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Election wrap: August 21, 2013

Date

Stephanie Peatling and Jacqueline Maley

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  • How will Kev go in the debate tonight given he'll be outside his comfort zone of schoolkids and party faithful ?

    Will anybody ask him to describe the Labor track record over the last six years (outside GFC response) ?

    Commenter
    Hacka
    Location
    Canberra
    Date and time
    August 21, 2013, 9:21AM
    • Who knows.

      Perhaps someone will ask Abbott if his cuts will be the same as Mal Brough under spending his Budget as Minister for Indigenous Affairs in 2006 - 2007 by ......... wait for it ......... $600 million.

      That was 20% of the total Indigenous Affairs Budget.

      Commenter
      J. Fraser
      Location
      Queensland
      Date and time
      August 21, 2013, 9:51AM
    • I'm sure Kevin is big enough to handle it, with or without notes.
      Tony is probably refashioning his cilice as we write.
      Either way I won't be watching, that in itself is self flagellation.

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Date and time
      August 21, 2013, 11:13AM
    • J.Frazer and Country Gal - you are either in the Public Service or simply dont work. Your constan tleft wing views and put downs of Tony Abbott who is a thoroughly decent man shows just what bitter hate filled people you are.

      Commenter
      The Real Johno
      Location
      Mulgrave
      Date and time
      August 21, 2013, 12:33PM
    • Juno, there is nothing decent about a man who opposed the Malaysian solution on 'humanitarian' grounds, while supporting the very cruel Nauru and Manus Island solutions.

      And there is nothing decent about a man who hides from the Australian voting public how he proposes to pay for his huge election promises.

      Commenter
      Whyalla Wipeout
      Date and time
      August 21, 2013, 1:09PM
    • Jonno
      If you are so concerned abut "taking people down" you should withdraw your comment about Country Gal and J. Frazer.

      I have been reading their posts for months now and neither of them have come across to me as "bitter hate filled people".

      They may make a few humorous or tongue in cheek comments occasionally, but that is the limit of their deviation from normality.

      I do detect a touch of social conscience occasionally ... do you know what that is, Jonno?

      Commenter
      TiredOfSpin
      Date and time
      August 21, 2013, 1:12PM
    • @"The real Johno"

      Now that you have given your "opinion" about myself and ACG could you "please explain" what you have against the public service.

      Wouldn't they employ you ?

      Commenter
      J. Fraser
      Location
      Queensland
      Date and time
      August 21, 2013, 1:35PM
    • Dear Whyalla Wipeout – TA probably has some no doubt misguided intention of helping Australian’s in need first and foremost before economic refugees. TiredOfSpin…hmmm…let me think – do I know what social conscience is ?? Well I pay a hell of a lot of taxes that I have watched Kevin, then Julia and now Kevin again waste on things like Pink Batts, Peoples forums, Grocery watch etc etc…is that the same thing ? And finally Dear Mr J.Frazier….hmmm…got it in one champ – no Public Service for me – they wouldn’t employ me in a fit - my work ethic is too high.

      Commenter
      The Real Johno
      Location
      Mulgrave
      Date and time
      August 21, 2013, 2:33PM
    • Hacka, don't worry so much about the questions that will be asked; will any be answered? Your guy is not known for it.

      Commenter
      jofek
      Date and time
      August 21, 2013, 2:47PM
    • Funny one jofek. Do we expect either leader to mention that name which nobody dares speak .... "Gillard" ?

      Commenter
      Hacka
      Location
      Canberra
      Date and time
      August 21, 2013, 3:23PM
    • Real Jonno, the question of putting Australian 'ahead of economic refugees' is one you can put to the greens, who have a consistent, if misconceived attitude to the question of asylum seekers.

      My objection to Abbott, and it goes to the very heart of his lack of decency, is that his opposition to the Malaysian proposal was purely and simply for electoral advantage. He supported Nauru and Manus as destinations, which is inherently crueler than Malaysia, yet opposed Malaysia on 'humanitarian grounds".

      There is no area in Australian politics today where there are more lies and misrepresentation - on all sides - than the vexed question of what to do with asylum seekers risking their lives to get here by boat.

      Most people in this debate take illogical positions but at least believe them. You probably believe the guff about them all being economic migrants (as sounded of by Bob Carr), but Abbott plumbed the depths of indecent political opportunism by opposing Malaysia on humanitarian grounds.

      Commenter
      Whyalla Wipeout
      Date and time
      August 21, 2013, 3:25PM
    • TA should do well - he's in his comfort zone of OAPs and or course, Bronwyn: "Nice to be among your people again, Bronwyn".

      Commenter
      Grizwald
      Location
      Alexandria
      Date and time
      August 21, 2013, 3:30PM
    • Hacka, I wouldn't be at all surprised if your guy mentions Gillard as often as he can find an excuse to; wouldn't it be nice though if he spoke a little bit about policy and vision?

      Commenter
      jofek
      Date and time
      August 21, 2013, 4:39PM
    • J Fraser of Queensland
      That would be the same public service (using thtrem loosely) who Beattie and Bligh increased by 40% over their tie in government. The fact that they created more administration positions than front line says something about what the recent LNP state governent had to deal with when they got in. Add to that the contracts put in pace over their last days in government designed to either ensure jobs for their mates or fiscally handcuff the new government rudd and Gillard are busy doing the same on a Federal level with promisesand off budget expenditure promises.
      So we can ask again, are you a member of this PS group?

      Commenter
      ruddy hell
      Date and time
      August 21, 2013, 9:13PM
  • Interesting that the party that is preaching "a budget crisis" and the need to tackle debt has, accoring to the herald sun yesterday, currently announce $30b in spending for the election campaign.
    Those reckless spenders in the ALP have promised $3b.

    But don't worry the libs spending is all fully costed and they tony outline $17b in savings in his budget reply!

    Commenter
    Macca75
    Date and time
    August 21, 2013, 9:24AM
      • Yeah Macca, because everything Rudd promises is "outside the forward estimates", which is code for "will not happen".
        What is the true cost of the NBN?
        What is Rudd's cost for the NT solution?
        What is Rudd's cost for Gonski, after the 1st 4 years?
        What is Rudd's cost for the PNG solution?
        Try find these figures Macca, if you are truly concerned about campaign promises.

        Commenter
        beasleyst
        Location
        Sydney
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 9:57AM
      • Beasleyest - Do the costs of Abbott's promises magically stop after forward estimates?
        Is Abbott not going to fund "gonski" after forward estimates removing ripping money out of schools?
        Why do you think the NBN should be included in the budget as it is buying an asset?

        Commenter
        Macca75
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 10:04AM
      • Do try to answer my questions first Macca. Don't answer questions with questions.

        Commenter
        beasleyst
        Location
        Sydney
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 10:12AM
      • Sorry do you find answering questions with questions is trying to doge your qurestion? Is it like when someone asks about Abbott's lack of costings and budget blackholes and you point to Labor's post forward estimates spend or the cost of the NBN? Is you name actually Mr Pot!!

        Commenter
        Macca75
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 10:25AM
      • Well Macca,

        I've read your post again, and still can't find a "question" in it. It was more of a rant than anything.
        Hence I asked a Question.
        Over to you kettle.

        Commenter
        beasleyst
        Location
        Sydney
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 10:36AM
      • Beaslyest - My post is a statement which you have failed to refute - hence I can only conclude my statement is accurate.
        You asked a question in the attempt top distract from fact that Abbott is out spending the ALP and is well short on his savings - whatever the answer to your questions are it doesn't change that fact.
        You liberals seem to think that the Alp is terrible at managing the economy but when Abbott is challenged on his economci policy you try to say but he is just doing what the ALP are doing - if you are right doesn't that just mean that either the ALP are good or Abbott is just as terrible - either way why change govt just to get the same result?

        Commenter
        Macca75
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 10:49AM
      • Still no answers?

        Or is it just that you couldn't find the answers?

        Commenter
        beasleyst
        Location
        Sydney
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 10:57AM
      • You want answers it is on the public record so try google - how much will the NBN cost - look at the announced policy, how much will the ALP spend on Gonski beyond the forward estimates, look at the announced policy - now if you could point me to the announcement where the coalition say how they will pay for their $30b in spending I will be much obliged!

        And you still haven't refuted my statement - is it because you can't?

        Commenter
        Macca75
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 11:03AM
      • Macca, you are wasting your energy.

        beasleyst and the other Abbott shills have been told to stonewall like hell when asked where the money is coming from.

        It's because they know that Abbott plans to copy Howard and crush services and serious infrastructure investment.

        Commenter
        Whyalla Wipeout
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 11:11AM
      • Why would Abbott be stupid enough to release all his policies at once? Rudd will only steal them. As for costings they have committed to releasing them early in the final week of the campaign once all policies have been announced. That will be a huge improvement on Rudd/Gillard who did it the day before the election. And we all remember how good the election & budget promises of Rudd/Gillard were don't we? Over promise and under deliver - it is in Labor's DNA.

        Commenter
        Airato
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 11:58AM
      • Airato, perhaps I can rephrase your question:

        'Why would Abbott be stupid enough to tell the Australian public where he is going to cut savagely?"

        Especially when a supine press so fails to press on this critical issue.

        Commenter
        Whyalla Wipeout
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 12:12PM
      • .........I forgot to add that Labor lies, lies, lies.

        Commenter
        airato
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 12:52PM
      • Gee airato, classic Liberal shill. Ask why the Liberals are lying and deceiving the public and you fall back on the mindless mantra of labor bad, labor bad, labor bad, blah, blah, blah.

        Commenter
        Whyalla Wipeout
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 1:17PM
    • National Centre for Social and Economic Modelling (NATSEM), shows a woman with one child and a new baby earning $65,000 would in fact be better off compared with Labor's scheme by somewhere between $10,604 and $14,895 (depending on her partner's income) once reduced family tax benefit payments and income tax was taken into account.

      Commenter
      Macca75
      Date and time
      August 21, 2013, 9:27AM
      • I wish my new baby was earning $65,000

        Commenter
        dcs
        Location
        Brisbane
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 9:40AM
      • Aren't you one of the ones saying that Australia was broke, Australia can't afford anything.

        Not so long ago.

        Commenter
        J. Fraser
        Location
        Queensland
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 9:45AM
      • J Fraser - I posted this to show that while the libs claim they are paying the average income earner $32k in PPL she is actually only (about $23k more than the ALP) she is actually only getting about 1/2 that benefit.

        Considering the price tag for this policy and it's clear weighting towards higher income earners it is ridiculous.

        Commenter
        Macca75
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 10:01AM
    • High income women would also lose a chunk of their generous gains under the Coalition PPL scheme in tax - a woman earning more than $100,000 whose partner earned more than $150,000 is $52,000 better off before tax under the Coalition plan, but $26,791 after tax.

      Commenter
      Macca75
      Date and time
      August 21, 2013, 9:28AM
      • Rudd is on his way to 'owning' an historical loss for Labor.

        He if had a lick of sense and a little less ego he would have left that honour to Julia Gillard.

        Commenter
        SteveH.
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 9:31AM
        • I agree. I just cannot understand why he didn't let her take the flogging then step in as leader of opp'n post election.
          Surely he didn't really think he could win it?

          In any event, the ALP needs to cop a big loss in this election. It needs new blood and not from the Union admin ranks.

          Commenter
          Puzzled
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 9:38AM
        • J Gillard never lost an election.

          Commenter
          Cwitty
          Location
          Sydney
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 9:39AM
        • SteveH. The very essence of the narcissistic disorder is delusion. Rudd just doesn't believe it is possible he will loose.

          Putting it another way, no he has no sense.

          Commenter
          Lewis
          Location
          Sydney
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 9:47AM
        • Puzzled,

          Because there is no way in hell the ALP would let him near the leadership in opposition. They hate the guy. He is only there for "campaigning" purposes, to save some seats. Unfortunately for the ALP, he is failing there too.

          Commenter
          beasleyst
          Location
          Sydney
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 9:53AM
        • Bruce Hawker coupled with Rudd's ego have put Labor in the position they are now in - gone!

          Commenter
          Tim of Altona
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 9:57AM
        • If he didn't spend the last 3 years destroying Gillard and the ALP they may have had a chance! He destroyed Gillard in in the process destroyed the Labor brand! Well done Kev. He should have just disappeared 3 years ago, But hhis ego wouldn't allow that of course.

          Commenter
          Aaron
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 10:00AM
        • Cwitty, actually Kevin's never lost one either, thats what a first time is all about.

          Commenter
          SteveH.
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 10:04AM
        • Aaron,

          You can't give Kevin Rudd full credit for destroying the Labor brand.
          There were some other notable figures such as Obeid, Thomson, Williamson, MacDonald, Gillard etc.

          Commenter
          beasleyst
          Location
          Sydney
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 10:14AM
      • Looking forward to another day of excuses for why it's perfectly OK for the Coalition to refuse to tell Australia how they propose to handle over $50 billion of spending cuts and/or tax increases and still claim to have a more credible economic plan.

        Excuses will include:
        1. The Liberals are just automatically magically better at economic management.

        2. When the Coalition lied about their 2010 "audited" costings it totally didn't mean they aren't trustworthy on this stuff.

        3. Labor didn't provide formal costings until the day before the 2007 election; and

        4. Rudd drools Abbott rules.

        Is it too much even for rusted-on conservatives to accept that this kind of behaviour is terrible no matter who you support?

        Commenter
        Arky
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 9:37AM
        • Morning Arky. Another restless night was it?

          Commenter
          isenz
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 9:49AM
        • As long as they release their costing early on the last week of the election campaign then I think that would be acceptable. I guess we'll just have to wait & see.

          Commenter
          Lewis
          Location
          Sydney
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 9:55AM
        • where can we buy our "Rudd drools Abbott rules" T Shirts?

          Commenter
          Cwitty
          Location
          Sydney
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 9:56AM
        • "where can we buy our "Rudd drools Abbott rules" T Shirts?
          Commenter
          Cwitty
          Location
          Sydney
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 9:56AM

          At any of your lower class bogan outlets.

          Check with an adult for directions on where your arms go.

          Commenter
          J. Fraser
          Location
          Queensland
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 10:21AM
        • People are starting vote we need the costings now.

          Commenter
          amro
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 3:27PM
      • So far it's looking like we'll just dodge getting a nasty narcissistic megalomaniac for a PM again but also miss out on the treasurer who actually understands economics.

        Commenter
        Lewis
        Location
        Sydney
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 9:41AM
        • So what we need is a blended "national emergency" government of Lib/Lab with Nats and Greens the opposition. ;-)

          Commenter
          Norm
          Location
          Maroubra
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 9:54AM
      • The Pulse "9:28am: How are you feeling about the campaign this far? Who do you think will win? Have your say in our readers' poll which you can find here."

        I think Labor will win because Australians know that in their guts they know Abbott is nuts.

        And once again I thank Fairfax Media for letting voters have their say.

        Sometimes uncensored.

        Commenter
        J. Fraser
        Location
        Queensland
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 9:44AM
        • The betting agencies, therefore the punters with skin in the ,certainly know who's going to win -

          Coalition - $1.08
          ALP - $8.00

          Pretty much the same as today's Age poll so far.

          How's your Gillard by a 10 seat majority looking?

          Commenter
          Tim of Altona
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 10:07AM
        • @"Tim of Altona"

          This is a community announcement :

          Stay away from the betting agencies.

          Catch up with the news ..... Rudd is currently Prime Minister of Australia.

          Labor will win the 2013 election with a 13 seat majority.

          The above news was relayed via Fairfax Media at least 4 weeks ago.

          Commenter
          J. Fraser
          Location
          Queensland
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 10:33AM
        • Is it too late for J Fraser to put money on Julia Gillard winning by a majority of 10 seats?

          Commenter
          Rodrigo
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 10:36AM
        • @Rodrigo

          Great to see your economic input.

          Up to its usual standard.

          No doubt your refugee policy will follow.

          Commenter
          J. Fraser
          Location
          Queensland
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 10:43AM
        • Just trying to figure out if it's too late for you to put your money where your mouth was, mate. Only looking for you, JF.

          Commenter
          Rodrigo
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 2:49PM
      • Rudd likes likes his AFL analogies to describe his campaign - I can see it now - come Sept 05 he'll be saying there is still 10 minutes of the game to go and Labor only need to score a quick 12 unanswered goals and they will win the election.

        Commenter
        Tim of Altona
        Date and time
        August 21, 2013, 9:55AM
        • Another tragedy at sea with lives lost - and we are told by Tony Burke that the PNG solution is working - however with 3,000 arrivals so far since the policy announcement was made, how can anyone believe this statement - what was the outcome of the forum held in Indonesia yesterday? Gotta zip >>>

          Commenter
          Baltic13
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 10:03AM
          • A non binding regional asylum seeker agreement that is not worth the paper it is written on. Yet another politician junket that achieved absolutely nothing.

            Commenter
            Pawel
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:11AM
          • Glad you agree with Australia doubling the migrant/refugee intake.

            Phone up your local M.P.

            Commenter
            J. Fraser
            Location
            Queensland
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:23AM
          • And Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison smile sweetly as they deplore more deaths that could have been avoided if they gave the Malaysian solution a chance. But then, if it had worked the Libs would have lost a very big stick to beat the Government with. And we can't have that, can we. Not if the Libs are to get government.

            Commenter
            Whyalla Wipeout
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:26AM
          • The Malaysia Solution was never a chance. It was capped at 800 - now, 2000 have made the crossing since Rudd announced his PNG Solution. The people smugglers can swamp that 800 limit in a day.

            Commenter
            Rodrigo
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:35AM
          • World class fishing and diving in Manus, not to mention a great climate, and no persecution to boot.... Send them all there!

            Commenter
            Enrico
            Location
            Sydney
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:05AM
          • Rodrigo, it could have worked before the people smugglers got their business model going sweetly. However, the fact is that the Liberals did not support it because THEY thought it could work. I've not seen a single Liberal run the 'humanitarian' line that they pretended at the time.

            Commenter
            Whyalla Wipeout
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:50AM
          • Whyalla Wipeout - how can you say the Liberals did not support it if Labor never brought the legislation before the House to be voted on.

            Commenter
            Pawel
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:05AM
          • Pawel, I can say that because Liberal after Liberal got up in the House of Representatives and stated that they would oppose the legislation.

            How can you forget Joe Hockey's tear-stained declaration about never, ever supporting a law that could send a 13 year old girl unaccompanied to Malaysia. It's a shame he did not have similar emotions about supporting a law that could avoid a six-month old baby lying in a morgue in Indonesia.

            Are you saying that the Liberals would have voted for the legislation after stating in Parliament that they would not?

            Or is this just another of the dishonest sleights of hand that the Liberal supporters love so much. Smug - oh they did not vote for it, so they did not oppose it.

            Commenter
            Whyalla Wipeout
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:18AM
        • Well, LNP boasting for pass three years know all about economy and their costings are ready. So show us now. Why wait.
          Doesn't matter what ALP do or done .
          Show us your ware, ecominic emergency
          Right , so why are you making promises.
          Are you any better?

          Commenter
          Old Mary
          Location
          Westies
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 10:08AM
          • It's not the costings that bother me, but where the money is coming from. The Liberals promise either GREAT BIG CUTS or GREAT BIG DEFICIT. They are trying to pretend that they can make up all the expenses by sacking a bunch of lazy public servants. Fat chance!

            Commenter
            Whyalla Wipeout
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:31AM
        • I want one of the channels to use a "cut-o-meter" tonight. I'm tipping Rudd will say "cut" more than 300 times.
          I'll also be listening out for my other favourite: "You know what"...

          Commenter
          dRod
          Location
          Sydney
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 10:11AM
          • Considering Abbott has promised $27b more in spending than Rudd so far this campaign Rudd has a point - something has to be cut!

            Commenter
            Macca75
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:13AM
          • I'm also listening for "I'm a Kokoda survivor" and "I've been outside the wire"

            Commenter
            Tim of Altona
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:17AM
          • It's 'Frankly' that gets my goat.

            I'd like to ditch the Worm and have a Word-Over-Usage Meter instead.

            Commenter
            yys
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:24AM
          • It certainly won't be more boring than Tony Abbott "and err let's be clear about this" and of course constantly saying most things twice, because he believes he has ram home a point. Just be hopeful for a good presentation of policies and their costings instead of your negative slant.

            Commenter
            Maus49
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:26AM
          • Macca
            How about waste?

            Commenter
            dcs
            Location
            Brisbane
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:27AM
          • drod, considering that the money has to be found from somewhere - and Tony just invokes the magic pudding every time he is asked, perhaps you could tell us where the money is coming from?

            Because if there are not GREAT BIG CUTS coming to pay for the Liberal promises, we are just going to triple the deficit and the debt under the Liberals.

            Commenter
            Whyalla Wipeout
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:28AM
          • dcs - "Waste" is such a wonderful term, it covers everything - "Where will you find the money to pay for your billions in spending?" "We will cut the waste!" but what is that waste, govt's aren't just pooring money down a drain, the waste is in spending programs or employing public servants or providing services - cutting waste impacts something or someone - until we know what that "waste" is how do we know if indeed it is waste and how it will impact our society and economy?

            Commenter
            Macca75
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:44AM
          • Hockey sees waste everywhere - he's a latter day "Queen of Hearts", decapitating every service in sight because they're all so wasteful. Simplistic nonsense, and Federal Public Sector workers should be very afraid.

            Commenter
            BC
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:06AM
          • If only they would cut the lies, then voters could actually believe them, without voters indulging the fantasy of pretending to believe what they say is true. Voters have become so good at pretending they don't realise that they are living in a world of pretense. It's reached the stage that polling stations should be called baa stations.

            Commenter
            Pen of hrba
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:09AM
          • "I make no apology"

            Commenter
            Enrico
            Location
            Sydney
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:16AM
          • Has Kev given up on describing Abbott as "unfit for office" in every interview as he did last week ?

            Will he try it again tonight ?

            Commenter
            Hacka
            Location
            Canberra
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:16AM
          • Rudd could possibly say "cut" 300 times.

            For certain the only thing Abbott is likely to say is arrrrrgh or he might extend himself and add an urrrrgh.

            Commenter
            J. Fraser
            Location
            Queensland
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:18AM
          • Macca
            This government has been puring money down the drain, and while that has a tricle on effect to help the economy it is not an efficient use of resources. The LNP even published a booklet on individual wastes of money by this government. Feel free to debate any of the points within it after you read it.

            Commenter
            dcs
            Location
            Brisbane
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:20AM
          • dcs - I was speaking literally about the drain, not figuratively and that booklet is not exactly accurate.
            On top of that a lot of the "waste" the libs point to is non-recurring.
            When you actually no what you are talikgn about and not just regurgitating liberal party talking points then we may have a debate.

            Commenter
            Macca75
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:28AM
          • "Has Kev given up on describing Abbott as "unfit for office""

            Hacka, I suppose if it is not self-evident now it never will be. Abbott became unfit for office the day he announced to Parliament that he would never support the Malaysian people swap on humanitarian grounds, but was happy to use every subsequent death at sea of an asylum seeker to beat the government with.

            Abbott and Morrison could barely hide the smirks on their faces as they wheeled out their tallies in staged presentations to the press.

            Commenter
            Whyalla Wipeout
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:31AM
          • you forget the "you know something?"

            Commenter
            Now you see him
            Location
            Soon you won't
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:51AM
          • A bunch of us are playing drinking games as part of tonight's forum. Every time Ruddy Boy says "cut" or flicks his hair we have to take a drink.

            Gee I hope we have enough alcohol!!

            Commenter
            Smokin Mo
            Location
            Ryde
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 12:25PM
          • Smokin Mo,

            You'd better book the hospital now for a stomach pump at about 6:45pm tonight!

            Commenter
            dRod
            Location
            Sydney
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 12:54PM
          • smokin jo, your apparent grasp of reality is such that you can save on the alcohol and drink water. Same effect.

            Commenter
            Whyalla Wipeout
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 1:02PM
          • So Macca, it's just propaganda? As I said, happy to debate specific pieces of the document that you have issue with, rather than your blanket dismissal. And finding new ways every year of new non-recurring budget blowing expenditure is a recurring pattern of expenditure.
            How about you stop rolling out the party line of blanket denials and debate the specifics outlined in the document?

            Commenter
            dcs
            Location
            Brisbane
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 3:16PM
          • Hey macca, don't bother with dcs's challenge. If you do come up with a question that they don't want to answer, like what will Abbott cut to pay for his middle and upper class welfare, they either don't answer or say something irrelevant about Labor.

            I've never known a Liberal to give a straight answer to any question other than a dorothy dixer. And even dcs's challenge is a classic Liberal sleight of hand to avoid engaging on the reality.

            Commenter
            Whyalla Wipeout
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 3:44PM
        • I wonder if anyone at tonight's debate will ask Abbott about his candidate for Fisher, the former Indigenous Affairs Minister Mal Brough, and why he took $100,000 from the Aboriginal Benefits Fund to give to the Woodford Folk festival.

          Should be a cinch for Abbott to answer that one.

          Seeing as how he has such an interest in Aboriginal affairs.

          Commenter
          J. Fraser
          Location
          Queensland
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 10:16AM
          • Can't see there would be any interest in that one.

            How's Gillard by 10 seats going for you?

            Commenter
            Tim of Altona
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:37AM
          • @"Tim of Altona"

            Catch up.

            Or go one better and get ahead.

            With a policy perhaps ?

            Commenter
            J. Fraser
            Location
            Queensland
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:45AM
        • Stephanie @10:00 - I suspect the NRL angle is seen to be good for relating to many "Men" in the Rugby League states of NSW and QLD. I'm sure a lot of League fans would see TA as more their style than KR. Pity because I suspect that KR is just as much a fan and understands the game and also can relate to AFL which I doubt TA does.

          Commenter
          Norm
          Location
          Maroubra
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 10:26AM
          • Up here in Queensland Abbott's little mate newman has just given the Broncos some public land across the road from their pokies palace for a peppercorn rent.

            A new way of "cutting red tape" ?

            Giveaway public property.

            Commenter
            J. Fraser
            Location
            Queensland
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:41AM
          • JF, so Newman is very generous after all.
            I suspect Abbotts visit to the Great Ocean Rd had a similar sense of philanthropy.
            Vic NPs are under serious threat from developers.

            Commenter
            A country gal
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:06AM
        • There is a major flaw with this blog. It updates without notice and us poor twits typing a comment lose the lot. Maybe I should be more organised like the LNP and Labor bloggers and paste my pre-written comments in. Nah, that would interrupt my tea break with my trusty IPad! Meanwhile back at the factory .... Maybe I shall catch up at afternoon tea!!

          Commenter
          TiredOfSpin
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 10:27AM
          • There's a switch above the Election Live heading at the top of the page that lets you turn off Auto Update.

            Commenter
            Whyalla Wipeout
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:52AM
          • Good advice Whyalla.

            And "TiredOfSpin" keep away from legs of lamb that costs $200.

            Commenter
            J. Fraser
            Location
            Queensland
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:03AM
          • Too many people write long winded comments. At times I just start reading them, get bored and move on. My advice: write less.

            Commenter
            Tone
            Location
            Melbourne
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:16AM
          • Yeah those alp smarties they know how to beat the auto refresh system don't they?
            I Can't wait for my side to bring in that new fangled copper broadband, You see I believe copper has been so good for the last 100 years so why should we look no further

            Commenter
            Mark C
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:36AM
          • Thanks Whyalla. Turned it off..

            Obviously the Australian population has been trained to the "quick grab" - like slogans.

            Unfortunately "glib' does not outline where the money is coming from and that, I think is going to define where the votes go.

            Commenter
            TiredOfSpin
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 12:23PM
        • I think Abbott has improved a hell of alot and his campaign has been strong and he appears confident and positive.
          But we don't hear how well Abbott has been doing even though it shows in the polls. All we hear is how bad Abbott is in the media.
          If Rudd was clearly leading in the campaign the media would be praising him and saying how wonderful he is.
          Abbott is looking and sounding like a PM at last.

          Commenter
          Matt
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 10:30AM
          • Matt, if you want wall-to-wall slavish flattery of your Tony, you should subscribe to the News Corp press. Better still, go straight to the organ-grinder and sign up to get Rupert's tweets.

            Commenter
            Whyalla Wipeout
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:45AM
          • "We don't hear how well Abbott is doing"? Really?

            There are days where it seems like that's all we hear about.

            It's this kind of selective hearing that explains why Lib supporters sometimes think Fairfax doesn't support them, and think the ABC is biased against them, and the Australian is fair and balanced.

            Commenter
            Arky
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:48AM
          • Agree Abbott is looking good and far more Prime Ministerial, but Rudd does get a bashing by NewsLtd.

            Commenter
            LD
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:56AM
          • @Matt

            Are you in the U.S. watching The Colbert Report or the Daily Show.

            Is the laughter at Abbott by the Americans getting to you ?

            Imagine how embarrassing it would be if the whole world saw Abbott at the U.N. giving a arrrrgh ..... urrrrrgh ... speech.

            Commenter
            J. Fraser
            Location
            Queensland
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:08AM
          • Noone will ever hear anything positive about Abbott or the Liberal in this Fairfax publication. They even manage to manipulate the politifact so that if there is a hint of untruth in Coalition claims it garners as much coverage as possible while any untruth from labour is quickly brushed aside.
            I was however surprised however to read about the voters in Geelong applauding Abbott for his reality until I got to the defining point where they resorted to veiled negativity towards Abbott, the point where they started the sentence with "Of course....".

            Commenter
            Fair no fax
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:20AM
          • @"Fair no fax
            Location
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:20AM

            And yet here is your post.

            Try reading some more of Fairfax Media.

            Commenter
            J. Fraser
            Location
            Queensland
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:33AM
        • Is too early to write off PNG. I will give 6 months . Let the refugees have a bit of taste of Paradise.

          Commenter
          Lindsay
          Location
          Wollstonecraft
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 10:35AM
          • World class fishing and diving in Manus, not to mention a great climate, and no persecution to boot.... Send them all there!

            Commenter
            Enrico
            Location
            Sydney
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 11:05AM
        • I hope both candidates are provided a seat tonight, unlike last night where I had to sit on the floor. The Q&A forum put on by Queanbeyan Council last night would not allow me, as an Independent Candidate, to sit on the stage with the other candidates... so I sat on the floor- for two and a half hours.

          Commenter
          Andrew Thaler
          Location
          Nimmitabel
          Date and time
          August 21, 2013, 10:35AM
          • Tony Abbott says mothers on average earnings will be $21,000 better off under the Coalition.

            PolitiFact: “The statement contains an element of truth but ignores critical facts that would give a different impression. In this case, there are several.
            We rate this claim as Mostly False.”

            PolitiFact also find that 39% of Abbott's statements are false in other words every third statement he makes is a porky?

            Question: why would any thinking person vote for liars?

            Commenter
            Pen of hrba
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:41AM
            • Pen, Because there has never been a successful politician who has not lied or been very economical with the truth.

              The alternative is to have despots impose themselves on you.

              Commenter
              Whyalla Wipeout
              Date and time
              August 21, 2013, 10:56AM
            • Good morning "Pen".

              Did you hear the one about ....

              Try to lighten up a bit today "Pen".

              I know you have it in you.

              Commenter
              J. Fraser
              Location
              Queensland
              Date and time
              August 21, 2013, 11:10AM
            • Whyalla Wipeout

              So, Abbott and Rudd lie to prevent despotism? Oh well done Whyalla, up to the top of the sheepfold you go.

              Commenter
              Pen of hrba
              Date and time
              August 21, 2013, 11:20AM
            • Pen, I did not say that at all. Obviously, politicians lie because they want power, and I have never seen telling the truth to be a successful strategy to gain election from the public, no matter how much they declare they want it.

              What I was trying to say is best expressed by Winston Churchill:

              “It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”

              Commenter
              Whyalla Wipeout
              Date and time
              August 21, 2013, 11:43AM
          • "Misery and mayhem, all in day's work"

            Saw this headline on the SMH website. I thought it was about Tony Abbott's performances over the last 4 years. Turns out it is about the incompetence of Liberal Governments.

            Commenter
            Whyalla Wipeout
            Date and time
            August 21, 2013, 10:43AM
            • Oh dear, Rudds hair has fallen and he does not realise?

              Commenter
              Pen of hrba
              Date and time
              August 21, 2013, 10:52AM
              • Puppy of hrba,

                I think Rudd looks cute with his hair all tossled : )

                Commenter
                Sharron
                Location
                Canberra
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 10:56AM
              • Mundane.

                Commenter
                J. Fraser
                Location
                Queensland
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:12AM
              • Sharon

                Cute hey? Well there you go, what other reason do you need to vote for him?

                Err, there are Pup voters here, I can assure you of that fact. Well it is nearing shearing time I trust you won't be shorn too much?

                Commenter
                Pen of hrba
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:15AM
            • Tony Abbott will fund his parental leave promise to women who earn over $75,000 by cutting funding to everything else.

              Jobs will go, pensions will be cut, cancer research funding will be cut, everything will be cut just so these women in Abbott's "high standing" can have their $32,000 baby bonuses paid for by the taxpayers of Australia.

              And that's all it is, an expensive baby bonus paid for by us! Tony Abbott will divide the country by creating a division of the classes.

              Commenter
              Sharron
              Location
              Canberra
              Date and time
              August 21, 2013, 10:53AM
              • Brought to you by Sharon "from the LNP policy centre"
                Or, was it Sharon "who just makes up stuff"?

                Commenter
                beasleyst
                Location
                Sydney
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 10:59AM
              • As opposed to paying $5000 per child to people who have never contributed to the income tax. I prefer to encourage people to have children who will not be a future burden on society rather than those whose children will most likely end up continuing their parents cycle of living on the taxpayer dime.

                Commenter
                Pawel
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:00AM
              • Sharron - you omitted the fire and brimstone that will rain down upon us if Tony Abbott is elected.

                Commenter
                Tim of Altona
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:03AM
              • beasley and tim, if Sharron is wrong, can you tell us where the money is coming from for the totality of the Liberal promises?

                Thought not.

                Commenter
                Whyalla Wipeout
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:08AM
              • That's right Tim I forgot to mention the fire and brimstone.

                So thank you for pointing that out!

                And, can all you LNP and Abbott lovers tell us voters exactly how Abbott intends to fund the $32,000 baby bonus.

                Although it does appear no one knows except Tony Abbott.

                Commenter
                Sharron
                Location
                Canberra
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:09AM
              • Well he has mentioned the 1.5% levy on the highest profit making companies, the money from the Labor PPL scheme and..? .

                "Facts" says there is a $1.5B shortfall. Now that either comes out of the $17 Billion saving (which has been spent over and over) or from more cuts or from debt.

                Hockey got flustered on Q&A when he was asked to address this question. He said it would be funded by cutting "waste" and red tape.

                The LNP did that in Qld and are still doing it. Our unemployment rate has climbed to 6.4% when the Australia's average is 5.7%. Tasmania is the only state which has a higher unemployment rate than Qld.

                The LNP unstructured cutting has much of the Qld Public Service on its knees.

                So, your guess is as good as mine as to where the extra $1.5 B will come from. However the results wont be pretty except for the wealthy Mums at home with their Bubs, paid by the taxpayer.

                Commenter
                TiredOfSpin
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 12:02PM
              • Sharron, and how many women earning over $75000 a year do you think are going to have babies. Not many I think, since most of these highly paid women are hard working professionals whose long daily work schedule conspires against them having a family and in many cases they are long past the child bearing age. This issue is being ignored when assessing how many rich parents are likely to benefit from the PPL policy.

                Commenter
                Billnix
                Location
                Western Sydney
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 12:22PM
            • I love the continued bleating by the ALP (especially Penny Wong) and the commentators as for the Coalition's policy costings. They really don't have any worthwhile message of their own do they?

              Given the previous form of the ALP in releasing costings literally hours before the poll, I hope that the Coalition continues to stonewall until as late as possible.

              Commenter
              Alternate View
              Date and time
              August 21, 2013, 10:55AM
              • That's the way who cares that Abbott has out spent Rudd by $27b so far this campaign, who cares how he plans to pay for any of his promises or if the numbers stack up, the ALP did last time so it's all ok.
                Ever heard the expression 2 wrongs don't make a right!

                Commenter
                Macca75
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 10:59AM
              • AV, the question is where the money is coming from. With most people expecting Coalition win, are you saying the public is not entitled to know where the GREAT BIG NEW CUTS are coming from. And don't say 'eliminating waste', because that is like suggesting you can cut an electricity bill by $1,000 by remembering to turn off the toilet light.

                The Liberals have form. They lied and covered up their plans in 1996 for huge cuts to services and they are doing the same again now.

                I expect to see dogs and balaclavas in factories in the next 12 months too.

                Commenter
                Whyalla Wipeout
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:06AM
              • Macca
                How would you know how much he has outspent them without costings? Or are you just relying on ALP spin figures?

                Commenter
                dcs
                Location
                Brisbane
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:13AM
              • dcs - the figures I am relying on are from that famous ALP spin publication the Herald Sun - they are published everyday.
                I am sure Rupert is just favouring the ALP though isn't he!!

                Commenter
                Macca75
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:23AM
              • The Herald Sun claimed the other day that Rudd had made $3 billion dollars worth of promises, while the Liberals have made $30 billion dollars worth of promises, and that's from the pro-Liberal Party newspaper.

                PolitiFact analysed the policy costings and found that the Liberals had promised $50 billion dollars worth of policies. Not quite the $70 billion that Labor claimed, but $50 billion dollars is $50 billion dollars.

                Unless they want to add that to the $184 billion dollars of debt Australia currently has, then they are going to have to institute a whole series of cuts.

                So where is the extra $50 billion dollars coming from? Or are they just going to go further into debt.

                The contradiction with the Liberal Party is that on one hand they claim budget emergency, while on they other hand they want to splurge another $50 billion dollars.

                It simply doesn't make sense.

                Commenter
                Tone
                Location
                Melbourne
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:25AM
              • They'll just get rid of a heap of useless green schemes, not hard. I could make $27b worth of cuts that had no effect on our cost of living in about 10 minutes....so much wasted upper income earners money

                Commenter
                I hate pies
                Location
                Qld
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:28AM
              • I hate pies - "So much wasted on upper income earners" is that why Abbott is going to pay $75k to upper income earners for having a baby, or why he is going to reverse the menas testing on private health reabte, or gut the tax on high income superannuation funds?

                If you want to cuts to high income earners welfare don't vote liberal!

                Commenter
                Macca75
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:42AM
              • @Macca75: 2 wrongs may not make a right, but it would also be relevant to note that not only have the ALP also not submitted any of their costings as yet, but when they do, the history has proven conclusively that they aren't worth the paper they are written on.

                Let's face it, when the May budget forecast for this year was revised downwards to the tune of $11billion in only 3 months, and all previous budgets in the term of the ALP government have blown out, why on earth should anyone believe that an ALP driven "review" of Coalition costing would have any credibility anyway?

                Commenter
                Alternate View
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 12:09PM
              • Ah I see Macca.
                The sacred august paper of record the Herald Sun.
                Lets wait utnil the official numbers are released, along with where the money is going to come from. Surely you dont need weeks to make up you mind on the veracity of the disclosures when they come.
                I suggest that perhaps you already have, without the benefit of numbers.

                Commenter
                dcs
                Location
                Brisbane
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 12:13PM
              • dcs - Are you seriously trying to say that the HERald sun is overstating the libs spend and understating the ALP's, I agree the Herald Sun isn't exactly the most accurate paper but it is definitely pro liberal so if anything the $30b is on the low side.

                And dcs - we don't need to wait to see the full costing to add up how much is being spent, you just have to write down what they announce everyday - the only query is how wil they pay for it.

                Commenter
                Macca75
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 1:09PM
              • Alternate View - The PBO was set up by Costello and is not "ALP driven" it is an independent body with the resources of the treasury behind it - if the libs don't trust it now who will they get to do treasury's work while in power?

                Commenter
                Macca75
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 1:12PM
            • I would like to know why Tony Abbott refuses to debate Clive Palmer.

              As a voter, I would like to see both Tony Abbott and Kevin Rudd debate Clive Palmer.

              Clive Palmer doesn't need notes either!

              Commenter
              Sharron
              Location
              Canberra
              Date and time
              August 21, 2013, 10:59AM
              • That's because Clive Palmer is irrelevant. He doesn't have a proven voter base. Why would they debate such an irrelevant character when there are much more worthy parties with significant proven voter bases.

                Commenter
                Tone
                Location
                Melbourne
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:12AM
              • PUP is a one election wonder and will disappear from the scene after Sept 07, in other words totally irrelevant to the political debate or future of Australia.

                Commenter
                Tim of Altona
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:16AM
              • Tim,

                Tony Abbott has already proven that he is an election failure. So how many elections does your Tony Abbott have to lose before he is replaced by Julie Bishop or someone else better than Abbott?

                It always amazes me how nasty the LNP becomes when they feel threatened by Labor, or a new political party.

                Commenter
                Sharron
                Location
                Canberra
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:20AM
            • Kev is not looking well. Puffy and red around the face and eyes. Looks under big pressure.

              Commenter
              Billyboy
              Date and time
              August 21, 2013, 11:08AM
              • It's called bruised ego. The polls and Abbott are getting to him and his ego.
                Mr "not so popular" anymore and it hurts like hell obviously.

                Commenter
                Gerry
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 12:07PM
            • J.Fraser, We are still waiting for an answer from you, why did 7 Labor MPs refuse to work with Rudd.
              Ask Whyalla Wipeout he is another "know all" who is getting more desperate by the day.
              Tell me have you two got jobs to go to after September 8th.

              Commenter
              thepres
              Date and time
              August 21, 2013, 11:13AM
              • Why did just 1 vote short of a majority (with an opposing vote stuck in hospital) of Liberal MP's vote against Abbott being the leader?

                Who cares who the leader of the party is it's the policies that count.

                Commenter
                Macca75
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:21AM
              • thepres, that is a bit of gratuitous irrelevant put-down.

                Out of interest, is there a Liberal party training course for posters to say nasty vicious put-downs in the course of peddling irrelevant distractions. Or are you guys naturals.

                In answer to your questions, though, I will be doing after the election what I am doing now, regardless of who wins.

                As for those who would not work with Rudd, the reality is, as I have commented in the past, that Rudd only screwed up the Labor Party in the last 3 years. Abbott has screwed up the country, with partisan politics on boat arrivals (keeping them coming for political purposes), carbon pricing (telling the most outrageous lies about the impact of the carbon price) and the disgustingly immoral destruction of Peter Slipper, to name but a few.

                And if, as expected, Tony becomes the next Prime Minister he will serve his paymasters by ensuring that they can continue to get big tax subsidies for their Mercedes Benz (used for work purposes, ha, ha, ha) and his doctor members by wrecking health care again.

                And services will be slashed. I know this because he is so desperate that nobody know how he is going to pay for the totality of his promises.

                Commenter
                Whyalla Wipeout
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:27AM
              • Dearest "the pres"

                Do you really want me to answer for 7 different people.

                Do you answer questions to your wife ?

                It's Time .... for you to stop being silly.

                Commenter
                J. Fraser
                Location
                Queensland
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:36AM
              • It's probably for the same reason a significant proportion of the Liberal Party didn't renew their membership when Tony Abbott took over as leader (Even Malcolm Fraser resigned from the Liberal Party.) That is, so many more people prefer Malcolm Turnbull.

                That is, not everyone gets along with everyone else, and that's ok.

                Commenter
                Tone
                Location
                Melbourne
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:55AM
            • Stephanie, you ask what is it with rugby league teams and the coalition?
              Maybe gambling interests, they were both opposed to any tightening of gambling regulation

              Commenter
              Mark C
              Date and time
              August 21, 2013, 11:20AM
              • They both expect people to believe anything they tell them?

                Commenter
                Pen of hrba
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:50AM
              • Maybe the Coalition has provided assurance to the NRL and the AFL and the rest of the sporting fraternity in this country that they won't be pursuing the ASADA witch hunt launched by a desperate government to distract from its systemic failures.

                Commenter
                Nulla
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 12:41PM
              • Mark,

                Obviously you didn't see Peter Beattie & his wife(?) all over the news yesterday in their NRL State of Origin Queensland jerseys.
                Beattie had his name on the back & the No.1.
                His wife(?) had the name Rudd.

                Commenter
                beasleyst
                Location
                Sydney
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 1:10PM
              • Nulla
                You obviously missed today's news on Cronulla.
                ASADA told us in May that it would take until October unless players agreed to cooperate. Players aren't cooperating.

                Commenter
                Steve
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 2:14PM
              • Steve, what exactly are the players meant to comply with? ASADA has no evidence, no allegations and no charges. All it has is a desire to interview every Australian sportsperson in the hope they might find their smoking gun.

                Commenter
                Nulla
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 5:02PM
            • Hey, Fraser

              I am tying to communicate with you but my post is not being posted, why is that?

              Night and day you are the one?

              Commenter
              Pen of hrba
              Date and time
              August 21, 2013, 11:24AM
              • And vice versa.

                Commenter
                J. Fraser
                Location
                Queensland
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:31AM
              • How romantic!

                Commenter
                Sharron
                Location
                Canberra
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:59AM
              • maybe after yesterday's by Mr Fraser's post we should all met at the races.

                Commenter
                terry
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 12:38PM
            • J. F-r-a-s-e-r

              Lighting up?

              Dumbstruck why any thinking person would vote for liars, heh, Fraser? But of the mind boat people drowning’s will cease by, “Open[ing] up immigration.”

              Wow, Fraser that’s brilliant, open the gates, THAT’S TODAYS WINNER. But wait, how many do we open the gates for? Our 2012-13 legal immigration: 190,000. Boat arrivals account for 17710 + 2833 up to 19 July, + 2305 since 19 July + 106 yesterday total 22954 making a grand total so far this year of 212954 extra people.

              I hate to be pedantic, but at 642 KL (642000 litres) per capita additional water use would be 136.71 billion litres each year $24 billion; climate change already has Australian water resources in decline.

              At 10869 KWH per capita we require an additional 2.31 billion KWH of power generation (2.31 terawatt hours), which means burning 1.1 million more tonnes of coal each year ($91.3 billion), plus about $500 million worth of power infrastructure expansion, or 391 wind turbines ($2.07 billion).

              Are you beginning to understand why infrastructure costs lag behind population growth by almost $1 trillion?

              So, this year’s intake to date is 212954 and you want to open the gates further, when in June 2013 we had an estimated 1.2 million Australians (9.7% of the workforce) unemployed? Therefore most immigrants will be Centrelink clients say another $2.7 billion.

              At what point will the boat people stop, Fraser? Bearing in mind that the United Nations refugee agency states the number of refugees and displaced people around the world rose to 45.2 million last year?

              So what is your detailed answer on “opening up immigration within the norms of humanitarianism? Bearing in mind it is estimated that over 70% of Australians want immigration stopped; a small point of democracy for you to consider.

              Commenter
              Pen of hrba
              Date and time
              August 21, 2013, 11:33AM
              • @"Pen"

                Are you referring to me in the MA THais code ?

                If so .... I am laughing.

                Commenter
                J. Fraser
                Location
                Queensland
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:54AM
              • @"Pen"

                Which politician do you consider not to be a "liar" and who you also would not vote for ?

                You're never voting sure does make me laugh at your comments.

                Commenter
                J. Fraser
                Location
                Queensland
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:58AM
              • Seriously, does anyone actually read the whole of Pen's posts? I get to about paragraph 2 or 3 and then go, wow, this is like one of those old guys that keeps going on and on and on about nothing.

                No wonder twitter is so successful.

                Commenter
                Tone
                Location
                Melbourne
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 11:58AM
              • @"Pen"

                Fantastic set of numbers.

                Ever thought of coming out of retirement and running the country (perhaps Kim Jong Un style ?).

                If you do I think you will then be joined by a lot of Australians who don't bother to vote.

                Commenter
                J. Fraser
                Location
                Queensland
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 12:00PM
              • J, Fraser

                SO, YOU ARE UNABLE TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS; WHAT A SURPRISE.

                Commenter
                Pen of hrba
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 12:19PM
              • Tone

                Now your opinion is that immigration is about nothing? Or it is about nothing because of my age? Or Tone has nothing to write other than absurdities?

                Commenter
                Pen of hrba
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 12:24PM
              • No Pen, I'm saying your posts are long-winded and boring. You're trying to lecture us.

                Commenter
                Tone
                Location
                Melbourne
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 1:09PM
            • At we have an answer with:

              Abbott and Rudd lie to prevent despotism, by no other than Whyalla Wipeout

              There you have it folks: liars or despots
              the choice is yours.

              Err, didn't Hitler, Stalin, and good old Adi tell lies? Back to to the question:

              Why would any thinking person vote for liars?

              Commenter
              Pen of hrba
              Date and time
              August 21, 2013, 11:42AM
              • Pen, you would clearly prefer lying despots to lying democrats (even if Abbott did unforgivingly trash-talk our Constitution in 2010).

                Your call mate. But I suggest you try living in Russia or Zimbabwe and then tell us which set of lying bastards is better to live with.

                Commenter
                Whyalla Wipeout
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 12:05PM
              • If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. Quit whingeing and do something about it. Run yourself perhaps on a platform of integrity, but stop whining about your unwillingness to engage to us..

                Commenter
                dcs
                Location
                Brisbane
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 12:06PM
              • Whyalla Wipeout

                Did I state that I preferred despots to liars?

                I have not mentioned the word despot at all other than referring to YOUR MENTIONING OF THE WORD.

                Do you understand what you have done, Whyalla? Read up on errors of reason and pay attention to post hoc ergo propter hoc.

                Commenter
                Pen of hrba
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 12:37PM
              • dcs

                You seem to be deluded by the fallacy that because a person actually states irrefutable facts then that person with the facts can solve the problem the facts raise. When in fact only the majority can solve the problem that the facts raise.

                In other words you are confused.

                Commenter
                Pen of hrba
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 12:45PM
              • Evil is the result of good people doing nothing. According to your logic, for the majority to be able to effect a change they need someone honest to elect. Stand up and be counted rather than being a Monday morning coach.
                Im not confused at all.

                Commenter
                dcs
                Location
                Brisbane
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 3:11PM
            • This cut cut cut to the bone mantra is driving me insane!
              Kevin Rudd PLEASE start talking like an adult! Give us something else, anything. Maybe even spend sometime talking about what you have to offer would be a change rather than talking about cut cut cut to the bone for gods sake!
              He only has a few more weeks to sell his Govt but all he can talk about is Abott Abbott Abbott cut cut cut to the bone.

              Commenter
              FLT
              Date and time
              August 21, 2013, 11:53AM
              • Yes, just like the LNP in Qld cut, cut, cut to the bone, and are still cutting to the bone.

                Commenter
                TiredOfSpin
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 12:12PM
              • @"FLT"

                Expect to see Abbott using it soon.

                Just like .. "feisty", "hyperventilating" etc

                Copy catting appears to be the boxing ring Abbott is in.

                Commenter
                J. Fraser
                Location
                Queensland
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 12:25PM
            • Hiding is cheating, Kevin's notes were out there Everyone can see, so what the big deal.All voters want to know where the money come from to fund thier promises.

              Commenter
              Swee Chen
              Date and time
              August 21, 2013, 11:55AM
              • Yes, well it just demonstrates that Kev is going solo as he always has. He blames his advisers for not telling him he couldn't take in notes.
                Since when does Kev listen to anyone other than Kevin. No wonder the party sent Butler in to keep watch on Kev.

                Commenter
                beasleyst
                Location
                Sydney
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 1:07PM
            • "Mr Rudd says he is preparing for this evening's community forum by talking to "real people"."
              Well..That's a change. No selected journalists from the press gallery?

              Commenter
              Now you see him
              Location
              Soon you won't
              Date and time
              August 21, 2013, 11:57AM
              • I hope that someone will ask a simple question " What is happening to the voters after each election and why are they IRRELEVANT if democracy is the heart and soul of our society?

                Commenter
                half
                Location
                Sydney
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 12:18PM
            • Wow...Mr Rudd is promising money at every stop he makes.
              When will this farce stop?

              Commenter
              Taxpayer's
              Location
              Bottomless pit
              Date and time
              August 21, 2013, 12:01PM
              • He is still 30bn sorry of Abbott's spendathon. So I guess it still has a long way to go.

                Commenter
                Steve
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 2:09PM
            • It's the halfway mark of the campaign. It's all downhill from here. Can we make it? Yes we can.
              So far we have been bombarded with lies and phony promises and not a word about about what the naughty Pauline Hanson or the most hated politician in this country regarding her main policy CITIZENS INITIATED REFERENDUM that the main political parties hate to have.
              A system in which will allow Australians to petition the government and demand that a particular issue be put to a binding vote of the whole electorate. The petition could relate to a new law or a law already enacted, or to change the Constitution.

              Commenter
              half
              Location
              Sydney
              Date and time
              August 21, 2013, 12:03PM
              • @ 11.34
                "Here in Bris" says Kevin in Brisbane.

                We need a folky-ness-meter for Rudd. When he emits a folksy-note at the peoples forum tonight an automaton mini Kevin at the bottom of the screen could do an energetic animated fringe flick.

                Commenter
                yys
                Date and time
                August 21, 2013, 12:04PM
                • 11.53am : Comment by Kevin Rudd - I challenge anybody to come up with an effective policy - the PM and Tony Burke have said that their PNG solution is the "effective policy" - what is happening here?

                  Commenter
                  Baltic13
                  Date and time
                  August 21, 2013, 12:09PM
                  • Why have the last two featured comments both been pro-Liberal? Why have they focused on comments mocking Rudd's legitimate point about where the money will come from to pay for Abbott's promises.

                    It can only be either massively increased borrowing, much higher taxes (hello GST broadening or increases) or savage cuts to services.

                    Abbott won't let us see how his budget numbers add up, but they clearly do not add up. He claims to be anti-debt and has ruled out a GST increase. There have to be savage cuts.

                    Whoever decides the featured comment seems to have an agenda of their own.

                    Commenter
                    Whyalla Wipeout
                    Date and time
                    August 21, 2013, 12:10PM
                    • Well of course Abbott would be at the Volvo factory!

                      Commenter
                      Sharron
                      Location
                      Canberra
                      Date and time
                      August 21, 2013, 12:10PM
                      • And your point is - only rich people drive Volvos - not true>>

                        Commenter
                        Baltic13
                        Date and time
                        August 21, 2013, 12:30PM
                      • Sharron, Volvo manufacture trucks in Australia and provide 1000+ jobs to the QLD community. What is your point?

                        Thought so.

                        Commenter
                        Tim of Altona
                        Date and time
                        August 21, 2013, 12:51PM
                      • Volvo - great truck manufacturing enterprise. Profitable & no $$$Bn'ssss government handouts of other people's money.

                        Mind you, they do make sought after products & their workers are not on $180K plus plus plus.

                        Commenter
                        Lewis
                        Location
                        Sydney
                        Date and time
                        August 21, 2013, 1:03PM
                    • Kevin Rudd opened the election campaign with a promise to end relentless negativity. If continually rabbiting the 3 word slogan (no irony there either) "cut, cut, cut" isn't negative, what is?

                      I am worried though that he may actually break his own hand if he keeps slamming it with his cutting hand much longer.

                      Commenter
                      Alternate View
                      Date and time
                      August 21, 2013, 12:13PM
                        • Yes he did, didn't he, and now he's taken one of the Liberal's Policies - to be relentlessly negative. Stop it Rudd. Stop copying Abbott's relentless negativity.

                          Commenter
                          Tone
                          Location
                          Melbourne
                          Date and time
                          August 21, 2013, 12:56PM
                        • Tone
                          Don't worry. Rudd still has 3 years of negativity to catch up on. And in 3 years time, Abbott will still be at it. He doesn't have any other card to play.

                          Commenter
                          Steve
                          Date and time
                          August 21, 2013, 1:39PM
                      • A must have ap! Ruddymade.com.au

                        Commenter
                        Dez
                        Location
                        Hong Kong
                        Date and time
                        August 21, 2013, 12:13PM
                        • Cut & paste from yesterday "Pen".

                          Its Time ..... for you to go outside and get your veggie patch ready.

                          Commenter
                          J. Fraser
                          Location
                          Queensland
                          Date and time
                          August 21, 2013, 12:22PM
                        • Perhaps you could dive bomb them with the drones. Drones is a stupid idea. They are expensive to operate and won't stop the smugglers from capsizing the boats - they will just get smarter about it.

                          The only way to stop the boats is to give the asylum seekers an alternative. Set up an asylum seeker processing centre in Indonesia and process them there.

                          Warn asylum seekers that anyone that comes by boat and not via the processing centre will will considered an economic refugee and will never settle in Australia.

                          Get in with the US, Canada, New Zealand, and anyone with a bit of compassion and work out how to share the load.

                          Increase the incentive to enter via the processing centre. While they are waiting to enter, give them cultural, English language and skills training.

                          Surely that would cost a lot less than any of the current arrangements. And by being in Indonesia, the processing centre will remove the incentive to go by boat.

                          Commenter
                          Tom
                          Location
                          Canberra
                          Date and time
                          August 21, 2013, 12:27PM
                        • A good laugh - but unfortunatley for Kevin Rudd it is all true!!

                          Commenter
                          Baltic13
                          Date and time
                          August 21, 2013, 12:27PM
                        • "I challenge anybody to come up with an effective policy," Mr Rudd says.'

                          Just read the main policies of Pauline Hanson THE ONLY ONE..... it is the people who are supreme and not the political parties.

                          When "Shit happens" whose fault?

                          Commenter
                          half
                          Location
                          Sydney
                          Date and time
                          August 21, 2013, 12:53PM
                        • You clearly think your continued absurdities actually answers the question.

                          Tangents of absurdities are the tools of the absurd, obviously this logic also escapes you. The fact that my argument remains consistent does not in anyway weaken my argument. Why would any rational person argue otherwise other than to appeal to irrelevance. Your tangent of garden is also totally irrelevant.

                          In a nutshell, Fraser you are demonstrating your inabilities and your limitations.

                          Commenter
                          Pen of hrba
                          Date and time
                          August 21, 2013, 12:56PM
                        • Resettle the Australians on Christmas Island on the Australian mainland. The only industry there is the Detention Centre.

                          Then gift Christmas Island to Indonesia.

                          That stops the short route to Australia by old unseaworthy boats.

                          Commenter
                          TiredOfSpin
                          Date and time
                          August 21, 2013, 12:59PM
                        • "A wretched soul, bruised with adversity,
                          We bid be quiet when we hear it cry;
                          But were we burdened with like weight of pain,
                          As much or more we should ourselves complain.
                          William Shakespeare

                          Fare thee well "Pen".

                          Commenter
                          J. Fraser
                          Location
                          Queensland
                          Date and time
                          August 21, 2013, 1:05PM
                        • Tom

                          No, Tom your idea costs a lot more on increased infrastructure requirement alone.

                          Please understand that the thrust of my argument is to stop people drowning.

                          Commenter
                          Pen of hrba
                          Date and time
                          August 21, 2013, 1:09PM
                        • You're being deceptive Pen, no one know the cost of the Indonesian solution because it hasn't been implemented and costed.

                          Would it stop the boats? Would it provide more productive asylum seekers?

                          You're manipulating how it turns out to support your argument. That's as bad as lying. You don't lie do you Pen?

                          Commenter
                          Tom
                          Location
                          Canberra
                          Date and time
                          August 21, 2013, 1:20PM
                        • Tired of spin
                          If you gift Indonesia Christmas Island, you also give away the Timor sea oil reserves.

                          Commenter
                          Steve
                          Date and time
                          August 21, 2013, 1:36PM
                        • Still peddling that lie, Steve. Christmas Island is 1700 miles from the Timor Gap.

                          Commenter
                          Rodrigo
                          Date and time
                          August 21, 2013, 2:46PM
                      • "I challenge anybody to come up with an effective policy," Mr Rudd says.'''

                        The only way to stop boat people drowning is to have drones in the air with real time video down link and radar capability, satellite imagery downloaded to border protection vessels and the drones. More high speed interception boats to provide high rate of boats intercepted and turned around with only sufficient fuel to reach Indonesia.

                        Crews photographed and fingerprints taken, issue of informal and formal warning of mandatory 20 years imprisonment and boat destruction for any repeat offence.

                        The few that make it to Christmas Island place on board vessels and tow their boats to border of Indonesian waters on good weather days, place them back on boat, or if considered unseaworthy sink it. Place them in inflatable craft with outboard motors, notify Indonesian authorities of their precise location.

                        Make it clear to Indonesia that Indonesia made itself a transit country despite Australia not wanting people in transit.

                        It is not incumbent on Australia to support in any way criminal activity conducted on Indonesian soil.

                        We will support the financing of regional refugee centres along with our regional neighbours to help support the regional refugee problem, but we will not allow anyone to enter Australia without due process.

                        If the Indonesians don't like it, tough, we don't like wasting billions on a problem of their making.

                        Commenter
                        Pen of hrba
                        Date and time
                        August 21, 2013, 12:13PM
                          • Cut & paste from yesterday "Pen".

                            Its Time ..... for you to go outside and get your veggie patch ready.

                            Commenter
                            J. Fraser
                            Location
                            Queensland
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:22PM
                          • Perhaps you could dive bomb them with the drones. Drones is a stupid idea. They are expensive to operate and won't stop the smugglers from capsizing the boats - they will just get smarter about it.

                            The only way to stop the boats is to give the asylum seekers an alternative. Set up an asylum seeker processing centre in Indonesia and process them there.

                            Warn asylum seekers that anyone that comes by boat and not via the processing centre will will considered an economic refugee and will never settle in Australia.

                            Get in with the US, Canada, New Zealand, and anyone with a bit of compassion and work out how to share the load.

                            Increase the incentive to enter via the processing centre. While they are waiting to enter, give them cultural, English language and skills training.

                            Surely that would cost a lot less than any of the current arrangements. And by being in Indonesia, the processing centre will remove the incentive to go by boat.

                            Commenter
                            Tom
                            Location
                            Canberra
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:27PM
                          • A good laugh - but unfortunatley for Kevin Rudd it is all true!!

                            Commenter
                            Baltic13
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:27PM
                          • "I challenge anybody to come up with an effective policy," Mr Rudd says.'

                            Just read the main policies of Pauline Hanson THE ONLY ONE..... it is the people who are supreme and not the political parties.

                            When "Shit happens" whose fault?

                            Commenter
                            half
                            Location
                            Sydney
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:53PM
                          • You clearly think your continued absurdities actually answers the question.

                            Tangents of absurdities are the tools of the absurd, obviously this logic also escapes you. The fact that my argument remains consistent does not in anyway weaken my argument. Why would any rational person argue otherwise other than to appeal to irrelevance. Your tangent of garden is also totally irrelevant.

                            In a nutshell, Fraser you are demonstrating your inabilities and your limitations.

                            Commenter
                            Pen of hrba
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:56PM
                          • Resettle the Australians on Christmas Island on the Australian mainland. The only industry there is the Detention Centre.

                            Then gift Christmas Island to Indonesia.

                            That stops the short route to Australia by old unseaworthy boats.

                            Commenter
                            TiredOfSpin
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:59PM
                          • "A wretched soul, bruised with adversity,
                            We bid be quiet when we hear it cry;
                            But were we burdened with like weight of pain,
                            As much or more we should ourselves complain.
                            William Shakespeare

                            Fare thee well "Pen".

                            Commenter
                            J. Fraser
                            Location
                            Queensland
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 1:05PM
                          • Tom

                            No, Tom your idea costs a lot more on increased infrastructure requirement alone.

                            Please understand that the thrust of my argument is to stop people drowning.

                            Commenter
                            Pen of hrba
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 1:09PM
                          • You're being deceptive Pen, no one know the cost of the Indonesian solution because it hasn't been implemented and costed.

                            Would it stop the boats? Would it provide more productive asylum seekers?

                            You're manipulating how it turns out to support your argument. That's as bad as lying. You don't lie do you Pen?

                            Commenter
                            Tom
                            Location
                            Canberra
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 1:20PM
                          • Tired of spin
                            If you gift Indonesia Christmas Island, you also give away the Timor sea oil reserves.

                            Commenter
                            Steve
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 1:36PM
                          • Still peddling that lie, Steve. Christmas Island is 1700 miles from the Timor Gap.

                            Commenter
                            Rodrigo
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 2:46PM
                        • Yes, halfway through the election campaign and it's becoming very clear that the ALP's decision to reinstate Kevin Rudd was a risky one indeed.

                          Time will tell if he has indeed saved any furniture, but even though my political leaning is well known, I do feel sorry for Chris Bowen, because I think he is probably the nicest and most fair dinkum ALP member in the caucus and he's probably not going to be re-elected.

                          Commenter
                          Alternate View
                          Date and time
                          August 21, 2013, 12:18PM
                          • From recent media reports there are a lot of questions that need to be answered by Mr Bowen's Liberal opponent in the seat of McMahon. Don't write-off Bowen yet - the NSW "disease" isn't confined to the ALP.

                            Commenter
                            BC
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:27PM
                          • BC What does the opponent of Chris Bowen have to explain or answer? Be careful of what you say based on spin and lies from Rudd and others. Please answer specific queries you have

                            Commenter
                            Lyle Marshall
                            Location
                            Castle Hill
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:36PM
                          • Why do I need to "be careful" for having pointed out that there have been media stories about questions that should be answered? Aren't all candidates open for scrutiny - or is that to be "warned off" when it comes to conservatives?

                            Commenter
                            BC
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:52PM
                          • BC , What are your specific accusations or questions about the opponent of Chris Bowen? You are the one who raised it in this forum you need to stand up and declare what your allegations are and not do a spin by referring to other news articles.

                            Commenter
                            Lyle Marshall
                            Location
                            CAstle Hill
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 1:09PM
                          • Such as other news articles you have a history of referring to with allegations about Labor impropriety? Get off your high horse, Lyle - if he has nothing to worry about then why are you so concerned about newspaper articles being referred to?

                            Commenter
                            BC
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 1:23PM
                          • BC, Come on be a man or woman and tell us what you are specifically reffering to regarding Chris Bowens opponent. What has the person done to have you make such a claim. If you can not answer that you open yourself to be accused of being a rumour monger and spin doctor. You made a reference to something you can not back up and should either back it up or withdraw the comment and apologise.

                            Commenter
                            Lyle Marshall
                            Location
                            Castle Hill
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 1:43PM
                        • Thanks Whyalla. Turned it off..

                          Obviously the Australian population has been trained to the "quick grab" - like slogans.

                          Unfortunately "glib' does not outline where the money is coming from and that, I think is going to define where the votes go.

                          Commenter
                          TiredOfSpin
                          Date and time
                          August 21, 2013, 12:28PM
                          • @TiredOfSpin

                            You could also thank me for warning you off paying $200 for a leg of mutton.

                            Commenter
                            J. Fraser
                            Location
                            Queensland
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:37PM
                          • J Fraser: My family does not mutton. Now a leg of lamb .......

                            Commenter
                            TiredOfSpin
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:55PM
                          • Do think that under a direct democracy we would allow to be trained to the "quick grab"

                            Commenter
                            half
                            Location
                            Sydney
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:57PM
                          • J. Fraser

                            Stop exaggerating what Barnaby and Tony said. It was only a perfectly acceptable $100 for a lamb roast.

                            Strangely, I haven't heard Barnaby make the claim since....

                            Commenter
                            Whyalla Wipeout
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:59PM
                        • Mr Rudd is fighting a war against the Liberals who refuse to open up on what they are doing, what it will all cost and where the $ will come from. And another war against media barons, one of whom is not even an Aussie citizen, hell bent on getting their own way rregardless of how they do it. But one question to Mr ABbott - WHY are you too SCARED to go on Q and A before election day?

                          Commenter
                          Ange T Kenos
                          Date and time
                          August 21, 2013, 12:29PM
                          • Rudd is spending money like its going out of fashion with all his handouts this election campaign. Where are his costings? How will he fund it?? Maybe lets start there, before Rudd starts throwing stones.

                            Commenter
                            Sarah of Carnegie
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:35PM
                          • Do we expect Kev to front Alan Jones before election day ?

                            It's a similar proposition.

                            Commenter
                            Hacka
                            Location
                            Canberra
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:38PM
                          • Ange, Q&A watchers for the most part will vote for Rudd. Besides, Tony Jones would rather interrupt his conservative guests than let them answer questions.

                            Commenter
                            brian
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:41PM
                          • At least Rudd won his war with Julia.

                            Think of it as a consolation prize Ange.

                            Commenter
                            SteveH.
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:46PM
                          • Sarah the PEFO covered most of his costings and had an amount in there for yet to be announced policies.
                            Why be so one eyed asking for Labor's costings and yet no concern for the billions the libs are putting out there?

                            Commenter
                            Mark C
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:48PM
                          • The only "war" Kevin Rudd fought and won, was the one to bring down his own party and Prime Minister.

                            Commenter
                            beasleyst
                            Location
                            Sydney
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:49PM
                          • Sarah of Carnegie, the Herald Sun has Rudd's cost of promises at $3 billion dollars as opposed to the Coalition's $30 billion dollars. And that's the pro-Liberal newspaper.

                            PolitiFact has the Liberal's budget blackhole at $50 billion dollars.

                            The fact check figure on Australian debt, which Hockey agreed to the other night on Q&A was $184 billion dollars.

                            Add the current estimated costings and you get a total of:
                            Labor $187 billion dollars
                            Liberal $234 billion dollars

                            If anyone is spending money as though it is going out of fashion, it's the Liberals.

                            And if the Liberals are going to achieve a budget surplus, then they need to cut costs or raise taxes to the tune of $234 billion dollars.

                            So what are they going to cut? What taxes are they going to introduce?

                            Commenter
                            Tone
                            Location
                            Melbourne
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:53PM
                          • Marc - I'm interested to hear about Liberals costings as well. But that has been beaten to death on these forums.

                            Commenter
                            Sarah of Carnegie
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:54PM
                          • If we had a direct democracy we wouldn't have to listen to the b.....

                            Commenter
                            half
                            Location
                            Sydney
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:54PM
                          • Oh, Sarah of Carnegie, another Liberal fact denier who holds her hands over her ears, closes her eyes and sings 'la,la,la,la' endlessly to avoid hearing the answers to the questions they asked.

                            The Economic Statement and PEFO spelt it all out. Labor has added $3 billion of promises since then. The Liberals have added $30 billion and counting and still say it is all paid for in the budget reply statement in May.

                            No Liberal actually believes the shortfall won't be paid for in higher taxes and savage cuts. That's why when you ask them, their 'answer' is something to do with Labor.

                            The cuts are coming, don't you worry about that. And a lot of mugs who will vote Liberal in this election will be first up against the wall when Joe takes over.

                            Commenter
                            Whyalla Wipeout
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:57PM
                          • Ange (aka Tony Jones).

                            Don't be cranky that Tony Abbott won't go on your show. To be fair why would he go on Q&A with its limited audience? There are many more programs that rate better and reach out to a wider audience than Q&A.

                            Maybe he just doesn't like it. I've seen it a few times and certainly wouldn't recommend it.

                            He has been intervied many times by Leigh Sales and I would say she is a far superior journalist so it is not an anti ABC thing. Her program always rates higher (even on Monday when Q&A had the Treasurers debate) so I think Tony Abbott is reaching a bigger audience on a a better program. Simple really.

                            But you keep trying Tony.

                            Commenter
                            Smokin Mo
                            Location
                            Ryde
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 1:03PM
                          • Whyalla Wipeout - I'm a just a taxpayer that is not eligible to vote. I am just concerned where all my tax dollars are being spent. Now traditionally, when I was voting in my country of origin I voted Labor.

                            Commenter
                            Sarah of Carnegie
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 1:05PM
                          • Sarah, the reason people are still asking about Liberal costings is that it is impossible for an intelligent person to vote without knowing how their taxes will be taken or spent. We know most detail of Labor's policies. It is not acceptable to ask us to vote without telling us these details. We can only assume the worst if Abbott won't tell us.

                            Commenter
                            QED
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 1:08PM
                          • QED,

                            "it is impossible for an intelligent person to vote without knowing how their taxes will be taken or spent."

                            I take it from that comment you are either not intelligent, or you voted LNP at the last 2 elections!

                            Commenter
                            beasleyst
                            Location
                            Sydney
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 1:17PM
                          • QED - your quite right. However, I don't believe that Abbott will allow the voters to go to the polls without releasing his costings.

                            Commenter
                            Sarah of Carnegie
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 1:21PM
                          • Tony Abbott repeatedly rejected requests to appear before a studio audience for a solid hour on Q&A. Julia Gillard fronted up.

                            Abbott also rejected Leigh Sales suggestion that she moderate a head to head televised debate between him and Rudd on 7.30.

                            Abbott opted for a subcriber only pay tv debate and 2 community forums in Sydney & Qld which are not televised on free to air tv in prime time, and unlike the ABC does not provide full transcripts and free video footage online.

                            By going for the community debate options, Abbott avoids the level of scrutiny that Greenaway candidate Jaymes Diaz (quesioned 8 consecutive times about his 6 point stop the boats plan) and Julie Bishop (asked 8 consecutive times where she'd deport recognised refugees to) faced when questioned by professional journalists.

                            In the interests of giving everyone equal time, a member of the public simply is not given the option to ask more than 2 questions on the same topic.

                            This means politicians can get away with non-answers, whereas they can't when asked 6 or 8 times.

                            Swapping between questioners also gives politicians more breathing space and time to give carefully scripted answers.

                            That's why I prefer a single, relentless interviewer like Laurie Oakes or Kerry O'Brien firing question after question until the politician breaks and tells the truth instead of giving us well rehearsed lines drilled into them by spinmeisters.

                            The Coalition's shenanigans in withholding permission for the independent PBO to release its 200 policy costings with ony 15 days until 5 Sep 2013 (Abbott said they'll be available for POST ELECTION scrutiny) demonstrates why all PBO costings should be released for all parties without their consent 2 months prior to the election date.

                            Commenter
                            Tristan
                            Location
                            Melbourne
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 1:24PM
                          • Hacka
                            Alan Jones hasn't invited him.

                            Commenter
                            Steve
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 1:31PM
                          • hahahaha, you are funny: a person born in Australia, changing citizenship is no longer Australian - a person born in the Ukraine, changing citizenship and wins a silver medal is suddenly Australian ... hahahaha

                            Commenter
                            ET
                            Location
                            Lakesland
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 1:39PM
                          • Rudd released his costings 16 hours before the polls opened in 2007. Abbott can do the same. Fair is fair.

                            Commenter
                            Rodrigo
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 2:44PM
                          • So Rodrigo, Rudd's alleged standards are Abbott's standards. Puts the lie to him doesn't it. They really should get smarter shills.

                            Commenter
                            Whyalla Wipeout
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 3:15PM
                        • So Abbott's PPL scheme costings are only "half true" because Peter believes Abbott is lying about the PBO report into the costings.
                          Doe's he really think Abbott could get away with lying about the PBO report? Surely someone would have come out and said so if that really was the case.
                          How could and why would Abbott lie about the PBO report when we are all going to see it when it's released.

                          Commenter
                          Jack
                          Date and time
                          August 21, 2013, 12:44PM
                            • He's got away with lying about everything else. Just saying.

                              Commenter
                              Tone
                              Location
                              Melbourne
                              Date and time
                              August 21, 2013, 1:08PM
                            • Haha ha. Just like their half true ruling on the ACTU's new negative IR campaign. "We'll just say half true just in case, maybe, just maybe, on the off chance someone is lying."

                              Or is it "I can't see anything but I can smell it."

                              Commenter
                              Lewis
                              Location
                              Sydney
                              Date and time
                              August 21, 2013, 1:14PM
                            • Abbott has gotten away with so many lies over the last 4 years, not the least being the $30 billion hole in his 2010 election calculations.

                              So why wouldn't he lie about the PBO report? If he has nothing to hide, why won't he release it to the public.

                              (cue mantra of Labor bad, blah blah blah.)

                              Commenter
                              Whyalla Wipeout
                              Date and time
                              August 21, 2013, 1:15PM
                            • Good article on the main site describing things that you say during an argument that show you are losing it. One of them..."Im just saying"

                              Commenter
                              dcs
                              Location
                              Brisbane
                              Date and time
                              August 21, 2013, 1:16PM
                            • Jack
                              The PBO is obliged to keep all reports confidential.
                              It shows how professional or public service is that they haven't leaked it.

                              Commenter
                              Steve
                              Date and time
                              August 21, 2013, 1:28PM
                          • So Rudd has just referred to Andrew Forrest as "The old Twigster".

                            I think the pressure of the campaign is starting to show

                            Commenter
                            Tim of Altona
                            Date and time
                            August 21, 2013, 12:47PM
                            • I am getting so sick of the asylum seeker arguments and the demonising of those who pay the people smugglers many $ to catch a boat to Christmas Island.

                              I don't think anyone should be put into a position of risk of drowning.

                              I don't think that refugees in camps around the world should miss out on settlement because we are inundated by smuggler's boats heading to Christmas island.

                              I don't like PNG being used as a deterrent location.

                              I think our resettlement and Aid money can be better spent.

                              Christmas Island is very close to Indonesia. It is an Australian possession because of the guano mining. Now there is little to no industry on the island except the Detention Centre.

                              Why don't we relocate the Australians on Christmas Is and give the island to Indonesia?

                              Christmas Island is a smuggler target because of the short distance between the island and mainland.

                              The smuggler boats would have a much further journey to the mainland of WA or the Northern Territory and probably no one would make the journey in the old and unseaworthy boats.

                              Will they come instead through the Torres St to Qld? Like Christmas Island the Torres St Islands have been excised from the Australian migration zone.

                              The smuggler economic model is less likely to be successful in the straits. The people in the Strait are Queenslanders and less likely to assist asylum seekers.

                              The old Indonesian fishing boats of the size that takes 100 passengers are not readily available. The islanders use tinnies.

                              The few asylum seekers that have tried to come via that route have been easily caught and sent to Manus.

                              So lets break the route! Christmas Is becomes Indonesian and the smugglers have not direct route to Australia.

                              Commenter
                              TiredOfSpin
                              Date and time
                              August 21, 2013, 12:48PM
                              • Change over to mutton.

                                Lamb is making you too verbose.

                                Commenter
                                J. Fraser
                                Location
                                Queensland
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:08PM
                              • Have you considered the economics of this for Indonesia? I suggest based on this alone Indonesia would decline to take possession of an island devoid of nothing but people from other countries.

                                Commenter
                                Pen of hrba
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:26PM
                              • vote for Pauline Hanson and they will hear you.

                                Commenter
                                half
                                Location
                                Sydney
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:39PM
                              • Well, if Indonesia does not want it , it can become stateless.

                                It could be purchased by a billionaire as a private hideaway. (He can share it with the red crabs).

                                Just as long as Christmas Island is no longer part of Australia and people who reach there expect to be cared for by Australia..

                                Actually I think that no one will want to stay there once the Australian money stops flowing. It s quite a desolate place.

                                Commenter
                                TiredOfSpin
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:51PM
                              • J.Frazer - what do you expect of a trained academic?

                                It's publish or perish!!!!

                                And scientists don't have a sense of humour either!

                                Commenter
                                TiredOfSpin
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:53PM
                              • Correct me if I am wrong but wasnt Christmas Island once under the control of Singapore ? Maybe someone like an expert on all things that matter say hmmm let me think about this, yes like J Fraser could answer it !

                                Commenter
                                ultra
                                Location
                                Mel
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 2:20PM
                            • Kevin Rudd has so much faith in himself that if a time machine existed and he was offered the chance to replace the captain of the Titanic after it hit the iceberg, he would likely accept, believing the ship could not possibly sink if he was the master in charge. This explains why KR accepted the offer to lead his Party, despite evidence pointing to a well deserved defeat looming on the horizon. This delusional attitude will cost the ALP dearly on 7/9/13, but as the saying goes: "you reap what you sow".

                              Commenter
                              Billnix
                              Location
                              Western Sydney
                              Date and time
                              August 21, 2013, 12:49PM
                              • Who needs a time machine for the Titanic - Clive Palmer has one he'll lend (for a fee.)

                                Commenter
                                Tom
                                Location
                                Canberra
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:06PM
                              • Tom, Clive is going to drop the Titanic on his ex mates tomm in his press release read IA for some background briefing.

                                Commenter
                                A country gal
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 5:59PM
                            • If the polls are to be believed and Labor are heading for a thrashing, Electors of Griffith can expect to go back for a BY Election within months when Kevvie resigns because Labor will not want him to lead them as the opposition. Someone should ask him straight out, will you remain in opposition for 3 years if your party loses the election or will you resign?

                              Commenter
                              Lyle Marshall
                              Location
                              Castle Hill
                              Date and time
                              August 21, 2013, 12:57PM
                              • He won't resign. He will just sit in the back row, smirking and undermining. That is the nature of his character.

                                Commenter
                                Sarah of Carnegie
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:00PM
                              • Pointless. He'd only reply "I don't intend to loose."

                                Commenter
                                Lewis
                                Location
                                Sydney
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:04PM
                              • And vice versa for Abbott.

                                Commenter
                                J. Fraser
                                Location
                                Queensland
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:10PM
                              • Actually J Fraser - no. I don't think Abbott is that vindictive to deliberately undermine his own party and leader.

                                Commenter
                                Sarah of Carnegie
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:16PM
                              • And yet another dose of assumption with a dollop of speculation, which once again proves the sheep in fold are ready for shearing.

                                Commenter
                                Pen of hrba
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:17PM
                            • So Australians think its OK to pay a woman $75,000 to have a baby.

                              Commenter
                              J. Fraser
                              Location
                              Queensland
                              Date and time
                              August 21, 2013, 12:59PM
                              • J Fraser
                                No one is proposing 'paying a woman $75K to have a baby'
                                It is hard to get your head around but this will be a work place entitlement including super.
                                Your attitude is like those who opposed women getting the vote - back then some just couldn't get their heads around a different world view. Try harder.

                                Commenter
                                yys
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:07PM
                              • Not every woman, just those who earn $150,000 or more a year.

                                Commenter
                                Whyalla Wipeout
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:11PM
                              • No unfortuantely they are not willing. Women have to take a pay cut to go on baby leave. But we all get a 17% pay rise to go on annual leave. Not asking for MORE money to go on baby leave... just the same as a normal pay week. No pay cuts for babies!

                                Commenter
                                Cwitty
                                Location
                                Sydney
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:11PM
                              • Yys
                                Abbott's ppl is just a strategy to divide the female vote.
                                His party, his benefactor (Murdoch) and businesses have all made it clear that it isn't happening.
                                If the ppl was important, he would be saying it is the first thing his government would do. Just like the carbon tax or the mining tax.
                                It isn't even costed. Hockey doesn't care about it. It isn't going to happen.

                                Commenter
                                Steve
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:24PM
                              • Whyalla,

                                Get your facts straight. Pretty sure I read something above where you told someone about making up facts.

                                Women on more than $150k pa are not eligible.

                                Commenter
                                beasleyst
                                Location
                                Sydney
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:27PM
                              • Steve
                                How could Abbott legislate for the PPL immediately? Labor have left the cupboard bare.

                                Commenter
                                yys
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:35PM
                              • After the election the winner will decide how to run the country and the circumstances how to run.
                                GOT THE MESSAGE.

                                Commenter
                                half
                                Location
                                Sydney
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:37PM
                              • And that Fraser is called presumption.

                                Commenter
                                Pen of hrba
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:39PM
                              • Yys
                                If the cupboard is truly bare, why is he cutting the carbon tax and the mining tax?

                                Commenter
                                Steve
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 2:01PM
                              • Beasleyst
                                Get your facts straight.
                                Women on more than 150k are still eligible for 75k.

                                Commenter
                                Steve
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 2:03PM
                              • Sorry Steve, I stand corrected.
                                I just read the policy on the LNP website and you are right.

                                Commenter
                                beasleyst
                                Location
                                Sydney
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 2:55PM
                              • "Get your facts straight"

                                beasleyst, there is a Yiddish work to describe when a Liberal luvvie tells anyone to get their facts straight - chutzpah.

                                As it turns out, the fact that you told me to get straight wasn't straight anyway.

                                Commenter
                                Whyalla Wipeout
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 3:11PM
                              • Steve
                                Because unlike Labor, the Coalition have principles and stick to them.
                                The Coalition are against the shonky carbon tax, ( even Rudd is against it - having supposedly eradicated it in June)

                                Commenter
                                yys
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 3:31PM
                              • yys, the only principle the Liberals have ever stuck to in my whole life is the principle that they are the rightful government of Australia - and if the voters got it wrong there needs to be another election.
                                Only in the last 3 years, Abbott has taken this fundamental Liberal principle to its absurd extreme. Demanding a new election every day but never, ever having the guts to call a vote of no confidence in the Parliament.

                                Commenter
                                whyalla Wipeout
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 4:10PM
                            • The short sightedness of the Australian car industry parallels the Coalition and Labor’s decision to cease funding an Australian green energy fuelled vehicle.

                              Meanwhile during May this year the U.S. Energy Department launched H2USA: a public-and private sector partnership focused on advancing hydrogen infrastructure to support more fuel cell electric vehicle (FCEVs) transportation.

                              Already US R &D has aided reduced fuel cell costs by more than 35% since 2008 and more than 80% since 2002. Fuel cell durability has doubled and the amount of platinum needed in fuel cells has fallen by 80% since 2005.

                              In March Hyundai produced South Korea’s first hydrogen-powered car for mass production. Hyundai plans to start consumer production by 2015 with 1,000 fuel cells vehicles ready for public use. The cars will go mainly to Europe, where the European Union has started building hydrogen fuel stations.

                              However, Hyundai plans to produce 10000 fuel-cell cars per year in the US after 2015. Toyota and Honda have said they will release their fuel-cell cars in the US also in 2015. The Chevrolet Equinox Fuel Cell test vehicle has been road tested since 2008.

                              In addition GM and Honda share research facilities in Michigan and in Japan to deliver fuel cell vehicles. Ford has joined with Daimler and Renault-Nissan to speed up development of their fuel cell hydrogen models.

                              California is facilitating about 120 hydrogen fuel filling stations with many in advanced state of coming on line.

                              A University of Colorado Boulder team has developed a solar-thermal water-splitting (STWS) system for the efficient production of hydrogen cutting cost of hydrogen production by 37%.

                              There's an increasing movement away from carbon based fuelled cars, within 20 years the Australian car manufacturing will be rendered obsolete and replaced by foreign technology predominately based on hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. Duh?

                              Commenter
                              Pen of hrba
                              Date and time
                              August 21, 2013, 1:03PM
                              • @"Pen"

                                Good night.

                                Fare thee well.

                                Commenter
                                J. Fraser
                                Location
                                Queensland
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:07PM
                              • Fraser

                                Exercising your inabilities and limitation to debate again, heh Fraser.

                                Commenter
                                Pen of hrba
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:29PM
                              • J.Frazer why haven't you offered Pen a side of mutton? I think he needs it more than I do. He, at least, unlike me, can type accurately!

                                Commenter
                                TiredOfSpin
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:45PM
                            • Why would Abbott want to go on Q&A and be trampled over by a room full of socialists?
                              More importantly, why is everyone so pre-occupied with Abbotts costings? For six years we have had lies, deceit and irresponsible Govt with three different leaders, stupid border protection and carbon policy and a budget deficit that is growing by the day.
                              One day, the borrowings stop because there is no money left. We are in this position b/c of the current Govt. That should be more concerning to all Australians along with their jobs which let's face aint exactly safe in most cases and it ain't Abbotts doing. Going on Q&A a Labour infested place is irrelevant to the bigger picture.

                              Commenter
                              PMI
                              Location
                              Hampton
                              Date and time
                              August 21, 2013, 1:04PM
                              • Actually the makeup of the audience of Q&A are:
                                45% Liberal, 35% Labor, 10% Green, 10% Undecided.

                                So no, not full of socialists.

                                Tony Abbott's fear would probably be that he might lose people in the 45% Liberal group and undecided group, who might decide that because he is useless at answering questions that require more than a single sentence, he's not worth voting for.

                                Or he might accidentally let slip about one of his more secretive policies, like Hockey did when he effectively said that the Liberals were going to cut funding from the ABC.

                                Commenter
                                Tone
                                Location
                                Melbourne
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:13PM
                              • You neocons really do see conspiracy every time one of yours is asked a question. If it's such a nest of "socialists", why are people like Pyne, Turnbull, Brandis, Joyce, Mirabella, Abetz and the rest almost regular panelists? And then you have the objective media guests like Albrechtson and Cater - and you can throw in Richo for good measure (he's more one of yours than Labor). I suspect you wouldn't be happy unless there were 6 people from the LNP front bench every week.

                                Commenter
                                BC
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:16PM
                              • PM I
                                absolutely right.
                                Why on earth would Abbott want to be answerable to the people. He only needs to keep one person happy. Murdoch.
                                Why bother with anyone else. Particularly anyone with intelligence.

                                Commenter
                                Steve
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:18PM
                              • PMI, classic Liberal. If the real facts don't suit, make up your own.

                                And in classic Liberal Party efficiency, don't waste time checking out facts. You already know what you know, so just share with the rest of us ignoramuses who actually do check out the facts.

                                Commenter
                                Whyalla Wipeout
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:19PM
                              • Tone,

                                When you can't find facts to back up your rubbish, you just make them up!

                                Hockey did not say he was going to cut funding to the ABC. He said he would reduce "wasted spending" if there was some.

                                There is a difference. One is income for the ABC and the other is expenditure by the ABC. Hard for you to grasp....

                                Commenter
                                beasleyst
                                Location
                                Sydney
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:22PM
                              • PMI,

                                How outrageous!

                                Expecting Tony Abbott to openly campaign on policies, and give permission to the PBO to release all 200 policy costings 15 days out from 5 Sep 2013 so his policies can be properly scrutinised.

                                It's not like we're asking Tony Abbott to give up his firstborn.

                                The last time the Coalition completely failed to campaign on a policy and had a Senate majority was 2004, and that's how we ended up with Workchoices in 2005, not to mention uncapped, semi-skilled 457 visas, which the Coalition also implemented despite completely failing to campaign on in 1996.

                                Commenter
                                Tristan
                                Location
                                Melbourne
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:31PM
                              • @Tone: "Lose" them to who? Rudd? LOL.

                                Commenter
                                brian
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:32PM
                              • beastlyst - yes he did say he will reduce waste. It's actually the political codeword for cut. I will put money on it that the Liberals will cut the ABC budget and it will have very little to do with actual waste.

                                Commenter
                                Tone
                                Location
                                Melbourne
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:36PM
                              • @Tristan - when did Labor release its costings in '07 and '10? Be honest now.

                                Commenter
                                brian
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:37PM
                              • So Rudd should go onto the openly hostile Murdoch network, but why should Abbott have to face someone who is not there to spruik for the Coalition! The horror!

                                Commenter
                                Arky
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:40PM
                              • Gosh are there that many Socialists in Australia.

                                I've been in plenty of rooms and have trouble finding one Socialist let alone a roomful of them.

                                Commenter
                                J. Fraser
                                Location
                                Queensland
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:40PM
                              • Beasleyst
                                Good use of semantics!
                                Perhaps you can tell us the difference between cutting their funding and cutting their expenditure. They both have the same end result. And it all depends on Joe's personal definition of waste.

                                Commenter
                                Steve
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:47PM
                              • Tone, I prefer one INTELLIGENT sentence over 20 non-sensical sentences ....

                                Commenter
                                ET
                                Location
                                Lakesland
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:53PM
                              • Brian,

                                According to the neocons, in 2007 the ALP apparently released their costings 1 day before the election.

                                So that begs the question. how late were the Coalition in lodging their cositngs in 2007?

                                I do know that during the 2010 election Abbott and Hockey failed to provide their costings to the 3 independents AFTER the election.

                                And I do know that in 2013, Abbott will once again fail to abide by the Coaliton's own Charter of Budget Honesty because Abbott claimed at his Corio press conference the other day that all of his PBO costings would be available for POST ELECTION scrutiny, meaning the lying rodent is withholding 100% of his 200 policy costings from the electorate and disallowing any PRE-ELECTION scrutiny.

                                Commenter
                                Tristan
                                Location
                                Melbourne
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:59PM
                              • @Tristan - is Tony Jones a neocon? Even he pinged Bowen on the timing of Labor's '07 and '10 costings.

                                Commenter
                                brian
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 2:19PM
                              • PMI,

                                It would be interesting to know how much all these "changes" have cost the Australian taxpayer.
                                Stationery
                                Signage
                                Office Furniture / fit outs
                                new staff
                                Re-briefings
                                etc.

                                Commenter
                                beasleyst
                                Location
                                Sydney
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 2:35PM
                              • ET, none of Tony Abbott's comments is intelligent. Oh, Liberal Party voters probably think they're witty, but they're not, they're just superficial rubbish coming from a Hollowman.

                                Commenter
                                Tone
                                Location
                                Melbourne
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 3:07PM
                            • Kevin from Queensland is starting to look very rattled. An individual's personal popularity does not a government make.

                              I am proud to see that an increasing majority of Australians are combining to vote the ALP out of office. In my opinion it is the swingers who are voting out the ALP, rather than necessarily voting the coalition in. My pride in Australia is that it has a decisive majority who can and will say "enough is enough".

                              Commenter
                              Halfback
                              Location
                              Sydney
                              Date and time
                              August 21, 2013, 1:15PM
                                • You mean an increasing minority.

                                  Neither Liberal nor Labor get more than 30% of the vote each.

                                  They only get in because of preferences.

                                  Commenter
                                  Tom
                                  Location
                                  Canberra
                                  Date and time
                                  August 21, 2013, 1:26PM
                                • @"Halfback" .... "An individual's personal popularity does not a government make ..."

                                  Gee that doesn't look good for Abbott then.

                                  And with self funded retirees looking at having their franking credits double taxed so that woman can be paid $75,000 to have a baby .... things are definitely bad for Abbott.

                                  I might have to revise my winning seat numbers for Rudd .... up !

                                  Commenter
                                  J. Fraser
                                  Location
                                  Queensland
                                  Date and time
                                  August 21, 2013, 1:39PM
                                • I'm disappointed that there are dolts out there willing to vote for Tony Abbott when he has withheld 100% of his 200 policy costings lodged with the Parliamentary Budget Office with only 16 days left to go before the election.

                                  I guess you really can fool some people all of the time.

                                  Commenter
                                  Tristan
                                  Location
                                  Melbourne
                                  Date and time
                                  August 21, 2013, 1:52PM
                                • Tristan,

                                  I'm tipping you weren't old enough to vote at the last federal election, or the one before that, because if you were, you either voted LNP or you were a "dolt".

                                  Commenter
                                  beasleyst
                                  Location
                                  Sydney
                                  Date and time
                                  August 21, 2013, 2:25PM
                                • Steve,

                                  I'm not sure you understand the difference between income and expenditure.

                                  There is massive waste in the public service and most of it is driven by one simple principle, which I believe needs to change. Departments that don't spend their "budget" get their following year's budget reduced. So the majority of government departments spend up big, especially between March & June, to make sure they will get the same allocation for the following year.
                                  Go to Canberra and see how many office fit outs, new furniture purchases, new department logo's, stationery, signage etc. happens in those months.

                                  Commenter
                                  beasleyst
                                  Location
                                  Sydney
                                  Date and time
                                  August 21, 2013, 2:31PM
                              • It's interesting that Kev's agreed to conduct the debate exclusively for Sky News - part-owned by Rupert. You'd think he'd be after a free-to-air channel for broader exposure (ABC24 is also covering it).

                                By the way has he got his notes prepared ?

                                Commenter
                                Hacka
                                Location
                                Canberra
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:17PM
                                • Channel 7(Gem or Mate) is covering it too.

                                  So much for it only being for Pay-TV subscribers like the conspiracy theorists would have you believe.

                                  Commenter
                                  beasleyst
                                  Location
                                  Sydney
                                  Date and time
                                  August 21, 2013, 1:24PM
                                • It's going out on feed to all free to air networks(if they want it)

                                  Commenter
                                  Tim of Altona
                                  Date and time
                                  August 21, 2013, 1:28PM
                                • Likely to be more watching it on 24.

                                  More disappointment for Murdoch.... to go along with falling sales of his papers.

                                  Commenter
                                  J. Fraser
                                  Location
                                  Queensland
                                  Date and time
                                  August 21, 2013, 1:29PM
                                • "Channel 7(Gem or Mate) is covering it too.

                                  So much for it only being for Pay-TV subscribers like the conspiracy theorists would have you believe."

                                  Beasleyst,

                                  How convenient.

                                  So those who aren't pay tv subscribers and don't have digital tvs can't watch the debate.

                                  If that wimp Tony Abbott hadn't chickened out, we'd have a head to head debate between Abbott and Rudd moderated by Leigh Sales on 7.30 in prime time.

                                  We'd also have a full transcript of the interview and video footage of the interview online, things that Sky News, Gem and 7Mate don't provide.

                                  Commenter
                                  Tristan
                                  Location
                                  Melbourne
                                  Date and time
                                  August 21, 2013, 1:42PM
                                • Tristan if you don't have a digital TV you won't be able to watch it anyway - analog has been switched off.

                                  Which means you'd probably be a cave-dwelling Greens voter anyway so the debate would offer you not very much.

                                  Commenter
                                  Hacka
                                  Location
                                  Canberra
                                  Date and time
                                  August 21, 2013, 1:53PM
                                • J Fraser
                                  Don't worry. Murdoch will be fine after the election when people discover Australia's internet won't handle iptv and they all have to subscribe to foxtel to get sport

                                  Commenter
                                  Steve
                                  Date and time
                                  August 21, 2013, 1:58PM
                                • @"Hacka"

                                  Are you sure that analogue tv has been switched across Australia ?

                                  Commenter
                                  J. Fraser
                                  Location
                                  Queensland
                                  Date and time
                                  August 21, 2013, 2:13PM
                                • Tristan, it’s only an election mate, it’s not the end of the world, loosing builds character but making false and misleading claims shows poor character, surely your aware that most of the diatribe you are putting out now is not going to have any bearing on the outcome but does have a bearing on how you come across in this forum, sure you mean well and loyalty is one thing but making false claims is just plain wrong and most people see through it.

                                  Commenter
                                  Peter G
                                  Location
                                  Drummoyne
                                  Date and time
                                  August 21, 2013, 2:19PM
                                • Tristan,

                                  You try so hard to act like an adult don't you!

                                  Don't you remember the ALP government gave all pensioners free digital set-top boxes recently. Their boxes were extra special and only 4 times the price that people could have bought them for themselves.

                                  Commenter
                                  dRod
                                  Location
                                  Sydney
                                  Date and time
                                  August 21, 2013, 2:22PM
                                • Cave dwelling Green?

                                  Hacka,

                                  Tony Abbott's the knuckle dragging Luddite and Neanderthal determined to hold Australia back with his inferior fraudband network, serviced by a Chinese company that was given a negative ASIO assessment and prevented from implementing the NBN due to cybersecurity and cyberspying concerns.

                                  Forgotten Abbott's 7.30 Report performance where he repeatedly apologised to Kerry O'Brien for his lack of technical knowledge about his own fraudband network and how it worked have we?

                                  How convenient.

                                  Commenter
                                  Tristan
                                  Location
                                  Melbourne
                                  Date and time
                                  August 21, 2013, 2:23PM
                                • Hey Tristan - speaking of technophobes did you watch Albo debating Turnbull re the NBN two Monday's ago ? That was funny.

                                  Fraser - there's been plenty of government TV advertising telling us that analog is switched off. If there's places still switched on does that mean that the advertising was telling us porkies ?

                                  Or is Queensland lagging a few years behind the rest of the country ?

                                  Commenter
                                  Hacka
                                  Location
                                  Canberra
                                  Date and time
                                  August 21, 2013, 2:51PM
                              • I put this question to #askBolt but unsurprisingly he's been too busy reading the tweets to get back.

                                If Tony is the 'conviction politician' will Rupert be the 'convicted media baron'?

                                Commenter
                                Franklin
                                Location
                                BrisVegas
                                Date and time
                                August 21, 2013, 1:25PM
                                • NEWSFLASH - Rudd's notes for tonight's debate have been leaked -

                                  cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut.cut,cut,cut,cut,cut, cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut, cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut, cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut, cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut, cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut,cut

                                  Commenter
                                  Tim of Altona
                                  Date and time
                                  August 21, 2013, 1:25PM
                                  • Yes, the Liberal Party have to make lots of cuts to pay for their PolitiFact $50 billion dollar black hole, don't they?

                                    But we all know it'll be too hard once they're i and the GST will be back on the table.

                                    Commenter
                                    Tone
                                    Location
                                    Melbourne
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 1:32PM
                                  • Stop it,

                                    Poor old Smokin Mo will be plastered!

                                    Commenter
                                    beasleyst
                                    Location
                                    Sydney
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 1:32PM
                                  • No media bothered to release Abbott response.

                                    Urrrrrgh and arrrrrrrrrrgh.

                                    For fear it might damage Abbott's standing in primary schools

                                    Commenter
                                    J. Fraser
                                    Location
                                    Queensland
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 1:33PM
                                  • Cut, cut, cut.

                                    That's Abbott's plan to return to surplus - outsourcing government jobs to the private sector ("contestability"), offshoring tech jobs, hiding the long term unemployed in tree planting and time serving, vocationally irrelevant work for the dole programs, mass privatisation of public assets including Medibank Private (Commission of Audit), slashing penalty rates, removing unfair dismissal protection, creating a new body to overrule Fair Work Australia decisions and reintroducing non-union, statutory individual contracts.

                                    Commenter
                                    Tristan
                                    Location
                                    Melbourne
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 1:38PM
                                  • Tim - Think you forgot GST Increase, GST Increase, GST Increase, GST Increase, GST Increase............right up there amongst other ALP fables, of course. You never know - If MPC gets even more desperate we might hear about Work-Choices and maybe even baby-eating too!! Betcha we won't hear about any "great moral challenges of our time" though...

                                    Commenter
                                    Smack
                                    Location
                                    City of the Fallen
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 1:39PM
                                  • Really Tristan, really. The 7th cannot come fast enough.

                                    Commenter
                                    jojar
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 1:41PM
                                  • That's the main policy of the two main political parties that no one wants to mention Remember after the election you are IRRELEVANT AND DEMOCRACY TOO.

                                    Commenter
                                    half
                                    Location
                                    Sydney
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 1:44PM
                                  • Page 2 - abbott abbott abbott

                                    Commenter
                                    Gem
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 1:48PM
                                  • Cut, cut, cut....

                                    Yes, Abbott is going to have to cut deeply to fill the $4b to $15 billion blackhole in his direct action on climate change plan exposed by research conducted by Monash University and Sinclair Knight Merz.

                                    "Coalition defends climate change policy over claims of cost blow-out"
                                    (ABC radio World Today transcript 15 Aug 2013)

                                    "ELEANOR HALL: To politics in Australia now, and the Federal Coalition has rejected an analysis of its direct action plan for climate change, which suggests the Coalition will have to find as much as $15 billion extra to meet its commitment to cut carbon emissions by 2020.

                                    SABRA LANE: It says you'll have to spend between $4 and $15 billion to meet that target by 2020 and that's additional than what you're budgeting for now."

                                    www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2013/s3826247.htm

                                    Commenter
                                    Tristan
                                    Location
                                    Melbourne
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 1:48PM
                                  • Smack
                                    It is very simple. If GST is not on the agenda, then why not take it off the table?
                                    Joe couldn't answer that simple question. That is why most people think he is lying.

                                    Commenter
                                    Steve
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 1:55PM
                                  • Page 3 "new way new way new way" Time for a nerve pill.......

                                    Commenter
                                    BB
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 1:57PM
                                  • Tim

                                    Many a true word spoken in jest

                                    BTW how will the PPL scheme be fully funded...think your words (post) may come back to bite you on the you know where !

                                    Commenter
                                    Buffalo Bill
                                    Location
                                    Sydneys Northshore
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 2:08PM
                                  • The issue is, despite the fact they cut services they never actually lower Government spending, all the savings leak out to their mates and pet projects. The surpluses actually come from higher tax as percentage of GDP.

                                    Commenter
                                    tasch2
                                    Location
                                    Mornington Peninsula
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 2:11PM
                                  • Smack,

                                    Workchoices by name only wont be back though the nasty elements will be ,,,you have to look no further that the proposed restablishment of the KGB...sorry I mean the ABCC

                                    The GST will not be increased or broadened in this term (if the LNP gain power) the LNP will just introduce a bill come 2016 into parliament to legislate that it will be a Commonwealth responsibility when and by how much and what it applies to.

                                    Commenter
                                    Buffalo Bill
                                    Location
                                    Sydneys Northshore
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 2:17PM
                                  • Steve - By the simple fact that Tones has said that if the GST is going to be required to go up then he will take it as a proposition to the next election should he win this one - simple really - ... to those who listen eh?

                                    Commenter
                                    Smack
                                    Location
                                    City of the Fallen
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 2:18PM
                                  • Thanks beaseleyst,

                                    You are right. I am starting to have second thoughts. Not keen for a liver transplant and it is a school night.

                                    No. I cnnot be a hypocrite. I made a promise so I must keep that promise. There will be no sober person in the drinking games I llead!!

                                    Commenter
                                    Smokin Mo
                                    Location
                                    Ryde
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 2:30PM
                                  • Buff - Re the GST - and you know this how? Psst - Once you tell me how then you still haven't told me who'll win Race 7 at Dapto this weekend either!!

                                    Commenter
                                    Smack
                                    Location
                                    City of the Fallen
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 2:34PM
                                  • Smack, so Tony Abbott IS intending to increase the never, ever, GST, but at the next election. So he's intending to walk on egg shells until the next election and then let fly with a whole lot of regressive policies. I wonder how the new look never again Work Choices is looking?

                                    Commenter
                                    Tone
                                    Location
                                    Melbourne
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 2:46PM
                                  • Smack....

                                    See if im incorrect about the GST.!

                                    .....BTW my tip for race 7 Dapto?...City of the Fallen...it shows great promises but hasnt delivered just yet.,it will at some stage I feel..you know sorta like the LNP costings... promise delivery but not yet delivered

                                    Commenter
                                    Buffalo Bill
                                    Location
                                    Sydneys Northshore
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 2:53PM
                                  • Tone - Really hard to get the meat of your nonsensical reply but I'll try. Should Abbott feel it necessary to increase the GST should he get in this time then it will be put to the people in the following election for every voter to decide - can't get more upfront that that - esp. when you contrast that to "there will be no carbon tax.." by some ALP woman all the luvvies have seemingly now forgotten. Ahh Work-Choices - the catch phrase cherished by every luvvie when there's nothing else to desperately grasp at. Even Buff thinks ABCC = Work-Choices dearie me - is this pandemic getting about again - surely there's a vaccination - perhaps an election will cure it!!

                                    Commenter
                                    Smack
                                    Location
                                    City of the Fallen
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 3:06PM
                                  • Page 4 - Jasper and Abby and the Great Australia Day Kerfuffle fall-back plan - Once upon a time threre was a fearless Kokoda survivor who was often outside the wire in Iraq protecting Australia's freedom. His name name happened to be Kevin. He cut himself shaving sometimes whch is very funny and everyone should see a picture of it . He had a cat named Jasper.....

                                    Commenter
                                    Fruitcakes and Watermelons
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 3:06PM
                                  • Smack

                                    It is very clear that the City of the Fallen does not have any communications or your blinkers have fallen over your eyes? so let me educate you a little the ABCC was an element of Workchoices it was designed by TA as a result of the Cole Royal Commission and implemented as a raft of measures under the umbrella of "Workchoices." which according to Nick Minchin did not go far enough........

                                    So no pandemic here ! Oh BTW how will Joes PPL be fully funded?...... just asking

                                    Commenter
                                    Buffalo Bill
                                    Location
                                    Sydneys Northshore
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 3:22PM
                                  • The Liberal Party have a pattern of introducing regressive policies, policies that are good for the rich and bad for the middle class and poor, who pay more.

                                    GST - regressive policy introduced by the Liberals.

                                    WorkChoices - regressive policy introduced by the Liberals.

                                    If they win at the election, why would we not expect more of the same? It might not be GST. It might not be WorkChoices v2. But they will be tweaking laws to make more of us the losers and the rich will be the winners. They have a pattern.

                                    Commenter
                                    Tone
                                    Location
                                    Melbourne
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 3:26PM
                                  • Well Buff - I've already taken a bet with jofek over the GST to allay his fears so we'll just have to see - won't we over Abbott's promises - I mean we've all unfortunately had a taste of Jool's & MPC's promises now haven't we these last few years much to our detriment. Hmm Dapto - I've always liked Swamp Lizard - loves a wet track!! Although I guess ALP Policy Costings might just suddenly appear at the post because that particular dog has previous form in doing that.

                                    Commenter
                                    Smack
                                    Location
                                    City of the Fallen
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 3:26PM
                                  • So Buff - The Cole Royal Commission was wrong too?

                                    Commenter
                                    Smack
                                    Location
                                    City of the Fallen
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 3:34PM
                                  • These Libs really do work themselves up into a frenzy whenever someone says GST or WorkChoices.

                                    Commenter
                                    Tone
                                    Location
                                    Melbourne
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 4:00PM
                                  • Well yes Tones - I guess my tolerance to lap up MPC's mouthing's as mother's milk is decidedly less than yours. No - don't turn your head towards me - keep your gaze firmly affixed on your Labor God - I feel another Great Moral Challenge of our Times speech coming on and I wouldn't want you to miss it.

                                    Commenter
                                    Smack
                                    Location
                                    City of the Fallen
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 4:18PM
                                  • "cut, cut, cut" - Kevin Rudd really made the coughing sounds healthy.

                                    Commenter
                                    Dscoresby
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 4:31PM
                                  • Smack, can't say my fears have been allayed but I do appreciate your generosity.

                                    And I have up to 3 years to anticipate the moment he sidles up to the mikes and stammers his way through his excuses - 'unfortunately this is the reality we are faced with that was left behind by Labor...' etc. I feel pretty confident I must say; have you been saving?

                                    Commenter
                                    jofek
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 5:01PM
                                • Why isn't Q&A a forum for the election with Rudd, Abbott, and Milne in centre stage?

                                  What would happen to the lies?

                                  Stupid.

                                  Commenter
                                  Pen of hrba
                                  Date and time
                                  August 21, 2013, 1:35PM
                                  • Milne is irrelevant to this election

                                    Commenter
                                    jojar
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 1:50PM
                                • Photo 11:21am.

                                  I think Kev's support pillow must have something sharp in it... He keeps screeching "cut cut cut".

                                  Commenter
                                  notlad
                                  Location
                                  Sydney
                                  Date and time
                                  August 21, 2013, 1:35PM
                                  • Tony Abbott certainly needs to clean out his Front Bench. Tired old Howard hacks are taking up space that younger and more vibrant LNPs should be occupying. He needs new blood for his New Wave. There are a lot of good brains standing for the LNP. They will have an enormous job ahead of them clawing this country back onto its feet after Labor's disastrous and wasteful years. The midnight oil will have to be burned and fresh brains are needed. Take the Howard card out of your hand Tony and throw it away. It has been overplayed. The Rudd circus is for Ruddites many of whom appear to suffer from a Cargo Cult mentality, wanting to be given everything. Labor's hate campaigns begun by Gillard are still flourishing - particularly among female journalists.. Whatever the major parties chose to put before the voters in the end the actual size of the Ballot Pare will defeat a lot of people at the polling booth. But the real question emerging is not will the pollies last but will the public last out until September 7?

                                    Commenter
                                    blair
                                    Location
                                    bulleen
                                    Date and time
                                    August 21, 2013, 1:44PM
                                    • So we have:
                                      •a $50 million manufacturing fund to help communities and industries move into new areas; and

                                      Addition 1/10 given to a local rugby league club that runs profits in the millions...priorities?

                                      Commenter
                                      Jitterry
                                      Date and time
                                      August 21, 2013, 1:45PM
                                      • Photo at 11:43. I think Rudd is doing an Abbott and going the pash!

                                        Commenter
                                        Tone
                                        Location
                                        Melbourne
                                        Date and time
                                        August 21, 2013, 1:46PM
                                        • Least it's not a back of the head hair kiss.
                                          There is a lot of kissing going on though.
                                          Perhaps they could kiss and make up and stop the presidential nonsense and start talking some real policies that will benefit the nation. Rudd needs to give JG some credit for her reforms. Abbott could always apologise for his IPA austerity measures to be implemented.
                                          So, rather than a handshake tonight how about a big smooch. I might watch it, just for that.

                                          Commenter
                                          A country gal
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:19PM
                                        • Hahaha, point taken Country Girl. Abbott has to creep up behind and steal a kiss. At least Rudd's pash is front on. Gross, as all politicians are, but front on, all the same.

                                          Commenter
                                          Tone
                                          Location
                                          Melbourne
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:59PM
                                      • Will father Abbott stand up before tonights audience with hand on heart and bible that his PPL policy is fully costed...HE BETTER CONSULT FACT CHECKER FIRST!!...WHAT A FRAUD!!

                                        Commenter
                                        Archer
                                        Date and time
                                        August 21, 2013, 1:47PM
                                        • Did you read the fact checker piece or just the headline. I remind you of the conclusion:
                                          "Had the Coalition released the parliamentary budget office advice it says supports its account, PolitiFact would have rated Hockey's claim about funding "true". But until it sees it, it has to rate the claim "half true"."

                                          Given that this will be released before the election do you think the Libs will have opened themselves up to a proven outright lie? Time will prove that their assertation is true and your hysteria is misplaced.

                                          Commenter
                                          dcs
                                          Location
                                          Brisbane
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 3:08PM
                                      • Abbott has various policies that Rudd adopts as frequently as he eats his pizza. Northern Australian, Asylum and Carbon policies to name a few. He could go on Q&A and sell a few more while Rudd sits at home chomping away saying I'll take that one and that one...
                                        What I don't get is how Labor ask us to trust them when we have seen 70 frontbenchers in six years. Three reshuffles in 2013 alone.
                                        They have had five assistant treasurers in six years and two Treasurers. Six small business ministers, four immigration ministers, six ministers for housing, six ministers for Centrelink, four trade ministers.
                                        They've had nine different education ministers in six years. They have had four higher education ministers in four months. They have had three prime ministers in six years. This is ridiculous, that is not the normal way the country is run.
                                        Then they say they are the best party to Govern our nation. Can someone tell me how??

                                        Commenter
                                        PMI
                                        Location
                                        Hampton
                                        Date and time
                                        August 21, 2013, 1:48PM
                                        • @"PMI"

                                          I thought the price of pizza was beyond the reach of families ?

                                          Are you now saying that the Australian economy is in good shape.

                                          And families can afford pizza.

                                          Commenter
                                          J. Fraser
                                          Location
                                          Queensland
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:03PM
                                        • And the Liberal Party stole Labor's NDIS.

                                          Hockey even claimed on Q&A that the Liberals were responsible for Medicare, a system the Liberals have been trying to dismantle for 30 years!

                                          Commenter
                                          Tone
                                          Location
                                          Melbourne
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:04PM
                                        • "Abbott has various policies that Rudd adopts as frequently as he eats his pizza. Northern Australian, Asylum and Carbon policies to name a few."

                                          What?

                                          PMI, do concentrate and try to keep up.

                                          I'll give you Northern Australia.

                                          But Abbott copied Rudd on PNG, and Abbott's direct action plan which costs $62 per tonne, $720 p.a for the average household, which has a budget blackhole of $4b to $15 billion, and has been rubbished by his own party as a "con", an "environmental figleaf" to "disguise a determination to do nothing" (Malcolm Turnbull's words), is nothing like the ALP's carbon tax or transfer to an emissions trading scheme.

                                          Commenter
                                          Tristan
                                          Location
                                          Melbourne
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:05PM
                                      • "Ross Gittins ponders a question that has occurred to many of us during this campaign - not who will win but why campaigns have become so vacuous"

                                        Because of the way the media reports them to the people, of course.

                                        Things are either reported straight from the press release with no attempt at critical analysis, or they are "analysed" by partisans uninterested in the truth. For every Ross Gittins or Tim Colebatch, they are drowned out by 20 Andrew Bolts, Paul Sheehans, Nicole Flints or anyone from the Institute for Public Affairs (and former politicians and political hacks like Vanstone, Latham and McTiernan).

                                        Drives me batty when the media bemoans the state of politics or the campaigns without turning the blowtorch on itself. If the media honestly analyzed policies and claims and election promises, things would be a lot better. Instead what little honest analysis is done of both sides gets buried under partisan "narratives".

                                        Commenter
                                        Arky
                                        Date and time
                                        August 21, 2013, 1:49PM
                                        • Exactly - If the media simply siad we aren't going to cover either parties set piece for the day until you submit your policies for costing then the ploicies would be submitted pretty quick.

                                          If the media stopped usnig the sound bite of the day and showed the politician using the soound bite to ansiwer a different question or just didn't run presser at all then things would change.

                                          Commenter
                                          Macca75
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:23PM
                                        • Not to mention what's posted on this & other sites like it. It's not just the media who likes it that way. Many of us here do too. I for one appreciate the entertainment. :)

                                          Commenter
                                          Lewis
                                          Location
                                          Sydney
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:24PM
                                      • All you liberals supporting the PPL better sell your shares and convert your super funds to cash before the election - the fact the PPL levy doesn't qualify towards franking credits will knock some share prices around!!

                                        Commenter
                                        Macca75
                                        Date and time
                                        August 21, 2013, 1:51PM
                                        • You didn't read the whole article did you Macca?

                                          Commenter
                                          dRod
                                          Location
                                          Sydney
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:12PM
                                        • Talk about instilling confidence in business.

                                          Commenter
                                          tasch2
                                          Location
                                          Mornington Peninsula
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:13PM
                                        • What a load of rubbish - the PPL comes in - oh that's right 1 July 2015

                                          Commenter
                                          Baltic13
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:16PM
                                        • cut cut cut

                                          Commenter
                                          Rick
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:18PM
                                        • dRod - I read three articles - all with different industry bodies talking about how the decision to disallow the levy being used for franking credits will lead to lower returns for investors, super funds in particular.
                                          Lower returns for investors leads to lower share prices for those firms.

                                          Face it - the policy is a complete dud.

                                          Commenter
                                          Macca75
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:30PM
                                        • I know it doesn't come in for another year but investors are forward thinkers

                                          Commenter
                                          Macca75
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:34PM
                                        • Oh rubbish Macca75. Words from someone who has never run a business. The WorkCover levy is also not part of franking credits - yet Labor didn't point that out did they? The net impact of a 1.5% levy on large business (some of which can in turn discard the costs of their existing PPL schemes) is probably a lot lower than what you think. Dividends are paid at the discretion of the board and balanced from retained earnings. I can assure you that especially the large banks are not going to cut their dividends due to this policy. So the impact to the share market and superannuation is going to be a lot more modest than what you think. Macca75: I can't believe you are out there standing up for big business instead of women's rights!!

                                          Commenter
                                          Art
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:35PM
                                        • Quick Macca,

                                          Sell all your shares!

                                          Commenter
                                          beasleyst
                                          Location
                                          Sydney
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:38PM
                                        • Yeah Art, these blokes wouldn't know what they are talkiing about -
                                          The Association of Superannuation Funds of Australia chief executive Pauline Vamos
                                          Clime Asset Management chief investment officer John Abernethy
                                          Corporate Tax Association executive director Frank Drenth
                                          plus Stephen Mayne.

                                          Commenter
                                          Macca75
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:48PM
                                        • When you can point to a banking executive saying this levy will cut their franked dividends, then I will sit up and take notice. I do need to add that most Australian super and investment funds are diversified into a mix of international shares, property, bonds, cash and of course domestic shares. There is no way the impact (which you are blowing out of all proportion here) is actually going to happen.

                                          Commenter
                                          Art
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 3:15PM
                                        • OK Art - you clearly know better than those experts - what are your qualifications again - Liberal party member?

                                          Commenter
                                          Macca75
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 3:30PM
                                        • Art this is some details on John Abernathy - John Abernethy is the Chief Investment Officer at Clime Asset Management. Originally formed in 1996, Clime is a boutique fund manager with approximately $500M under management and has proven itself to be one of Australia’s top performing fund managers over the last several years. Clime offers individually managed accounts and a listed equities fund, to investors looking for consistent long term returns. Prior to this, John was Equities Manager for the NRMA

                                          My tip is he knows a little bit more about it than you!

                                          Commenter
                                          Macca75
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 3:37PM
                                        • Macca75, what the hell would a union hack know about the stock-market.

                                          Commenter
                                          thepres
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 7:24PM
                                      • If Abbott is not proposing to pay woman $75,0000 to have a baby then what is he proposing.

                                        Its now possible for older woman to have babies.

                                        Who knows maybe Julie Bishop could decide to have a baby and if she is still Deputy Opposition or Leader of the Opposition, or back in a law firm .... then she would qualify for $75,000.

                                        Commenter
                                        J. Fraser
                                        Location
                                        Queensland
                                        Date and time
                                        August 21, 2013, 1:52PM
                                        • J Fraser

                                          I like the policy,comes with superannuation . Perhaps there could be a slightly lower replacement wage maximum - $100,000, especially as the budget in such bad shape from Labor 07-12.

                                          Commenter
                                          yys
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:07PM
                                        • J Fraser

                                          It is a replacement wage while mothers are home with their child for first 6 months.
                                          Labor are providing a scheme which provides money for women 16 weeks.
                                          Are you against Labor's scheme too?

                                          Commenter
                                          yys
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:09PM
                                        • And what is wrong with that J. Fraser? Especially in light of the tax that she would have already contributed before being pregnant? If you contribute substantially above the average when in full work mode, shouldn't you be allowed to get something back above the average when you need it most? Given how progressive this policy is (and very in line with the policies used in very social democratic Scandinavia), if it was a Labor policy you would be up there clapping your hands and applauding it. It is an important social democratic reform that will make the gender gap smaller and encourage more capable women to work in small business - which in turn will drive up demands for their skills and drive up their average pay. I say this because, at present, very capable women with plans to start a family will gravitate to those very large businesses (who will be paying the levy) as they more often than not already have generous PPL schemes in place. The LNP PPL policy is a small business and women equality friendly policy, yet the so-called progressives are so caught up in party politics they can't see a good thing when it is staring them in the face.

                                          Commenter
                                          Art
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:15PM
                                        • No Art, you shouldn't because you have no need for the money. Public money should go to those in need and not make a population reliant on government handouts until one day they get taken away because they can't afford it.

                                          The contradiction here is that on one hand the Liberal Party claim there is a budget emergency and on they other the Liberal Party want to blow another $5.5 billion on this scheme.

                                          The ToneFactChecker finds the claim that we're in a budget emergency a Big Fat Lie, or the Liberals wouldn't be out blowing so much money. ($50 billion dollars at last count)

                                          Commenter
                                          Tone
                                          Location
                                          Melbourne
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:40PM
                                        • J. Fraser appears to be a misogynist with a special fear of wealthy, clever women.

                                          Commenter
                                          thereisnoyouinLabor
                                          Location
                                          Brisbane
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:40PM
                                        • Art
                                          Like it or not, the aim of tax is to take from the rich to give to the poor. Not take from the rich to give to the richer.

                                          Commenter
                                          Steve
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:42PM
                                        • Art, he does not like it because it is Julie Bishop.

                                          If it was Anna Bligh he would have no argument with it.

                                          Commenter
                                          Tim of Altona
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:42PM
                                        • I think its an amazingly generous policy.

                                          No doubt self funded retirees struggling to pay their bills will be equally impressed when Abbott comes along and double taxes their income.

                                          Commenter
                                          J. Fraser
                                          Location
                                          Queensland
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:43PM
                                        • J Fraser, so you don't want older women to have babies! Crazy talk

                                          Commenter
                                          genghis
                                          Location
                                          Lounge
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:57PM
                                        • @Tone - and this is where we enter the politics of envy. You clearly think that just because someone works hard, contributes a lot of tax and then decides to have a baby, makes them undeserving of any help. But here is the reality: Imagine you are a women who has had a long, strong career and you are at the end of your fertile cycle. You become desperate to have a child, but at the same time, a divorce, a business venture gone bad or some other misfortune has left you paying a high mortgage, large credit card bills or loans, above average utility bills (due to no-compensation carbon tax) and government mandated high private health insurance. Those may be "luxury problems" in your book, but for the person concerned, they are real day to day living issues and will be stopping them from making the decision to have a child. So someone who has made a large positive contribution to society, someone who has been paying the dole for probably 4-5 people whilst working, is now supposed to give up her dream of being a mother just because she is "undeserving" under your entitlement test? There are many ways to determine who is deserving government support. Posted taxable income should not be the only one.

                                          Commenter
                                          Art
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 3:00PM
                                        • It is a decent policy, not 'generous'. Have you had to make the decision between rushing back to work after giving birth v staying home for a while with child to the benefit if the family, which is to the benefit of working mothers, families business and society. You too J Fraser will benefit in the long run.

                                          Commenter
                                          yys
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 3:03PM
                                        • Wrong Art. I do pretty well for myself. In fact I sit right up the top segment of the wealth pyramid. I just don't think Howard needed to introduce the biggest tax in Australia's history, the GST, just to give us the money back as handouts. That's exactly what he did. Taxation wouldn't need to be as high as it is if it was only used to support the people that need it.

                                          Commenter
                                          Tone
                                          Location
                                          Melbourne
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 3:11PM
                                        • J.Fraser, you are getting more desperate and ridiculous by the hour, god knows what you will be like on Election Day.

                                          Commenter
                                          thepres
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 5:03PM
                                        • That $75,000 will ultimately come from shareholder dividends and superannuation funds. Big business wont pay for it the taxpayer will.

                                          Commenter
                                          Meredith
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 8:46PM
                                      • Rudd promises $15 million for cancer care Nurses.

                                        Abbott visits trucking factory to fill the roads he has promised.

                                        What's wrong with this picture ?

                                        Commenter
                                        J. Fraser
                                        Location
                                        Queensland
                                        Date and time
                                        August 21, 2013, 1:57PM
                                        • Your'e right - there is something wrong - Rudd has to borrow the $15m because Labor have spent all the nation's money.

                                          Commenter
                                          Tim of Altona
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:07PM
                                        • That's what "road scholars" do.

                                          Commenter
                                          A country gal
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:09PM
                                        • Fraser,

                                          What a ridiculous comment!

                                          Abbott spends time in Indigenous communities.
                                          Rudd jets all around the world.

                                          What's wrong with that picture?

                                          Commenter
                                          dRod
                                          Location
                                          Sydney
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:10PM
                                        • The promises you fool.

                                          Commenter
                                          Pen of hrba
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:10PM
                                        • Rudd didn't tell us where the $15 mil is coming from. What he he going to cut cut cut.

                                          Commenter
                                          Brian
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:12PM
                                        • The promises you fool.

                                          Commenter
                                          Pen of hrba
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:32PM
                                      • What came first :

                                        The LNP newman giving away public land to a football club

                                        or

                                        Abbott's visit to that same football club ... on the same day.

                                        ???

                                        Commenter
                                        J. Fraser
                                        Location
                                        Queensland
                                        Date and time
                                        August 21, 2013, 1:59PM
                                        • Tell you what came first -

                                          Anna Bligh's destruction of the Queensland economy

                                          followed by

                                          Campbell Newman's resurrection of the Queensland economy

                                          Commenter
                                          Tim of Altona
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:36PM
                                        • @"Tim of Altona"

                                          And part of it was by giving away public land to football clubs.

                                          Makes people wonder what happened to newman's "the Spain of Australia" quote in relation to the Queensland economy.

                                          Commenter
                                          J. Fraser
                                          Location
                                          Queensland
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:56PM
                                      • The Pulse ..2:00pm: Is it just me or has Mr Rudd adopted Coalition leader Tony Abbott's sausage sans bread approach to barbecue campaigning?

                                        Lets hope that Abbott adopts some of the articulation of Rudd.

                                        Even "programmatic specificity" would be an improvement on "suppository of intelligence"

                                        Commenter
                                        J. Fraser
                                        Location
                                        Queensland
                                        Date and time
                                        August 21, 2013, 2:06PM
                                          • It's you, Fraser.

                                            Like you new bestie Kevin, it's always " just" you.

                                            Commenter
                                            Louis Cypher
                                            Date and time
                                            August 21, 2013, 3:13PM
                                          • @"Louis Cypher"

                                            Check out The Pulse @ 2:00PM.

                                            It was never about me.

                                            But thanks for treating me like royalty/rock star.

                                            Commenter
                                            J. Fraser
                                            Location
                                            Queensland
                                            Date and time
                                            August 21, 2013, 3:29PM
                                        • "The Department of Immigration has confirmed that 14 adults and 12 children arrived on the island [Nauru] this morning."

                                          Six portable toilets.

                                          Several hundred asylum seekers.

                                          No running water to wash clothes.

                                          Dysentery outbreak.

                                          Advance Australia Fair?

                                          Commenter
                                          Pen of hrba
                                          Date and time
                                          August 21, 2013, 2:09PM
                                          • Hmm, did Thérèse Rein cut Rudd's hair with a pair of secateurs last night?

                                            Commenter
                                            Pen of hrba
                                            Date and time
                                            August 21, 2013, 2:20PM
                                            • I was thinking similar Pen - his haircut looks pretty rough to me & the barber might have got confused before he finished the cut with Ruddy rabbiting on about Abbott's cut, cut, cut!!

                                              Commenter
                                              trudac
                                              Location
                                              Sydney
                                              Date and time
                                              August 21, 2013, 2:50PM
                                          • 2.01 A Rudd revelation.
                                            By having some fruit then the sausage he can avoid the suppository (of wisdom).

                                            Commenter
                                            A country gal
                                            Date and time
                                            August 21, 2013, 2:21PM
                                            • @2pm photo - beware a man who eats his snag with no bread.

                                              Commenter
                                              brian
                                              Date and time
                                              August 21, 2013, 2:22PM
                                              • "In fact, a distressing number of PolitiFact's checks have come up with False or Mostly False verdicts on statements made by the two main parties (though since the campaign began, the ALP has rated more outright False verdicts than the Coalition by quite a margin)."

                                                Oh dear, now the liars are rated by who has the biggest score? What is the prize? No don't tell me, the one scoring a bull eye is THE WINNER?

                                                Commenter
                                                Pen of hrba
                                                Date and time
                                                August 21, 2013, 2:27PM
                                                • "Mr Rudd is fighting a war against the Liberals..."

                                                  I think he's fighting the battle of the bulge too. Avoiding carbos is the classic give away.

                                                  Commenter
                                                  Lewis
                                                  Location
                                                  Sydney
                                                  Date and time
                                                  August 21, 2013, 2:28PM
                                                  • Abbott on his PPL: "Every social advance attracts its critics; every social advance since the beginning of time has attracted critics who said the world as we know it will end - if you pay people the pensions, if you introduce support for people with disabilities."

                                                    That's probably why TA objected to Gonski, NBN, Medibank, ...... the sun rising in the morning .....

                                                    When will we see and hear TA's interview of a few years ago supporting a price on carbon? When will we get an explanation about the Ashby affair? Why is Slipper on charges over travel expenses when TA had to repay ten times the amount?

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Grizwald
                                                    Location
                                                    Alexandria
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 21, 2013, 2:32PM
                                                    • AND Why didnt Englishman Abbott call Howards ETS a "Carbon Tax"?

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Steeden
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 2:52PM
                                                    • So many unanswered questions.

                                                      And still the Murdoch media thinks Australians should vote for Murdoch's choice.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      J. Fraser
                                                      Location
                                                      Queensland
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 2:53PM
                                                    • It's such a shame that if the Liberals get in they are going to hobble the only really visionary project on offer (other than the NDIS) the NBN.

                                                      Just about every country that has ever implemented fibre to the node now wishes that they had've done fibre to the home.

                                                      Using the New Zealand cost benefits study, the Labor version of the NBN is likely to bring in A$105 billion to $237 billion dollars over 20 years.

                                                      According to that document, the same cannot be achieved with the Liberal Party version of the NBN.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Tone
                                                      Location
                                                      Melbourne
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:03PM
                                                  • Rudd has just said that 'you will all go diving into the weeds' to try to establish whether he has any previous history of ideas about changing the northern part of Oz into a special economic zone.

                                                    I don't know about anyone else, but at this point in proceedings, with both sides' costings looking a little dubious given the fiscal outlook, I could certainly do with some weed, preferably some "Botswanan 'ome grown" like Ali G.

                                                    Isn't it about time the Northern Territory's name was changed to something a little more inspiring than The Northern Territory?

                                                    What about an Aboriginal name?

                                                    Come on Kev, maaaate, you are good at symbolism - give it a shake...

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Hans von Schlappenplanker
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 21, 2013, 2:55PM
                                                    • Tone,

                                                      Just about every other country in the OECD (32 out of 34) pays replacement wage maternity leave, yet you are against that!

                                                      Commenter
                                                      beasleyst
                                                      Location
                                                      Sydney
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:10PM
                                                    • I haven't made a comment here beastley st. What are you smoking?

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Tone
                                                      Location
                                                      Melbourne
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:42PM
                                                    • I'm utterly lost - could u 2 take your squabble elsewhere s'il vous plais?

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Hans von Schlappenplanker
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 4:12PM
                                                  • Even Rudd's slash of an haircut won't aid the truth displayed on the dial of his bathroom scales: consuming fat, intestine skin, and preservatives is believing one can swallow anything and get away with it.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Pen of hrba
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 21, 2013, 2:59PM
                                                    • Well, he did just score yet another "mostly false" on Poltifact.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Lewis
                                                      Location
                                                      Sydney
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:13PM
                                                  • JUst in case some may have missed it ... I will take a page out of someone else's cut & paste tactics.

                                                    Abbott's PPL :

                                                    "I think its an amazingly generous policy.
                                                    No doubt self funded retirees struggling to pay their bills will be equally impressed when Abbott comes along and double taxes their income.
                                                    Commenter
                                                    J. Fraser
                                                    Location
                                                    Queensland
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 21, 2013, 2:43PM"

                                                    Commenter
                                                    J. Fraser
                                                    Location
                                                    Queensland
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 21, 2013, 3:00PM
                                                    • And another dose of assumption with an extra dollop of conjecture served up on a plate smeared with something that stinks to high heaven of B.S..

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Pen of hrba
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:24PM
                                                    • Does this explain why you're struggling to build up your 'nest egg' Fraze?

                                                      My advice is ditch any non-perfoming shares, hope that helps.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      SteveH.
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:44PM
                                                    • @"SteveH."

                                                      My advice to Fairfax Media is to ditch the talkback presenters on their radio stations and move into the 21st century.

                                                      Selling it will not give any profits and I think they have been burned enough with Drive and Real Estate.com.au

                                                      If Abbott should ever get power you will only have one paper in Victoria & N.S.W ..... just like Qld.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      J. Fraser
                                                      Location
                                                      Queensland
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 4:03PM
                                                  • Anyone focusing on Rudd and his promises and costings?
                                                    Rudd seems to be able to run around announcing anything he likes without being asked where's the money coming from.
                                                    Rudd announces and then goes straight onto Abbott cut cut cut and the media dutifully run off repeating Rudds lines for him.
                                                    I'll ask - Rudd where are you going to cut cut cut to pay for your promisies?

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Anthony
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 21, 2013, 3:05PM
                                                    • Rudds answer.....
                                                      Abbott Abbott Abbott will cut cut cut to the bone.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Kim
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:12PM
                                                    • That's the problem. He's not going to cut anything. Just keeping on spending.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      dcs
                                                      Location
                                                      Brisbane
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:18PM
                                                    • Err, I have been doing my best to inform you that you are being lied too?

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Pen of hrba
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:25PM
                                                    • Spending

                                                      ALP $3 billion

                                                      LNP $30 billion

                                                      Savings

                                                      LNP to take the school kids bonus and super from the workers

                                                      But give back the mining tax (projected $700 million?) to Gina at al

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Francis One
                                                      Location
                                                      Holy See
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:27PM
                                                    • Liberals asking about the funding of Labor's promises is like a bank robber distracting the policeman by pointing to a jaywalker.

                                                      Tony Abbott treats the Australian voting public as they are a mob of Inspector Clouseaus.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Whyalla Wipeout
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:29PM
                                                    • Anthony,

                                                      What about Abbott's 200 PBO policy costings that he's completely failed to reveal with only 15 days to go until 5 Sep 2013?

                                                      Abbott and Hockey refuse to abide by the Coalition's own Charter of Budget Honesty.

                                                      They pull the same stunt they did during the 2010 election by using a poorly resourced, time poor third party to review their costings.

                                                      Hockey claims 'costings are boring' as a good excuse for withholding savage spending cuts and tax hikes from the electorate.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Tristan
                                                      Location
                                                      Melbourne
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 5:21PM
                                                  • It's finally happened, there is something less interesting than this election campaign. This blog.

                                                    The same people (me included) saying the same things again and again, groundhog day indeed.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Norm
                                                    Location
                                                    Maroubra
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 21, 2013, 3:05PM
                                                    • Speak for yourself, how dare you spread your trite nonsense at my door. I'll have you know that I write facts and nothing but the facts. Who else wrote that Thérèse Rein cut Rudd's hair with a pair of secateurs last night?

                                                      Damned impertinent swine, you should be horsewhipped.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Pen of hrba
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:35PM
                                                  • A limerick for Kevin, to lighten his day.

                                                    There was a pollie called Rudd,
                                                    With colleagues that thought him a dud,
                                                    But they put him back in,
                                                    With hopes he might win,
                                                    But alas he went down with a thud.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Poet Laureate
                                                    Location
                                                    Sydney
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 21, 2013, 3:11PM
                                                    • Sensational - well done

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Tim of Altona
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:31PM
                                                    • Brilliant - and highly succinct.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      kp
                                                      Location
                                                      brisbane
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:32PM
                                                    • Then to our surprise he was back with a grin,
                                                      Only the polls had him in the bin.
                                                      A few more flicks of his hair,
                                                      And then he was there.
                                                      It was loserTony's votes that were too thin.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Poet two
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 4:58PM
                                                  • Of the 34 countries in the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), 33 offer paid parental leave schemes. Of these 33 countries, Australia is one of only two that fails to pay leave based on a replacement wage. By offering only minimum wage, Australia is left economically behind its major OECD competitors.

                                                    Not the sort of thing the "progressives" would object to you would think....

                                                    Commenter
                                                    notlad
                                                    Location
                                                    Sydney
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 21, 2013, 3:14PM
                                                    • I may not be a "progressive" but I sure do object to it.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Lewis
                                                      Location
                                                      Sydney
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:24PM
                                                    • But Australia is broke .... broke .... broke ..... broke.

                                                      We have to reign in spending ... we have to reign in spending ... we have to reign in spending.

                                                      Don't you listen ?

                                                      Commenter
                                                      J. Fraser
                                                      Location
                                                      Queensland
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:26PM
                                                    • +1

                                                      But Shhh!!! Don't tell the Labor team. They are too busy with their politics of envy and tall poppy syndrome to remember what progressive really means. Closing the gender pay gap disparity is less important than shouting down a progressive policy from "the enemy".

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Art
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:27PM
                                                    • currently 96-98% of women workers in Australia have paid parental leave, 51% have employer paid and financed leave replacement schemes PLUS the adult minimum wage scheme. Of those on the Govt scheme exclusively, the average income is around $45k, and many low income and casualise women workers actually get more from the Government PPL than their take home pay.
                                                      These comments about OECD are ill-informed. Australia has introduced a hybrid PPL system, mostly employer funded, with a Government payment underpinning. Just like out policy on the age pension underpinning superannuation ( except you can't get both).

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Marie Coleman
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:27PM
                                                    • Yes true and some of those countries are broke, don't include Scandinavia they pay high taxes.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      amro
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:29PM
                                                    • That's interesting notlad. Can you point me to where you obtained your information. I personally find it very hard to believe that 31 of 34 countries in the OECD offers universal paid parental leave at replacement wages.

                                                      If that is the case, it is no wonder that Australia has done so well economically in comparison with every other country in the OECD.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Whyalla Wipeout
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:35PM
                                                    • That claim doesn't sound plausible.

                                                      Tax money is money for people that need it. If you want to have a baby, do it from your own wallet thanks.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Tone
                                                      Location
                                                      Melbourne
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 4:10PM
                                                    • Check this out Whyalla. It would help if a few more of you read the policy too.

                                                      http://lpaweb-static.s3.amazonaws.com/The%20Coalition’s%20Policy%20for%20Paid%20Parental%20Leave.pdf

                                                      Commenter
                                                      notlad
                                                      Location
                                                      Sydney
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 4:44PM
                                                    • No all OECD countries get full pay examples are on.

                                                      www.oecd.org/els/social/family/database

                                                      Commenter
                                                      amro
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 4:46PM
                                                  • It is actually hilarious at the moment. Here we have Labor and their pundits attacking a progressive women's pay disparity policy and, at the same time, they are defending the rights of those pesky capitalist investors to make a buck from profitable big business. I think Labor is out of touch with it's roots to be honest.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Art
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 21, 2013, 3:22PM
                                                    • The female workers in Labor's roots do not earn $150k plus a year. They already benefit from the paid parental leave introduced by the Labor Government. They won't get much more from the Liberals. But the Ms Investment Bankers, looking to have a baby as a fashion accessory, will be happy.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Whyalla Wipeout
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:32PM
                                                    • In the past 30 years the ALP has introduced any number of refroms that have benefitted both business and their traditional base.

                                                      The libs sadly have done neither and the PPL just follows that tradition.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Macca75
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:41PM
                                                    • Whyalla Wipeout
                                                      So are you saying that if a woman votes Labor she will never be able to advance her salary to $150,000 or beyond?
                                                      Thought Labor was all for equal opportunity?

                                                      Commenter
                                                      yys
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:44PM
                                                    • @Whyalla Wipeout

                                                      If I was a woman I would pull you up on that one hard!! But I am not, so I will settle for: How dare you?? So having a baby when working hard and doing well is a fashion accessory in your book? What does that make having a baby when you are a low income earner? A welfare booster? Seriously!! Could you sink any lower? I do not tip my hat to you sir!

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Art
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:45PM
                                                    • You're right Whyalla. Ms Gillard upped her salary to $500k. Labor isn't just about the factory floor.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      dcs
                                                      Location
                                                      Brisbane
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:48PM
                                                    • Hey Art, nobody could sink as low as Tony Abbott on asylum seekers. As for the rest, I knew all the types that you are talking about. Great career hunters who supported the Liberals because that is the party of dog eat dog and they thought they could eat all the other dogs, male and female, that obstructed their career.

                                                      The fact is, you made a bizarre comment that giving a government hand-out to very highly paid women is somehow Labor getting away from its roots. In fact, Labor looked after the women it cares most about by providing PPL to those who can least afford it - and most need it for essentials, not to maintain expensive lifestyles.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Whyalla Wipeout
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:57PM
                                                    • yys,
                                                      The average paid female mother will be worse off under the LNP's ppl.
                                                      In addition the PPL is too generous, taxes self-funded retirees to pay for it & superannuates too.
                                                      Is open to rorting through those that channel their money from private companies or trusts to their spouses who actually don't work.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Econorat
                                                      Location
                                                      Sydney
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 4:05PM
                                                  • That reminds me - Bronwyn Bishop will make fine replacement for Anna Burke in the next parliament.

                                                    Who would be brave enough to defy her?

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Tim of Altona
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 21, 2013, 3:27PM
                                                    • Provided she doesn't take advantage of Abbott's overly generous PPL.

                                                      Her peers are already starting to object to it.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      J. Fraser
                                                      Location
                                                      Queensland
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:41PM
                                                    • Bronny Bishop?
                                                      Paid Parental Leave?
                                                      Just how retrospective is this going to be?
                                                      The bind moggles.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      David D
                                                      Location
                                                      Ettalong Beach
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 4:16PM
                                                  • I am really suffering from election fatigue. I hope tonights debate produces some kind of spark. I am turning off the adverts whenever they appear and that includes staying off free to air TV. I think the adverts largely insult the intelligence of the average Australian by suggesting that people will simply accept the lies and exaggerations from all sides. However, yesterday morning I heard one Canberra morning radio presenter accept one advert as being factual so maybe I am giving my fellow Australian's too much credit.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Greg Mc
                                                    Location
                                                    Canberra
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 21, 2013, 3:41PM
                                                    • Good luck with that. I'm not watching it. I try to watch interesting stuff. Those two have nothing to say anyway.

                                                      Tomorrow all you will hear is "Abbott won" no "Rudd won" no "Abbott won" no "Rudd won" all day.

                                                      In the meanwhile, we all lose.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Tone
                                                      Location
                                                      Melbourne
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:56PM
                                                  • And one for TA

                                                    There was a boy from Riverview,
                                                    Who'd take a punch and give a few,
                                                    Eventually he found a throne,
                                                    Ascended it and sat alone,
                                                    And sagely told a fib or two.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Poet Laureate
                                                    Location
                                                    Sydney
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 21, 2013, 3:44PM
                                                      • Does that mean Murdoch, Pell and Gina are going to have to make room for Abbott ?

                                                        Commenter
                                                        J. Fraser
                                                        Location
                                                        Queensland
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 3:50PM
                                                      • No, J.Fraser, he is just a very good politician doing what they have done for generations. You have nothing to fear but fear itself...there is no great conspiracy going on, no holy trinity to feed your paranoia, you need a holiday!

                                                        Commenter
                                                        Halfback
                                                        Location
                                                        Sydney
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 4:03PM
                                                      • Describes Bill Shorten perfectly.

                                                        Commenter
                                                        Cwitty
                                                        Location
                                                        Sydney
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 4:04PM
                                                      • @"Half Back"

                                                        Are you seeing conspiracies ?

                                                        "Holy Trinities" ?

                                                        Time for you to rejoin Abbotts party before they have to go back to the Broncos looking for you.

                                                        Commenter
                                                        J. Fraser
                                                        Location
                                                        Queensland
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 4:19PM
                                                      • To add:

                                                        And once upon that throne,
                                                        He thought bubbled a drone.
                                                        Argh a clever way to stop the boats,
                                                        To garner a few more votes.
                                                        No more refugees to moan.

                                                        Commenter
                                                        Poet two
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 4:30PM
                                                      • Nice snarl J.Fraser. Truly, the amount of vitriol you can generate would threaten the world even if it had just 1% CarbonDioxide emission as a byproduct. Oh, and I've cancelled your holiday!

                                                        Commenter
                                                        Halfback
                                                        Location
                                                        Sydney
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 4:41PM
                                                    • Currently ............ self funded retirees pay tax only once on their franking credits .... and this is what they live on.

                                                      Under Abbott's PPL they will be taxed twice.

                                                      Thats called double dipping.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      J. Fraser
                                                      Location
                                                      Queensland
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:46PM
                                                      • Just like the WorkCover levy.

                                                        Commenter
                                                        Art
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 3:50PM
                                                      • The workcover levy is an insurance and is tax deductible - it is completely different, it's like saying they don't get to claim franking credits on their electricity.

                                                        Commenter
                                                        Macca75
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 3:53PM
                                                      • BHP pays about 50% at the margins in taxes but the franking credits do not exceed 30%. Did some one tell self funded retirees that they wil not get Franking credits on the Mining Tax... Or the Carbon Tax.. Or the Flood Levy... Or payrol tax or any other tax or levy except Company Income tax... OUTRAGEOUS

                                                        Commenter
                                                        Cwitty
                                                        Location
                                                        Sydney
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 3:59PM
                                                      • Cwitty - BHP get a tax deduction on their royalties (refunded by the mining tax) the carbon tax & payroll tax (plus any other that you could mention) and corporations never paid the flood levy.

                                                        Are you suggesting they get a tax deduction for the paid parental leave levy?

                                                        Commenter
                                                        Macca75
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 4:05PM
                                                      • Macca75 - it is nevertheless a mandatory cost that reduces company profits and thereby dividends. If the coalition wanted to, they could have framed the PPL as an insurance scheme in the same way. It is worthy of it, just like the NDIS that the coalition actually support. My point is that to use the dividend issue as a political leverage factor is about as disingenuous as it gets. You either hit "big business" or you don't. Nobody on the Labor side had any problem with the "Super Profits Tax" for mining. That would have hit super-annuants just as hard (if not harder) if the original proposal was implemented. You can't have it both ways. Either you extract money form business (hurting super in the process) or you extract money from individuals (hurting families in the process). Take your pick. The money has to come from somewhere. I'm still waiting to heat what Labor is going to cut, cut, cut to get the budget back to surplus. They are going to have to do something after all....

                                                        Commenter
                                                        Art
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 4:11PM
                                                      • Art - Clearly you have never run a business - the difference is the tax deductibility - one is an expense the other is a tax.

                                                        As for the ALP's cuts - they have promised $4b in spending the libs have promised $30b - which one is going to have to cut harder?

                                                        Commenter
                                                        Macca75
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 4:18PM
                                                      • Macca - I am only stating the obvious that Franking Credits on Dividends are only available against company Income tax. Carbon tax payments do not generate extra franking credits. Mining Tax payments do not generate extra credits. State taxes like Payroll and Royalties do not generate extra Franking credits. The PPL Levy is not company income tax and does not generate franking credits... Just like the Carbon Tax. J Fray aka J’CrayCray’ – didn’t complain about the lack of Franking Credits on the Carbon Tax or JRudds Mining TAX.

                                                        Commenter
                                                        Cwitty
                                                        Location
                                                        Sydney
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 4:22PM
                                                      • I think you'll find Cwitty that Mining companies pay an effective rate of tax of 17%, it's not as straightforward as in other industries because they pay royalties as well as taxes but I think you'll find that's their effective rate of tax.

                                                        If you are at all interested in the truth you could always email Ross Gittens or Peter Martin to check, they would probably know the headline figure.

                                                        Commenter
                                                        havasay
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 4:30PM
                                                      • Cwitty - You don't get it do you - all those other taxes you list off reduce the compnays pre tax profit and therefore reduce the corporate tax the company pays - they are treated as expenses.

                                                        This levy is NOT tax deductible - that is the very big difference.

                                                        Commenter
                                                        Macca75
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 4:34PM
                                                      • Macca75: Clearly you have never run a business. Just because something is tax deductible does not mean you don't have to pay for it. It just means you pay the tax percentage less than the face value. You still have to pay for it. If I buy a desk for one of my staff and deduct that as an expense on tax, it just lowers my taxable income. It does not make the expense magically go away. The WorkCover levy is in that category. Yes - I can tax deduct it. But as a small business owner it still hurts the dividends I can pay myself. All of this is just a semantic distraction from Labor to try and say that the entire cost of the PPL is being passed onto ordinary people. It is no more so than the carbon tax or payroll tax - it is just a cost of doing business.

                                                        Commenter
                                                        Art
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 4:46PM
                                                      • There was a briefing where the company stated this year’s effective tax rate was 39.9% (this was considered a good year as the normal rate of effective tax moves between 40 and 55%). If they were lying you should tell ASIC. I also have a statement that tells me my Franking Credits are only equal to 30%. They paid extra tax but my franking credits are only equal to the marginal rate of company tax. Go Figure. Mining tax is a profit tax and is therefore not deductible against profit. You calculate company profit before the Mining tax is paid. Unlike payroll tax, Mining Tax does not reduce the amount of Income tax the company pays. It increases the effective rate of tax but does not generate Franking credits. You can find all of the details on the BHP website under the investor link.

                                                        Commenter
                                                        Cwitty
                                                        Location
                                                        Sydney
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 5:04PM
                                                    • Here's a doozy from the Christisn Democratic Party:

                                                      "Same-sex couples earn 29 per cent more money than male-female couples. Mum and Dad taxpayers are the most oppressed Australians in our economy."

                                                      Obviously the Christians no longer adhere to, "The desire of a man is his kindness: and a poor man is better than a liar" (Pr. 19:22).

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Pen of hrba
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:48PM
                                                      • Actually, Pen, I would say it was parents with one partner working and the other at home with the children without paying work of any kind.

                                                        In my day, I suffered the social criticism to be a working professional mother.

                                                        Now my daughter suffers the financial struggle of being a stay at home mother.

                                                        And yes, Mr Abbott and everyone else who thinks only professional women earning $150,000 make worthwhile parents (which is the message of the Liberal PPL scheme, isn't it), my daughter is well educated but her partner earns a low to average wage.

                                                        Commenter
                                                        TiredOfSpin
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 4:44PM
                                                    • Just for a break away from babies :

                                                      http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/it-pro/it-opinion/get-smart-or-come-last-lobby-group-wants-australia-to-get-behind-the-nbn-20130821-hv1hg.html

                                                      Oh ! ... and Abbott ... because everyone knows he isn't a tech head.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      J. Fraser
                                                      Location
                                                      Queensland
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 21, 2013, 3:52PM
                                                      • Hmmm, maybe its time us regular commentators passed the hat around for poor old Fraze, it seems he's doing it tough on Struggle Street.

                                                        Commenter
                                                        SteveH.
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 3:55PM
                                                        • @"SteveH."

                                                          As a struggling student I know you can't have much ... so instead of offering me money why don't you give a little more to charity ?

                                                          Perhaps a Mother on $150k who is pregnant.

                                                          Commenter
                                                          J. Fraser
                                                          Location
                                                          Queensland
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 21, 2013, 4:11PM
                                                        • Thanks Fraze, but I've already made my contribution in that department.

                                                          The runs are already on the board, as they say.

                                                          But don't be shy in asking for help, us Aussies have to stick together.

                                                          Commenter
                                                          SteveH.
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 21, 2013, 4:26PM
                                                      • And now that we have put the baby down.

                                                        How is Abbott going with bringing himself up to an acceptable standard with computers ?

                                                        One would hope that any future P.M. of Australia could navigate his way through the electronic age.

                                                        Or is Abbott too busy riding bikes and doing "unpaid" charity work ?

                                                        Commenter
                                                        J. Fraser
                                                        Location
                                                        Queensland
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 3:57PM
                                                        • Well the airline did OK for the charity work, over $30,000 wasn't it? Just for one trip to gloss the image!

                                                          Commenter
                                                          A country gal
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 21, 2013, 4:12PM
                                                        • JF: why are you always so bitter? Must be because of your deep involvement with Labor - makes one bitter, doesn't it?

                                                          Commenter
                                                          ET
                                                          Location
                                                          Lakesland
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 21, 2013, 4:17PM
                                                        • Fraser has cottoned on to the fact of funding shadows. Well done, Fraser keep at it you may spot a lie before the election.

                                                          Commenter
                                                          Pen of hrba
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 21, 2013, 4:23PM
                                                        • J Fazer is not bitter.

                                                          He just has a very dry and wicked sense of humour.

                                                          Put your tongue in cheek and then read his comment.

                                                          Commenter
                                                          TiredOfSpin
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 21, 2013, 4:35PM
                                                        • @"ET"

                                                          How is asking if Abbott has upgraded his computer skills 2 years after he admitted he was not a "tech head" ?

                                                          http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/im-no-bill-gates-abbott-stumbles-on-broadband-plan-20100811-11yp5.html

                                                          Where is the "bitterness" in that ?

                                                          Commenter
                                                          J. Fraser
                                                          Location
                                                          Queensland
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 21, 2013, 4:38PM
                                                      • I thought the opposition was a coalition; WHERES WAZZA? - the alternative deputy Prime Minister? (now theres a scary thought)

                                                        Commenter
                                                        David D
                                                        Location
                                                        Ettalong Beach
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 21, 2013, 4:00PM
                                                        • I ahd to look twice to distinguish Phil Ruddick from the residence of the home in that photo at 3.21 - another example of the youthful approach an Abbott govt will have.

                                                          Commenter
                                                          Macca75
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 21, 2013, 4:02PM
                                                          • Surely an example of ageism...not to be tolerated in this campaign.

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Tony
                                                            Location
                                                            Paddington
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:10PM
                                                          • Yes, we don't want you pointing out how the Liberal Party supporters have all aged. Take your suppository and focus on the sex appeal of our candidates thanks.

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Tone
                                                            Location
                                                            Melbourne
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:26PM
                                                        • Wow Clive, "The Truth"tomm- if it's what I think it will be an election circuit breaker. If it's the warts and all version. Missing a couple of names though.
                                                          Enough to give him a Pref!
                                                          GO CLIVE!

                                                          Commenter
                                                          A country gal
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 21, 2013, 4:10PM
                                                          • I agree!

                                                            Go Clive!!

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Sharron
                                                            Location
                                                            Canberra
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:42PM
                                                        • Ok you lot...a summary of relevant issues from todays comments

                                                          Did Tony Abbott have clean socks on before he played bowls and will he put clean socks on before the debate
                                                          Why is Kevin Rudd always eating?
                                                          Who cut Kevin's hair?
                                                          Will hair spray, finger food and clean socks be part of tonight's agenda, if so who is paying?

                                                          Finally does Bronnie Bishop really have a fan club?

                                                          Commenter
                                                          Pressing questions!
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 21, 2013, 4:18PM
                                                          • Bronnie does have a fan club ... although small .... amongst woman on $150k who want to get pregnant.

                                                            Her peers in her fan club are not happy.

                                                            Commenter
                                                            J. Fraser
                                                            Location
                                                            Queensland
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:28PM
                                                        • Will The Pulse be covering this evening's festivities ?

                                                          Commenter
                                                          Hacka
                                                          Location
                                                          Canberra
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 21, 2013, 4:18PM
                                                          • The Pulse will be covering tonight's forum, Stephanie will be handing over to Jacqueline Maley in a little while.

                                                            Commenter
                                                            The Mod.
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:30PM
                                                          • @The Pulse

                                                            Good job Stephanie.

                                                            Looking forward to a few laughs with J. Maley.

                                                            Commenter
                                                            J. Fraser
                                                            Location
                                                            Queensland
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:46PM
                                                        • So since the GFC the socialist left have been extolling the virtues of the socialist leaning Scandinavian countries which includes an even more generous PPL system than the coalition offers. Apparently now that is bad thing.
                                                          Then you have people like Whyalla and Macca75 suggesting that the only women having babies who vote labor are earning less than minimum wage because everyone else is better off under the coalition PPL. Either that or they are being deliberately deceitful / ignorant by not acknowledging that anyone earning at least the minimum wage will be better off under the coalition.

                                                          Commenter
                                                          Already Reflected
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 21, 2013, 4:22PM
                                                          • "everyone else is better off under the coalition PPL"

                                                            Er, only women wanting babies get the money. The rest of the population are screwed royally.

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Tone
                                                            Location
                                                            Melbourne
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:31PM
                                                          • Don't put words in my mouth - the libs PPL could be better than the ALP's and still far less generous than what they have proposed.
                                                            Govt tax revenue is scarce and need to be applied to the area of greatest need - women earning $150k or over are not in the greatest need.

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Macca75
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:37PM
                                                          • No Tone, i was specifically referring to pregnant women. But even then we're all better off as it's a social reform and much needed in my opinion. The pressure on women to get back to the workforce ASAP when they have a baby is a blight on our society and a policy that allows women to have a minimum 6 months at home, breast feeding if they can, and bonding with their child is invaluable. If you don't believe in people having babies go and live on a desert island and see how long it is before you're extinct. For everyone else who understands that we need to keep procreating it should be obvious that anything we can do to help women who have given birth spend more time with their child whilst not being penalized in their career is a good thing. Even for women earning up to $150k. There seems to be a lot of resentment of women having babies from the lefties here, especially if they're earning more than the minimum wage.

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Already Reflected
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:44PM
                                                          • Yeah,

                                                            And Abbott and Hockey flap their gums about the Coalition supposedly being the party that proposes "small government" and Hockey gave this this great big speech in London in 2012 called "The End of the Age of Entitlement".

                                                            It was about ending unsustainable, vote buying, uncapped, non-means tested middle class welfare and the "I deserve it sense of entitlement" mentality first fostered and entrenched by the Howard/Costello government.

                                                            And then Abbott rolls out his goldplated parental leave scheme.

                                                            And it's no good neocons moaning about generous European parental leave schemes.

                                                            Neocons want European style welfare benefits while paying Asian or Cyprus style tax rates.

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Tristan
                                                            Location
                                                            Melbourne
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:48PM
                                                          • Macca75, you said Labor has a tradition of implementing policies that support not only their traditional base but business as well. You also said the coalition PPL policy does not follow this, extrapolating this you are saying the coalition policy does not support Labor's traditional voter base. By further extrapolation based on the fact that this policy will benefit any woman who has a child and earns at least the minimum wage then you are actually saying that women having babies who earn minimum wage or more do not vote labor. If you didn't mean that then don't make such broad baseless statements that have no relation to reality.
                                                            The libs policy could be more generous but not go as far but then professional women, who contribute huge amounts in tax revenue would be penalized when this is a work entitlement and not a welfare benefit. It is social reform, you know the type the unions fight for as long as its not the libs delivering it.

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Already Reflected
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:59PM
                                                          • Scandinavian countries also tax a lot more. Will you put your and up for that?

                                                            Commenter
                                                            tasch2
                                                            Location
                                                            Mornington Peninsula
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 5:03PM
                                                          • The Scandinavian Countries can afford generous PPL because the have a serious Resources Rent Tax.

                                                            They held out when the mining companies said they would up and leave and not stay in Scandinavia.

                                                            The mining companies did not leave.

                                                            The Resource Rent Tax pays proper compensation for the minerals that are exported.

                                                            The Resource Rent Tax funds many social programs.

                                                            Gillard tried to model the Mining Tax on the Scandinavian Resource Tax, but the Mining Companies negotiated her down and down and down. Big bullies they!

                                                            So we have a Mining Tax today that brings our Consolidated Revenue almost nothing.

                                                            Maybe the PPL would be fully funded if Abbott upped the levv from 1.5% to 2%, capped the full compensation at $60,000 and paid a diminishing compensation between $61,000 and $150,000.

                                                            Maybe those earning $150,000 could get a third of their salary plus super.

                                                            I think that this would be a more acceptable scheme to the greater population who view the existing scheme as upper class welfare.

                                                            Commenter
                                                            TiredOfSpin
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 5:12PM
                                                          • Tristian, I'd much rather we gold plate our children and the bond they build with their mother who won't have to worry about their livelihood or risks to their career, than gold plate a ten lane highway to every house, even if 99% of them only ever need to a bike path.

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Already Reflected
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 5:12PM
                                                          • Already Reflected,

                                                            If it's a work entitlement, then it's paid by the woman's employer like annual leave, sick leave, etc.

                                                            This is a government levy, so it's welfare.

                                                            Reminds me of Costello's creative accounting when he designated monies paid to the states and not repayable as "loans" not "grants".

                                                            Or Abbott's distortion of the true number of long term unemployed, by creating work for the dole.

                                                            Page 35 of Liberal campaign document 1996 "After 13 Years How Labor Has Failed Australia"

                                                            Abbot's work for the dole and Job Network 15hr jobs fill this brief perfectly.....

                                                            "Long term unemployment hidden: Where an unemployed person undertakes a short bout of employment or subsidised employment and then becomes unemployed again, their term -of unemployment is calculated from the end of the subsidised or short term employment."

                                                            "Their length of unemployment is not calculated back to their last real job. This obscures the real extent of the long term unemployment problem."

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Tristan
                                                            Location
                                                            Melbourne
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 5:49PM
                                                        • Jessica Irvine who once worked for Fairfax Media has this to say :

                                                          "There are a lot of people, mostly childless, wondering why we are paying Mothers to stay at home at all".

                                                          Bloody outrageous.

                                                          A "nanny State".

                                                          And Abbott's supporters are all for "nanny States".

                                                          Aren't they ?

                                                          Commenter
                                                          J. Fraser
                                                          Location
                                                          Queensland
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 21, 2013, 4:25PM
                                                          • I don't know about the 'nanny States' but they've sure got rid of most of the Labor States, only SA and TAS to go.

                                                            Commenter
                                                            SteveH.
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:34PM
                                                          • J CrayCray would prefer the good ol day when Men earned all the income and Women stayed home and prepared Dinner. In JCRAY's perfect world (the 50's) Mothers should only be given Money by their Husbands, and any allowance beyond the absolute minimum wage ruins them completely. Heaven knows they can't manage it!!. Whats Up JCrayCray. Do you really Hate mothers OR are you going through a Mad Man phase at the mo?

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Cwitty
                                                            Location
                                                            Sydney
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:38PM
                                                          • Fraze, Bowen said on Q&A he would pay off the peak gross debt of $380+ BILLION [according to PEFO] by 2023/24.

                                                            That requires a SURPLUS of over $38 BILLION a year for the next decade.

                                                            Care to comment?

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Andie
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:40PM
                                                          • Tony Abbott's usual allies Judith Sloan and former head of the Australian Industry Group Heather Ridout have both rubbished Abbott's parental leave scheme as unaffordable.

                                                            But it's Abbott's "leader's call".

                                                            That's Abbott's euphemism for every time he fails to consult with his own party.

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Tristan
                                                            Location
                                                            Melbourne
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:42PM
                                                          • @"SteveH."

                                                            Is that "obfuscation".

                                                            Someone else had something to say about that earlier ..... then again I might be thinking cut & paste.

                                                            Commenter
                                                            J. Fraser
                                                            Location
                                                            Queensland
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:43PM
                                                          • @"Andie"

                                                            To help with you education try this from an economist :

                                                            http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/we-really-must-talk-about-what-actually-did-save-australia/

                                                            I will always see a glass half full.

                                                            Commenter
                                                            J. Fraser
                                                            Location
                                                            Queensland
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:52PM
                                                          • I wouldn't dream of it, its called having a larf, compliments on using a big word though Fraze.

                                                            Commenter
                                                            SteveH.
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:52PM
                                                        • I suggest tomorrow we play spot the funding shadow. Fraser can cast a worm glow and enlighten everyone.

                                                          Commenter
                                                          Pen of hrba
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 21, 2013, 4:37PM
                                                          • Hi. My name is Kev and I am from Queensland and I am here to help!

                                                            These are my good points!

                                                            I love a hot sausage. (Because I am Australian)

                                                            I love school children. (Because they listen to me)

                                                            I love to hold grudges. (Because I can)

                                                            I love being vindictive and spiteful. (Because it is the Labor Way)

                                                            I am a natural liar (Because I am a Politician)

                                                            I love spending your money. (Because I don't have to work for it)

                                                            I love putting you into hock. Because I don't have to pay it back)

                                                            I love bringing in all the refugees (Because they will vote for me for getting them in)

                                                            I love myself. (Because I am I)

                                                            My bad points

                                                            Sorry I am Perfect! and no you cant have any of the hundreds of millions of dollars me and the wife have tucked away through her business interests (Government Contracts) while you suffer and repay your debit. Don't forget to pay for my pension folksy!

                                                            Commenter
                                                            4Ken
                                                            Location
                                                            Auburn
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:38PM
                                                            • I think that our Prime Minister Kevin Rudd deserves two pensions as he has been Australia's Prime Minister twice.

                                                              Whereas Mr Abbott has one failed attempt at the PMship already and will not win this attempt either!

                                                              Commenter
                                                              Sharron
                                                              Location
                                                              Canberra
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 21, 2013, 4:54PM
                                                            • Um if your Kev why sign off Ken and could you please explain how you repay a debit? You sound more like Joe to me.

                                                              Commenter
                                                              tasch2
                                                              Location
                                                              Mornington Peninsula
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 21, 2013, 4:59PM
                                                            • hahaha
                                                              you forgot to add "Gotta Zip"

                                                              Commenter
                                                              Now you see him
                                                              Location
                                                              Soon you won't
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 21, 2013, 5:02PM
                                                            • Yeah I don't think it was the real Kevin talking about himself either, 300 words wouldn't even get the real Rudd started.

                                                              Commenter
                                                              SteveH.
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 21, 2013, 5:17PM
                                                            • tasch2 That has always been the Labor Problem. How do you pay of a debit?

                                                              Maybe your real name is Wayne Swan
                                                              not tasch2

                                                              Commenter
                                                              4Ken
                                                              Location
                                                              Auburn
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 21, 2013, 5:21PM
                                                            • Kevin and labor do not know how to repay a 'debit'. Labor have never paid off debt in their lives, why would they start now!

                                                              Commenter
                                                              kp
                                                              Location
                                                              brisbane
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 21, 2013, 5:28PM
                                                          • Was I hearing things.

                                                            Heard on the news that Tony Abbott stated that It was good to be at a car company in Brisbane ( Volvo Trucks ) that can stand on it's own two feet.

                                                            Last time I checked you could get very generous tax deductions for a Volvo Truck. Much more generous that a sedan manufactured in SA.

                                                            Has anyone asked Tony today if he is going to sell the nations real estate to property developers in order to balance the budget? There are some great sites especially on Sydney's North Shore!

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Rod
                                                            Location
                                                            the Coast
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:49PM
                                                            • They make busses too. usually bought by large city councils.

                                                              Commenter
                                                              TiredOfSpin
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 21, 2013, 4:58PM
                                                            • Don't know much about Volvo tax exemptions but love your Idea about selling of Crown land to property developers. We could pay off Labors debt and make houses more affordable by increasing supply. Lets hope he gets wind of your Idea... you should write him.

                                                              Commenter
                                                              Cwitty
                                                              Location
                                                              Sydney
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 21, 2013, 5:10PM
                                                          • Englishman Abbotts PPL policy is a TRIPLE WHAMMY...Retirees lose their money,Businesses raise their prices and food goes up and the poor struggling families support Abbotts rich friends!!..WHAT WAS ABBOTT THINKING???

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Steeden
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:54PM
                                                            • Abbott+think...no such thing exists.

                                                              Commenter
                                                              Abbottollah of Arrogance
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 21, 2013, 5:06PM
                                                            • Retirees will very likely lose nothing as this will have very little impact on large companies bottom line, ps where was your outrage when the mining tax and carbon tax ate into dividends?? Are they crickets I hear? There will be no increase in prices as the net effect is no change in tax for companies making over $5m and a 1.5% decrease in tax for all others. In fact prices are more likely to come down. As prices won't rise food won't go up. You are certainly falling hook line and sinker for all the garbage that Labor is feeding you.
                                                              On the other hand this social reform will see mothers across Australia able to spend quality time with their newborn babies, building an invaluable bond without worrying about their livelihood or career.

                                                              Commenter
                                                              Already Reflected
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 21, 2013, 5:07PM
                                                            • He doesn't think, and therein lies the problem.

                                                              Commenter
                                                              GodhelpAussunderAbbott
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 21, 2013, 5:26PM
                                                            • Who is the Englishman Abbott?

                                                              Commenter
                                                              Tony
                                                              Location
                                                              Paddington
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 21, 2013, 5:32PM
                                                            • Who'd know, probably at a North Shore mummsy function and had a thought bubble.
                                                              Well it's backfiring big time. The more it's dissected and the more of his own çallibre speak out, the more idiotic it appears. When his own don't hesitate to speak, well it's flaming obvious.

                                                              Commenter
                                                              A country gal
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 21, 2013, 5:36PM
                                                          • Another perjure doozy:

                                                            "Labor's Regional Resettlement Arrangement is entirely in accordance with Australia's international obligations "
                                                            (Mark Dreyfus).

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Pen of hrba
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 4:57PM
                                                            • I thought you were off researching funding shadows.

                                                              I think you have an addiction - to political blogs. Did you see anything of the beautiful day that was today?

                                                              Commenter
                                                              TiredOfSpin
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 21, 2013, 5:35PM
                                                            • @"TiredOf Spin"

                                                              Nightime in the garden of good and evil ?

                                                              Commenter
                                                              J. Fraser
                                                              Location
                                                              Queensland
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 21, 2013, 6:10PM
                                                          • Have you ever seen a more happier man than Scott Morrison when one of his war refugee boat arrives here..He is so upbeat and has a grin from ear to ear..YUP he really wants those boats to stop!!

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Steeden
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 5:03PM
                                                            • In that case he'll be happy for the next three years if Labor wins.

                                                              Commenter
                                                              SteveH.
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 21, 2013, 6:29PM
                                                          • OK so reading these posts 2 things are clear:

                                                            1. The LNP will make cuts (savings) to pay for things.
                                                            2. The ALP will not cut or make any savings but will keep spending.

                                                            I wonder which one is telling the truth...

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Choices
                                                            Location
                                                            Tough
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 21, 2013, 5:04PM
                                                            • Murdoch's company owns 68% of the Broncos football club.

                                                              Qlds LNP newman government today presented the Broncos club with approximately $5 million worth of public land.

                                                              Abbott visited the Broncos club today.

                                                              Tonight's debate will be at the Murdoch 68% owned Broncos club.

                                                              Tonights debate is billed as exclusive to Sky ... which Murdoch owns 50% of.

                                                              Wonder why Murdoch isn't Tweeting his happiness ?

                                                              Commenter
                                                              J. Fraser
                                                              Location
                                                              Queensland
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 21, 2013, 5:13PM
                                                              • Whats worse is that Abbott will probably Rudd 100% after tonight.

                                                                Never mind Kevin is still young enough, I'm sure Terease can still find him job, even if it is only licking the envelopes in the mail room.

                                                                Commenter
                                                                SteveH.
                                                                Date and time
                                                                August 21, 2013, 5:52PM
                                                            • Rudd only has to eat one more sanga before the people's forum, get made a poor cup of tea and then get a curly, on the spot question from a disgruntled voter about huge debt, deaths at sea, open borders and hair brain policies and the real Kevin will go off like Krakatoa spewing ash and lava all over Brisbane. Be warned, it won't be pretty so put the kids and elderly with a medical condition to bed early.

                                                              Commenter
                                                              enough is enough
                                                              Location
                                                              Labor party La La Land
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 21, 2013, 5:17PM
                                                              • Hello Jacqueline,

                                                                Daniel Hurst (from Queensland's Bris Times) always writes good articles (no blushing now Daniel).

                                                                Always has been talk of undemocratic behaviour at Wikileaks.

                                                                Daniels article puts meat on the bone.

                                                                Commenter
                                                                J. Fraser
                                                                Location
                                                                Queensland
                                                                Date and time
                                                                August 21, 2013, 5:18PM
                                                                • Don't say it to loud. (Meat on the bone) Kev may move from loving a sausage eating the meat on your bone!

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  4Ken
                                                                  Location
                                                                  Auburn
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 21, 2013, 6:11PM
                                                                • Now explain the democracy in Labor and Coalition lies?

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  Pen of hrba
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 21, 2013, 6:27PM
                                                              • When Joe Hockey has no idea about how to fund his policies (which is always), he says "50,60 or 70".

                                                                On Abbott's parental leave.....

                                                                "JOE HOCKEY: Well it's going to be the 3,000 largest companies.

                                                                NEIL MITCHELL: What percentage of the money do they provide?

                                                                JOE HOCKEY: Well the 3,000 - well 100 per cent.

                                                                SABRA LANE: That's not right, and the Shadow Treasurer Joe Hockey corrected himself quickly, but he was challenged again on the details of what companies will pay.

                                                                NEIL MITCHELL: So what's the percentage, roughly?

                                                                JOE HOCKEY: Well it has to be at least 50 or 60 per cent, 60 or 70 per cent. But I'm not going to speculate Neil because it is - I haven't got the numbers in front of me, in a car."

                                                                “Coalition fumbles over parental leave funding”
                                                                (ABC radio PM transcript 19 Aug 2013)
                                                                www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2013/s3828937.htm

                                                                On Coalition spending cuts....

                                                                "CHRIS UHLMANN: You said the other day you could find $70 billion worth of cuts if you had to. Could you?

                                                                JOE HOCKEY: I didn't say 70 billion...

                                                                CHRIS UHLMANN: You said "50, 60, 70 billion..."

                                                                "Joe Hockey discusses the budget"
                                                                (7.30 16 Aug 2011)
                                                                www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2011/s3295026.htm

                                                                Commenter
                                                                Tristan
                                                                Location
                                                                Melbourne
                                                                Date and time
                                                                August 21, 2013, 5:27PM
                                                                • At all elections former PMs come out and support their parties. Kevin must really be despised by Hawke, Keating and Gillard as we are yet to hear a good word (any word) from them. Not to mention Swan, Conroy, Garret etc. and even Oakeshott and Windsor. The silence is deafening Kevin.

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  Isenz
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 21, 2013, 5:39PM
                                                                    • This is rubbish. Hawke and Keating have been out and about with Kevin, and giving talks everywhere. What planet have you been on for the past three weeks?

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Thisis Earth
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 21, 2013, 6:21PM
                                                                    • And Malcolm Fraser isn't even a Liberal Party member now...

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Sync
                                                                      Location
                                                                      Victoria
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 21, 2013, 7:44PM
                                                                  • "Supporters outside ahead of the People's forum with Prime Minister Kevin Rudd and Opposition"

                                                                    Looks like those dogs planning to give Kevin the same treatment as the electorate, how spooky is that.

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    SteveH.
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    August 21, 2013, 6:10PM
                                                                    • Love the pictures of the curious beagles assesses Rudd's chances of winning.

                                                                      Please tell us the truth. Did the beagles do to Rudd what he has done to all of us?

                                                                      Or was the sigh to high?

                                                                      Andrew Meares please show us!

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      4Ken
                                                                      Location
                                                                      Auburn
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 21, 2013, 6:21PM
                                                                      • "I'd be interested to know what you think will be the strategies of the two leaders tonight."

                                                                        To say as little as possible on account that 39% of Abbott's statements are porkies and more so with Rudd's according to PolitiFact.

                                                                        In fact they both would be advised to wing it in case the truth comes out.

                                                                        Abbott's stance:

                                                                        "The world is moving away from carbon taxes and emissions trading schemes."

                                                                        "The carbon tax is adding $400 to the cost of every car manufactured in Australia."

                                                                        Are typical Abbott lies as shown by PolitiFact.

                                                                        Then we have Rudd telling half porkies:

                                                                        "The primary reason for the hike in electricity prices appears to be the current system of national electricity regulation."

                                                                        "The truth is, with the ending of the decade-long mining boom, we face new economic challenges."

                                                                        Should they stumble and tell the truth the trick is to pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened.

                                                                        For example:

                                                                        “Many countries practised the forging of passports for intelligence operations, including Australia” (J. B.).

                                                                        “I have no knowledge of any Australian authority forging any passports of any nation” (J. B.).

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Pen of hrba
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        August 21, 2013, 6:23PM
                                                                        • Didn't anyone tell Abbott that he could walk in front of Rudd.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          J. Fraser
                                                                          Location
                                                                          Queensland
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          August 21, 2013, 6:41PM
                                                                          • He didn't walk in front of him as the second camera angle clearly showed but Abbott did say "shut up". They were there to talk and Rudd rang rings around him. Tony was very nervous and out of depth. His only argument was "ain't Labor awful?" Thats an opinion not a debating point. It was a knockout to Rudd and the bell rang when Abbott rudely said shut up. Rudd was there to talk and shut up is not an argument. But it was old and feisty... and just plain rude.

                                                                            Commenter
                                                                            Conrad
                                                                            Location
                                                                            Darwin
                                                                            Date and time
                                                                            August 21, 2013, 7:57PM
                                                                          • I would say by telling Rudd to "shut up " just highlights the fact, and the audience agreed, that Rudd is talk.

                                                                            Commenter
                                                                            Martin Says
                                                                            Date and time
                                                                            August 21, 2013, 8:11PM
                                                                        • Didn't anyone tell Abbott not to butt in.

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          J. Fraser
                                                                          Location
                                                                          Queensland
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          August 21, 2013, 6:42PM
                                                                          • First question and Rudd is already lying:

                                                                            "As health minister Tony Abbott "took $1 billion out of hospital funding for the states".

                                                                            PolitFact found this statement totally false.

                                                                            Commenter
                                                                            Pen of hrba
                                                                            Date and time
                                                                            August 21, 2013, 6:43PM
                                                                            • You sound surprised that Rudd would continue to peddle that misrepresentation of the truth. I'm surprised that you're surprised. Leopards and spots spring to mind

                                                                              Commenter
                                                                              Ian
                                                                              Location
                                                                              Fremantle
                                                                              Date and time
                                                                              August 21, 2013, 7:07PM
                                                                            • Why would I be surprised? I have been branding them both as liars throughout the campaign?

                                                                              Commenter
                                                                              Pen of hrba
                                                                              Date and time
                                                                              August 21, 2013, 7:37PM
                                                                          • Why was the Broncos club given $5 million of public land by Abbott's little mate newman ... they are the most profitable club in the League.

                                                                            And Murdoch owns 68% of the club the debate is being held in.

                                                                            Commenter
                                                                            J. Fraser
                                                                            Location
                                                                            Queensland
                                                                            Date and time
                                                                            August 21, 2013, 6:49PM
                                                                            • J.Fraser, What a great businessman is Murdoch owning 68% of a great club. It is a pity the Labor hacks don't have the same skills, instead of racking up a huge debt.
                                                                              Now you are really desperate, and envious.

                                                                              Commenter
                                                                              thepres
                                                                              Date and time
                                                                              August 21, 2013, 7:15PM
                                                                            • You should ask Frase for some hot stockmarket tips, take it from me his fingers are still in bandages.

                                                                              Commenter
                                                                              SteveH.
                                                                              Date and time
                                                                              August 21, 2013, 7:21PM
                                                                            • Wow. Fraser that has got be the national interest comment of the week if not the election campaign. Go the Bronco's, err who are they?

                                                                              Commenter
                                                                              Pen of hrba
                                                                              Date and time
                                                                              August 21, 2013, 7:48PM
                                                                          • So far all GenY asking questions - and this is supposed to be a cross section of 'swinging' voters. C'mon please!!

                                                                            Commenter
                                                                            Magwitch
                                                                            Location
                                                                            Briz
                                                                            Date and time
                                                                            August 21, 2013, 6:56PM
                                                                            • Shame for Rudd he didn't put in this performance in debate 1. He's not waffling, he's got a sharp message, and he has Abbott rattled and looking far from Prime Minsterial (telling Rudd to shut up, really?)

                                                                              I can't wait to see the usual suspects complain how Sky News are biased to the left for the choice of questioners.

                                                                              PS: Tony, Malcolm Fraser is to the left of Rudd, let alone you.

                                                                              Commenter
                                                                              Arky
                                                                              Date and time
                                                                              August 21, 2013, 7:14PM
                                                                              • Arky, are you watching the same program as the rest of us.
                                                                                Rudd is still waffling and waving his arms around.

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                thepres
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                August 21, 2013, 7:26PM
                                                                              • Agree Arky...but I think this sort of debate is much more suited to Rudd. His quicker mind and superior speaking voice shines through more in this less formal format. Oh, have you ever seen a Lib leader less suited to PM role? I haven't.

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                Passionfruit
                                                                                Location
                                                                                Sydney
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                August 21, 2013, 7:44PM
                                                                            • Is there anyone older than 25 in this so called 'swinging' voters audience. Where did they find them!!

                                                                              Commenter
                                                                              Magwitch
                                                                              Location
                                                                              Briz
                                                                              Date and time
                                                                              August 21, 2013, 7:15PM
                                                                              • Not one assertive question to Abbott withholding funding costs. There is one issue that governs every single issue: climate change. What have we learned sweet nothing. It is all one orchestrated pathetic joke.

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                Pen of hrba
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                August 21, 2013, 7:34PM
                                                                            • Rudd is lying through his back teeth on emissions. All of our emissions have dramatically increased in line with increased coal production and population increase.

                                                                              Commenter
                                                                              Pen of hrba
                                                                              Date and time
                                                                              August 21, 2013, 7:18PM
                                                                              • Pen, I don't think that rates on the Rudd scale of lies (RSoL), he's just spend two years telling us all how he didn't want to be PM again.

                                                                                And yet here are.

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                SteveH.
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                August 21, 2013, 7:28PM
                                                                              • You should get a censure
                                                                                For speaking through your denture!

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                Poet Laureate
                                                                                Location
                                                                                Sydney
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                August 21, 2013, 7:36PM
                                                                              • Rudd said that electricity emissions have fallen......indeed they have...."The latest data from the Australian Energy Market operator suggests that emissions from electricity generation have fallen by about 8.6 per cent in the first six months of the year."

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                JT
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                August 21, 2013, 7:58PM
                                                                              • Steve

                                                                                I find it extremely difficult to understand why people do not comprehend that climate change is by far the most important issue. Clearly when the climate goes as predicted all of the other issues wont be worth a speck of coal dust.

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                Pen of hrba
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                August 21, 2013, 7:59PM
                                                                              • Pen, You say Rudd is lying?
                                                                                From what I've seen from the energy sector there has been a decrease in energy consumption but since you are making the assertion can you please show some evidence to back up your claim.

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                Mark C
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                August 21, 2013, 8:11PM
                                                                              • JT

                                                                                Grow up JT. How the hell can emissions be decreasing, it is impossible for emissions to decrease. Look population growth is one million every 2.59 years, at 10869 KWH per capita that's an extra 10.869 billion KWH per million people. At 2000KWH per tonne of coal means 5.43 million extra tonnes of coal. At 2.86 tonnes of emissions for each tonne of coal the extra million people produce 15.54 million tonnes in emissions from extra power production alone.

                                                                                Stop talking nonsense. What they are saying is gobbledygook for the likes of people who cannot be bothered to do the maths.

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                Pen of hrba
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                August 21, 2013, 8:20PM
                                                                              • Pen, your problem is you have this absurd notion that rational thought processes have significant influence on human affairs.

                                                                                Unfortunately there is not a lot of historical evidence for that claim.

                                                                                As Max Shirer made clear in his tract The Ego and its Own in the 19th Century, human beings are basically ruled by abstract ideals that are little more than spooks or ghosts.

                                                                                You should start to realise that only semi-rational responses are ever possible in the practical sense.

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                SteveH.
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                August 21, 2013, 8:27PM
                                                                              • pen, you are quite tiresome with your 'grow up' statements when someone says something that you don't agree with or better said, when someone says something that you don't know about. Rudd said that electricity emissions were down...not total emissions...therefore he is not lying. The lower demand for electricity and delivery of cleaner electricity have meant that due to a combination of factors overall emissions in the National Electricity Market are down from around 88.9 to 81.3 million tonnes in the first six months of this year. This is a decline of 8.6 per cent or around 7.6 million tonnes of carbon. Suck it up princess!

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                JT
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                August 21, 2013, 8:56PM
                                                                              • ps....go and read the National Energy Market Operator reports ...its all in there....the real figures...not your own made-up ones.

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                JT
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                August 21, 2013, 9:08PM
                                                                            • Im currently 3ft from the tv screen watching the little talk (debate) in the Tv. Rudd has pretty much cinceeded his demise. Its a pity he just didnt stay demised before this next demise but I think his ego will be satisfied when he loses because in fact he rolled Julia !
                                                                              I was going to make some other point but ive forgotten what it is !

                                                                              Commenter
                                                                              Zumadog
                                                                              Date and time
                                                                              August 21, 2013, 7:23PM
                                                                              • My name is Chris. There have been 3 Chris' s so far who have stood up &asked a questiin !
                                                                                Chris ' s rule !

                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                Vic Rhodes
                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                August 21, 2013, 7:24PM
                                                                                • Can't believe Abbott thought it was a good idea to attack Rudd for not passing the ETS. Or call himself a conservationist, come to that. Its obvious he is insincere about the environment.

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  Arky
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  August 21, 2013, 7:25PM
                                                                                  • Dead right, the man is an environmental thug.

                                                                                    Commenter
                                                                                    Pen of hrba
                                                                                    Date and time
                                                                                    August 21, 2013, 7:50PM
                                                                                  • If Rudd had any guts and believe that climate change was the greatest moral challenge of out time, he would have gone for a double dissolution. But Rudd has no guts, he flip flops from one mess to another. The same as Gay marriage, if Rudd was so concerned, he should have said a vote for me is a vote for gay marriage and taken it to caucus, like Gillard did with the carbon tax, Rudd is a fraud.

                                                                                    Commenter
                                                                                    Martin Says
                                                                                    Location
                                                                                    Canberra
                                                                                    Date and time
                                                                                    August 21, 2013, 8:04PM
                                                                                  • I nearly choked on my savi blanc when Abbott crapped on about bush walking.
                                                                                    he probably takes a machete or a bulldozer with him whilst being so zen. Whacking down any endangered species in his path. Phoney Tony will say anything to get those keys.

                                                                                    Commenter
                                                                                    A country gal
                                                                                    Date and time
                                                                                    August 21, 2013, 8:04PM
                                                                                • We cannot " build for a future " Kevin on money we don't have because you have spent it all!

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  AM
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  August 21, 2013, 7:32PM
                                                                                  • @"AM"

                                                                                    Good to see you understand that Australia cannot afford to pay Mothers $75,000 to have a baby.

                                                                                    And I don't care if Bronny Bishop and Julia Bishop do want to have one.

                                                                                    We just cannot afford it.

                                                                                    Commenter
                                                                                    J. Fraser
                                                                                    Location
                                                                                    Queensland
                                                                                    Date and time
                                                                                    August 21, 2013, 7:44PM
                                                                                  • Im only a Gen-Y so I obviously have no idea, but doesn't inflationary policy usually result in increased government spending?

                                                                                    Commenter
                                                                                    IntertemporalYouth
                                                                                    Location
                                                                                    Melbourne
                                                                                    Date and time
                                                                                    August 21, 2013, 7:55PM
                                                                                  • AM: Because the global economy went down the plughole and it was right and proper to run sensible deficits to stimulate the economy. Even Hockey admits that.

                                                                                    Spending tens of billions without announcing what will be cut to pay for it - THAT is something we don't have the money for.

                                                                                    Commenter
                                                                                    Arky
                                                                                    Date and time
                                                                                    August 21, 2013, 7:57PM
                                                                                  • Least Kevin values the future. Despite how Tony tries to be new age and when he gaffes says it's a dad moment- he undeniably lives in the past.
                                                                                    I just can't comprehend he is my age. Whenever I see/hear him I can't help but think what sort of teenager/young adult he must've been.
                                                                                    He makes me feel sick, sorry for my honesty but he does, he makes me cringe.

                                                                                    Commenter
                                                                                    A country gal
                                                                                    Date and time
                                                                                    August 21, 2013, 8:09PM
                                                                                • "I like you both!" he tells the leaders."

                                                                                  As Deng Xao Peng put it:

                                                                                  "He's lying".

                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                  SteveH.
                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                  August 21, 2013, 7:35PM
                                                                                  • LOL Tony got rattled and asked Rudd to shut up

                                                                                    Commenter
                                                                                    Simon
                                                                                    Location
                                                                                    Sydney
                                                                                    Date and time
                                                                                    August 21, 2013, 7:38PM
                                                                                    • Great job Abbott - Kev won't even tell us if he'll turn up for next week's debate..

                                                                                      Rudd was particularly dodgy on issues like the bank tax, 457's and said pretty much nothing about his track record.

                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                      Hacka
                                                                                      Location
                                                                                      Canberra
                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                      August 21, 2013, 7:39PM
                                                                                      • I only saw the closing speeches and have to confess that Tony didn't do himself any favours by passive aggressively running the exact scare campaign he derided Kevin for.

                                                                                        Commenter
                                                                                        Kane
                                                                                        Date and time
                                                                                        August 21, 2013, 7:39PM
                                                                                        • Well given this was Rudds supposed heartland Abbott held his own. I never thought I'd find it more difficult to listen to anyone as I did with Gillard but smarmy fake Rudd even surpasses that.

                                                                                          Commenter
                                                                                          Magwitch
                                                                                          Location
                                                                                          Briz
                                                                                          Date and time
                                                                                          August 21, 2013, 7:40PM
                                                                                          • If anyone thinks Abbott won that debate, we should be mining for the rocks in their head!

                                                                                            Seriously folks, I can't believe anyone would prefer Abbott to Rudd as PM. Even my rusted-on Lib relatives agree that Abbott ain't PM material. Tonight proved it yet again.

                                                                                            Commenter
                                                                                            Passionfruit
                                                                                            Location
                                                                                            Sydney
                                                                                            Date and time
                                                                                            August 21, 2013, 7:40PM
                                                                                            • English boat immigrant Abbott was CLEARLY RATTLED by saying "doesnt he ever shut up"!!...Well Tone if you cant handle the hard questions you shouldnt be there!!!..Round 2 to RUDD by a K.O.

                                                                                              Commenter
                                                                                              Steeden
                                                                                              Date and time
                                                                                              August 21, 2013, 7:41PM
                                                                                              • Hahaha, just a matter of interpretation - I thought the exact opposite - KR was rattled - my god, this guy waffles and waffles and lies. Tell me guys, the $1b question - the FactChecker has said it's a lie - how come the PM of Australia is allowed to repeat this lie - shows his character, doesn't it?

                                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                                ET
                                                                                                Location
                                                                                                Lakesland
                                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                                August 21, 2013, 8:36PM
                                                                                            • Looking forward to some sketches/cartoons from the House of Murdoch debate.

                                                                                              Step up
                                                                                              Step up
                                                                                              A sucker born every minute

                                                                                              Read all about it in Queensland's only statewide daily paper .

                                                                                              Commenter
                                                                                              J. Fraser
                                                                                              Location
                                                                                              Queensland
                                                                                              Date and time
                                                                                              August 21, 2013, 7:42PM
                                                                                              • Easy victory to Rudd. He was spot on with figures and ready with relevant answers.
                                                                                                What kind of opposition tells the Prime Minister of Australia to "shut up"?
                                                                                                Honestly Tont- another gaffe!

                                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                                Conrad
                                                                                                Location
                                                                                                Darwin
                                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                                August 21, 2013, 7:45PM
                                                                                                • The test analyst who asked the question about 457 visa workers weren't pointing out the problem of the 457 workers but how Liberal or Labour would invest in Aust IT resources to compete with global IT professionals.
                                                                                                  For the existing professional in IT, who can really afford $900 ~ $2400 per day training? Does anyone care about the IT education?

                                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                                  Australian IT professional
                                                                                                  Location
                                                                                                  Hornsby
                                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                                  August 21, 2013, 7:52PM
                                                                                                  • Not one question on the NBN either.

                                                                                                    Commenter
                                                                                                    A country gal
                                                                                                    Date and time
                                                                                                    August 21, 2013, 8:15PM
                                                                                                • "Does this guy ever shut up?"

                                                                                                  Asking the obvious is the best way to describe the question.

                                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                                  SteveH.
                                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                                  August 21, 2013, 7:53PM
                                                                                                  • So Mr Positive Rudd spends the majority of his closing remarks talking about State politics and conspiracy theories about whatc Abbott might do. He finishes with a token waffle for a few seconds about a positive future. Pathetic!!!
                                                                                                    In comparison Abbott highlights this pathetic attempt and talks openly and candidly about specific policy points, some that will be unpopular, and about his team. You may not like everything Abbott says or does but he is a hell of a lot better than the meglomaniac Rudd. Rudd even has the gall to say Abbott will only release his costings the day before the election, something he did himself in 2007.

                                                                                                    Commenter
                                                                                                    Already Reflected
                                                                                                    Date and time
                                                                                                    August 21, 2013, 7:53PM
                                                                                                    • Arrogance always equals Rudd

                                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                                      davey street
                                                                                                      Location
                                                                                                      lane cove
                                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                                      August 21, 2013, 8:05PM
                                                                                                      • It doesn't really matter what Rudd and Abbott say tonight or whenever...everyone here has made their mind up long ago...thank the universe we all only get one vote each. If sea levels are rising by 8.3mm per year, and will keep going up, all this talk here on this blog is totally huff and puff just like Tony and Kevin. Nothing will happen that's worth anything from both of them.

                                                                                                        Commenter
                                                                                                        JT
                                                                                                        Date and time
                                                                                                        August 21, 2013, 8:06PM
                                                                                                        • I wonder if Julia was watching, boy it would be a tough call for her to know which one she hated the most.

                                                                                                          Sneaking suspicion its Kevin Potter.

                                                                                                          Commenter
                                                                                                          SteveH.
                                                                                                          Date and time
                                                                                                          August 21, 2013, 8:08PM
                                                                                                            • Or D.Speers - representing that nasty Rupert.

                                                                                                              Commenter
                                                                                                              Hacka
                                                                                                              Location
                                                                                                              Canberra
                                                                                                              Date and time
                                                                                                              August 21, 2013, 8:14PM
                                                                                                            • Tony Rudd or Kevin Abbott would run a close tie.

                                                                                                              Commenter
                                                                                                              A country gal
                                                                                                              Date and time
                                                                                                              August 21, 2013, 8:29PM
                                                                                                          • Though I had switched to SBS by accident seeing Mr Garrison aka Kevin Rudd on the screen.

                                                                                                            He was lacking in detail I must admit.

                                                                                                            No sausage in his mouth.

                                                                                                            No sausage in his hand.

                                                                                                            No school Children to be seen.

                                                                                                            Hair adhesive secured to his head was visible though!

                                                                                                            Tony should have said put a sausage in it!

                                                                                                            Commenter
                                                                                                            4Ken
                                                                                                            Location
                                                                                                            Auburn
                                                                                                            Date and time
                                                                                                            August 21, 2013, 8:12PM
                                                                                                            • I watched it and was still bored.

                                                                                                              the problem is - debates forums blah will not determine who "wins".

                                                                                                              Most of my voter mates could not give a rats about abbott or rudd.

                                                                                                              they just seem to hate labor no matter what garbage either of them spill.

                                                                                                              my guess is that most of the country feel the same way and we will get abbott "by default"

                                                                                                              enjoy .

                                                                                                              Commenter
                                                                                                              paul
                                                                                                              Location
                                                                                                              home
                                                                                                              Date and time
                                                                                                              August 21, 2013, 8:15PM
                                                                                                              • I agree that you can't money you simply don't have and living within your means is a no brainer, like all households have to. At some point you have to start paying it back and this is the issue with Labor

                                                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                                                mtbiker
                                                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                                                August 21, 2013, 8:16PM
                                                                                                                • Had to laugh when Abbott accused Rudd of running and scare campaign, Abbott's been doing that for the last 6 years, Hypocrite

                                                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                                                  Bigus
                                                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                                                  August 21, 2013, 8:16PM
                                                                                                                  • The featured comment should be Abbott's "Does this bloke ever shutup?

                                                                                                                    Commenter
                                                                                                                    Lewis
                                                                                                                    Location
                                                                                                                    Sydney
                                                                                                                    Date and time
                                                                                                                    August 21, 2013, 8:22PM
                                                                                                                    • No obvious winner but Rudd is Definetly more personable. Abbott just tries too hard and lies.
                                                                                                                      Conservationist yeh right. But what does he like conserving? Fruit and turning it into Jam- nup that's woman's work.
                                                                                                                      Conservative Politics is as close as he gets except for his absurd PPL which I can only think of as elitist. There that's, it conserving elitists!

                                                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                                                      A country gal
                                                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                                                      August 21, 2013, 8:27PM
                                                                                                                      • As a Country gal, you obviously think being more personable means speaking through pursed lips and calling everyone folks. As for telling lies, I'd say Rudd didnt mind telling a few fabricated stories as well. And obviously you must be in the group who think it is fine for Public servants to get paid parental leave but not those in the private sector. Personally I don't agree with half the extras that people get,( you dont get it on the country farm,) but what is good for one group should be good for all. .

                                                                                                                        Commenter
                                                                                                                        ruddy hell
                                                                                                                        Date and time
                                                                                                                        August 21, 2013, 9:00PM
                                                                                                                    • Good one Mr Abbott to have the debate at a sport club and to avoid journalists' questions and access by pinko-leftie ABC viewers. Is cutting ABC 2 out a preview of things to come?

                                                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                                                      Ash
                                                                                                                      Location
                                                                                                                      Newcastle
                                                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                                                      August 21, 2013, 8:34PM
                                                                                                                      • Oh definitely don't want any other than right wing coverage. The ABC will come undr the usual Liberal attack and plans are underfoot to privatise it.

                                                                                                                        Commenter
                                                                                                                        barbec2
                                                                                                                        Date and time
                                                                                                                        August 21, 2013, 8:43PM
                                                                                                                    • I have waited for Abbott to put out his costings and I thought tonight would be it. As an undecided voter I feel I cant risk someone who is so secretive. Mr Abbott you are asking us to be our next PM but wont tell us what nasties you have in store. I am staying with the devil we know and will be voting ALP.

                                                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                                                      Peter
                                                                                                                      Location
                                                                                                                      Sydney
                                                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                                                      August 21, 2013, 8:40PM
                                                                                                                      • Did the people who voted here actually watch the debate?

                                                                                                                        At the point where Tony asked if Kevin ever shuts up the debate was over. Thanks Mr Abbott for showing us the depth of your character yet again. My vote gone!

                                                                                                                        Commenter
                                                                                                                        Richard
                                                                                                                        Location
                                                                                                                        West Pennant Hills
                                                                                                                        Date and time
                                                                                                                        August 21, 2013, 8:40PM
                                                                                                                        • Wow, this sites poll has been hit by Liberal astro turfing.

                                                                                                                          Commenter
                                                                                                                          Bob Evans
                                                                                                                          Location
                                                                                                                          Brisbane
                                                                                                                          Date and time
                                                                                                                          August 21, 2013, 8:46PM
                                                                                                                          • Great article which made me laugh...so good to have humour at this time! Well done Jacqueline!

                                                                                                                            Commenter
                                                                                                                            Gillipops
                                                                                                                            Date and time
                                                                                                                            August 21, 2013, 8:47PM
                                                                                                                            • I think these forums are helpful to view.
                                                                                                                              The politicians are 'unplugged' compared to the usual face-off in a journalist interview.

                                                                                                                              The questioners ask some interesting questions. The answers are less confected than usual. The body language of the politicians is surprising.

                                                                                                                              Much better than Q & A where every man and their dog and Tony Jones put in their two bobs worth.

                                                                                                                              Commenter
                                                                                                                              yys
                                                                                                                              Date and time
                                                                                                                              August 21, 2013, 8:54PM
                                                                                                                              • Always good to read the comments of the leftie/Greens SMH demographic which provide a reverse indicator of who won the debate and is likely to win the election.

                                                                                                                                Commenter
                                                                                                                                obesenation
                                                                                                                                Date and time
                                                                                                                                August 21, 2013, 8:58PM
                                                                                                                                • Abbott might cause a few problems for Auss if he meets the US President and in the course of the conversation says "Does this guy ever SHUT up"?

                                                                                                                                  Commenter
                                                                                                                                  Future PM Material
                                                                                                                                  Date and time
                                                                                                                                  August 21, 2013, 9:00PM
                                                                                                                                  • gotta zip, time to send an email to Clive. An email of encouragement and praise for his anticipated titanic bombshell tomorrow.
                                                                                                                                    Finally some real life excitement!

                                                                                                                                    Commenter
                                                                                                                                    A country gal
                                                                                                                                    Date and time
                                                                                                                                    August 21, 2013, 9:09PM
                                                                                                                                    • This has turned into an episode of Big Brother than a genuine debate about issues. The online poll suggests that the right wing have come out in force to inflate the numbers in Abbott's favour or viewers preferred the shallower over the shallow. Has politics really gotten so inane? Is 2013 going to be worse than 1975 and 1996 put together? Pity my country?

                                                                                                                                      Commenter
                                                                                                                                      Con
                                                                                                                                      Location
                                                                                                                                      Coogee
                                                                                                                                      Date and time
                                                                                                                                      August 21, 2013, 9:13PM
                                                                                                                                      Comments are now closed