PM
              • Balanced...I didn't say "you people don't understand S Keen", I said to the ONE person who put him down earlier that I doubt his/her capacity to understand him, don't put words in my mouth, please; that doesn't happen to be you by any chance? Unless one is a professor in economics, one cannot put S Keen or others down. One may disagree with his economic model or may have a different opinion (we still the right to opinion, right?), but one cannot personally attack a professor unless one has a similar position and academic standing. Do you? Going by your latest comments & personal attacks, I really doubt it, I'm afraid.

                Commenter
                Dan
                Location
                Sydney
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 12:16PM
              • Scottish, Irish, I'm afraid not. Although I don't get the "Scottish blood", are they supposed to be rather frugal with their money or other? Not sure of the meaning; Anyhow, I know I am a bit prudent these days, perhaps a touch too much. Whereas for Irish, I just love their food, music and beer! :)

                Commenter
                Dan
                Location
                Sydney
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 12:37PM
              • gr8 attitude dan. i am inthe same boat as you. no need to chase at these levels. none of the GFC issues have been resolved. money printing is questionable.

                Commenter
                nihal bhat
                Location
                sydney
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 3:33PM
              • Dan, it's ridiculous to say that one can't criticise Steve Keen unless one is an economics professor. Given that no two people in the world have exactly the same credentials, then you are saying at the extreme that no-one can ever criticise anyone else? I have my own academic and commercial credentials and I am entitled and prepared to expose nonsense when I see it, particularly when Keen's is rammed down people's throats on these forums on a regular basis.

                Commenter
                Balanced
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 3:55PM
              • Balanced...with all respect, of course one may criticise or have another opinion, I've never said that (please read my comments); personal attacks...no no.

                Commenter
                Dan
                Location
                Sydney
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 4:40PM
            • "The Australian economy is in bad shape" ..... according to the Tony "No Show" Abbott team.

              Commenter
              J. Fraser
              Location
              Queensland
              Date and time
              February 13, 2013, 11:07AM
              • J Frazer, presumably you are one of those who thinks money grows on credit cards. Where's intelligent people know that only money that shows on your debit card as being your own is actually yours. Anything else needs to be paid back at a price. Let me know if I need to dumb this down for you

                Commenter
                trying
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 11:38AM
              • The market is a poor basis for judging the wider economy... any experienced investor knows this

                Commenter
                A Bodhi Nuisance
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 11:47AM
              • trying.
                don't even know what that means? you are obviously alluding to some point no one else is privy to.

                Commenter
                J.
                Location
                Syd.
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 11:55AM
              • "Where's intelligent people...." LOL! Thanks for the laugh, trying.

                Commenter
                Life Is Good
                Location
                The Real World
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 12:06PM
              • J Frazer and Life is good,

                like I said happy to dumb things down.

                When Labor came in we had money in the bank, now we owe billions. And have nothing to show for it

                Oh dear a spelling mistake on a blog, who would've thought!!!

                Commenter
                trying
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 12:29PM
              • Keep "trying".

                I am laughing all the way to the bank.

                Commenter
                J. Fraser
                Location
                Queensland
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 1:09PM
              • J Frazer, now that we've established what type of person votes labor, we can all get back to work, ta!

                Commenter
                trying
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 1:57PM
              • Trying, are you sure you haven't ended up here by mistake while looking for the Andrew Bolt website? You should head there - there's lots of people just like you. Nobody there understands or would care that running an economy during the GFC is a bit different to running it on autopilot. you'll do well there.

                Commenter
                Balanced
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 4:12PM
              • balanced, by the looks of it you ended up here by mistake as well, you obviously have no idea either. Fact ,Labor found a sound economy and a surplus, but don't worry Tony Abbott will restore sanity soon enough

                Commenter
                trying
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 4:47PM
            • A hearty congratulations to the ASX 200 for getting to 5000 points. What a marvellous institution.

              Commenter
              Jonaze
              Location
              Sydney
              Date and time
              February 13, 2013, 10:54AM
              • 10:32am: A voice of reason on a morning filled with good vibes - or as stockmarket types call it, positive sentiment:"
                Also known as "hype", "salting the gold field" and "wishful fullfilment". Its good but BenLe Brun's point is valid the earnings are definately not across the board.

                Commenter
                Another Gump
                Location
                Vic
                Date and time
                February 13, 2013, 10:42AM
                • WorleyParsons: "The engineering company declared an interim fully franked dividend of 14.5 cents per share."

                  You scared me there for a minute... it's actually 41.5 cents!!

                  Commenter
                  ashaman
                  Location
                  Prahran
                  Date and time
                  February 13, 2013, 10:31AM
                  • In an already, seemingly, overpriced bank sector, someone has already paid $67.38 for CBA. Am I the only one having trouble with the amount of spare money in some peoples hands. I never said the markets made sense, and in fact i know they dont but this is crazy. If its just chasing dividend, to what end, the price will fall upon going exdiv and no surity it will not fall further.

                    Commenter
                    Another Gump
                    Location
                    Vic
                    Date and time
                    February 13, 2013, 10:28AM
                      • Hi Grump... I see it more as cash sitting on the sidelines now coming back into the blue chip stocks...

                        Commenter
                        A Bodhi Nuisance
                        Date and time
                        February 13, 2013, 10:36AM
                      • If a company makes record profits and pays record dividends, why doesn't that company have a right to trade at a record price?

                        I would suggest that is entirely rational.

                        Commenter
                        Luke16
                        Date and time
                        February 13, 2013, 12:19PM
                      • Too rational, Luke. Haven't you heard the sky is falling? Apparently.

                        Commenter
                        Balanced
                        Date and time
                        February 13, 2013, 1:10PM
                    • Added to CBA shorts $67.25. Defacto short on housing.

                      Commenter
                      Allan
                      Location
                      Prahran
                      Date and time
                      February 13, 2013, 10:19AM
                      • Gee it's lucky for you that all these shorts are only in fantasy land, Allan, because in real life you'd be broke already from all the wrong calls you've made shorting CBA at lower prices. Not that I consciously try to remember or anything, but this is at least the fifth time I recall you saying "added to CBA shorts" at a higher price. But keep going, keep "adding to shorts" every time the price goes up, and one day by definition you'll be able to come on and boast you're a genius.

                        Meanwhile in the real world, the massive plagues from the heavens you've been calling about people having massive trouble meeting their massive mortgages? Not sure the message actually got through to anyone. The only thing massive is the profit CBA made - yet again - from borrowers comfortably meeting their payments. You may have missed it, because you didn't comment, but stats last week showed that the level of problem mortgages is falling, from an already low level to an inconsequential one.

                        Massive Massive Massive.

                        Commenter
                        Balanced
                        Date and time
                        February 13, 2013, 11:08AM
                      • Balanced

                        Have you looked at the surveys of households who are living pay cheque to pay cheque and over leveraged?

                        Weaker conditions are on their way with reduced government and mining expenditure which will flow through.

                        Commenter
                        Opinion Only
                        Location
                        Melbourne
                        Date and time
                        February 13, 2013, 11:32AM
                      • Hi Balanced... I've always assumed Allan takes rather small bets and invests in a large number of stocks so individual bad calls don't affect him greatly - he just patiently waits them out...

                        At times I'm almost in envy of the discipline he shows as no matter how many times he makes silly calls on bad logic he usually ends up ahead by taking advantage of short term share price volatility...

                        Good for him...

                        Nice to see CBA is in exemplary shape though...

                        Commenter
                        A Bodhi Nuisance
                        Date and time
                        February 13, 2013, 12:21PM
                      • Opinion Only - has it not been the case for many years that some people live pay day to pay day and are over leveraged?

                        Commenter
                        Retd1
                        Date and time
                        February 13, 2013, 1:00PM
                      • @ A Bodhi Nuisance - it's courteous of you to stick up for a fellow poster, but what on earth strikes you as disciplined about Allan? He is simply an irritating one trick pony that claims that everything is bad and getting worse. Last year for eg, the all ords at 4300 was heading to 3500 (wrong). Iron when it fell to $80 was heading to $20 long term av. Wrong. Bluescope was headed for bankruptcy. Wrong. Only gullible fools had taken up Seven West rights at $1.30. Wrong. There's nothing disciplined about claiming it's going to rain every day and being right occasionally. That's the very opposite of discipline.

                        Commenter
                        Balanced
                        Date and time
                        February 13, 2013, 1:27PM
                      • Balanced... he's not accurate most of the time in his predictions yet he seems to take small profits in his trades whenever the short term opportunity presents itself...

                        My sense of timing can at times be described as sh!t h##se so I admire when others have developed the discipline to know when to walk away...

                        (big fan of 'The Gambler' song btw...)

                        Please don't construe that as showing any respect for some of the out-there views he tries to spruik on this comments section... he and I tend to be like chalk and cheese in most of our predictions...

                        Btw I also enjoyed his many posts on the imminent demise of BSL and the iron ore price... it's really up to you how seriously you take his views...

                        Everyone has their good and bad points and good and bad days... best to have a drink at the end of the day and leave the past in the past...

                        Commenter
                        A Bodhi Nuisance
                        Date and time
                        February 13, 2013, 2:01PM
                      • Retd1

                        If you agree with Balanced on low mortgage defaults continuing then you presumably think LNP won't be in government later this year with the same fiscal restraint to match the states. With less mining in flows I think the mortgage problems will grow.

                        Enjoy it while it lasts as those unemployment stats look good on the surface but there is a real story beneath it and it doesn't look good beyond the next 6 months.

                        Commenter
                        Opinion Only
                        Location
                        Melbourne
                        Date and time
                        February 13, 2013, 2:52PM
                      • Enjoy paying that dividend...

                        Commenter
                        tpcam
                        Date and time
                        February 13, 2013, 3:11PM
                    • uptime

                      bulls

                      ding dongs

                      10:10

                      correction

                      stimulus

                      That should cover it.

                      Commenter
                      cranberry
                      Date and time
                      February 13, 2013, 10:06AM
                      • LOL! No doubt he'll claim he was 'right' when CBA drops $1.64 on ex date!!

                        Commenter
                        Life Is Good
                        Location
                        The Real World
                        Date and time
                        February 13, 2013, 12:01PM
                      • Exactly right, Life is Good. I think everyone should brace for that.

                        Commenter
                        Balanced
                        Date and time
                        February 13, 2013, 1:28PM
                      • I'm bracing myself for 200 more posts from you with the theme "Allan".

                        He's really got your goat hasn't he? hehe Your obsession is on par with dear departed Optimist.

                        Commenter
                        cranberry
                        Date and time
                        February 13, 2013, 1:49PM
                      • Cranberry, given that Allan posts as much as the rest of the posters put together, all day every day, and sprouts errant nonsense, it is hard not to engage to some extent. But you don't need to worry about me having an unhealthy obsession - I have some challenging tasks in my life, and I need light relief from time to time, and matching wits with Allan and other doomsayers is as light as it comes.

                        Commenter
                        Balanced
                        Date and time
                        February 13, 2013, 3:40PM

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