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Politics Live: August 28, 2014

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A khaki question time

Labor attempts to wrong foot the government on national security during Thursday's question time, focusing on cuts to the Australian War Memorial. Chris Hammer reports.

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  • Well we know Hawke and Keating were always at each other’s throats, now it’s each other’s swords. But it’s all relative isn’t it - Hawkie has laid his sword bare for judgement – Keating hasn’t as far as we can tell.

    So he may scoff about Hawkie’s sword, but if he only brings a dagger to the party himself, perhaps he shouldn’t have risen to the occasion of making comment.

    Besides, Keating seems like the type who’d always claim the pen is mightier than the sword.

    Commenter
    Hacka
    Location
    Canberra
    Date and time
    August 28, 2014, 9:07AM
    • Must be hard to come up with gems of wisdom if you have to post about Hawke & Keating in order to get your name on the page. No comments on whether Ms WA will be the next leader ? Or whether Smoking has lost his mojo ? Or if all will be forgiven amd Mal will do a "Johnny" and arise from the ashes ?

      Commenter
      Ho Hum
      Date and time
      August 28, 2014, 9:34AM
    • Hacka, I have just called Geneva and reported you for crimes against analogies. That was cruel and unusual treatment.

      Commenter
      Immal
      Date and time
      August 28, 2014, 9:41AM
    • Spin and deflect, Hawke and Keating had their issues but all in all they ran a good government. This so called united blokey team are an absolute mess full of gaffs, history will not be kind to his one term!

      Commenter
      Get Real
      Date and time
      August 28, 2014, 9:50AM
    • What was Geneva's response Immal ?

      Commenter
      Hacka
      Location
      Canberra
      Date and time
      August 28, 2014, 10:17AM
    • They were not only good leaders they were interesting characters as well, you could hardly say that about the present bunch.

      Commenter
      Amro
      Date and time
      August 28, 2014, 12:39PM
  • The Free marketeers have swallowed the business jargon book in relation to higher education.

    Commenter
    Daniel
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    August 28, 2014, 9:17AM
    • Id love to know where the free education in this country went under Whitlam? How can anyone interested in a degree possibly afford one unless they are unemployed or very wealthy? There is nothing for the middle ground workers?It sux!!!

      Commenter
      Daniel
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 28, 2014, 9:23AM
      • .....well...you and I are paying for about 60% of their degrees right now....ever heard of the 'user pays' system??

        Commenter
        Sick of the left
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 3:24PM
      • Pity we can't all have the smarts to get a scholarship on "merit"

        Commenter
        Blue Tie Dodgy
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 3:48PM
      • ....ummm....if you were listening you would have heard that ANYONE can access to a loan...that you pay back later. What part of that are you struggling with (I can't draw a picture here to help you).

        Commenter
        Sick of the left
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 4:06PM
      • sick of the left.. wat a load of rubbish.. why not use figures like 80% or 90%..just more thought bubbles from the most incompetent and government in history. how embarrassing it must be

        Commenter
        sick of the luvvies
        Location
        melbourne
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 4:09PM
      • Sick of the Left how did you get your education or didn't you get one? I believe taxpayers should be paying 100% of their degrees just like we used to, it made us not only the Lucky Country but also one of the best educated, definitely not like now.

        Commenter
        RTP
        Location
        Sawtell
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 4:33PM
      • That is the figure quoted re subsidies. I don't understand your outrage...it's subsidised by taxpayers - that's the point !

        Commenter
        Sick of the left
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 4:49PM
      • Sick of the Left:

        ['...ever heard of the 'user pays' system??']

        Care to inform whether you hold a degree, and, if so, who paid for it?

        The fact is, Pyne's so-called tertiary education reforms of deregulation and the imposing the long-term bond interest rate are inequitable, vastly favouring the cohort you, as judged by your screen persona and posts, belong to.

        Commenter
        Jason of Gold Coast (aka: sick of the right)
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 4:49PM
      • ...ummm....sure.... Masters and Bachelor's Degree...paid with HECS and then paid that off over a number of years. Also enjoyed paying my compulsory Student union Fees and watching Union Reps pay for party's and protests that i didn't agree with.

        Commenter
        Sick of the left
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 5:59PM
    • If the Government had really been listening to the views from across the community they should have died of shame by now.
      Or honoured one of Abbotts promises of calling a DD, which we know will never happen.

      Commenter
      mirrorsofsmoke
      Location
      sydney
      Date and time
      August 28, 2014, 9:30AM
      • So, step up to the plate Clive and put the country out of its misery. Block supply!

        Commenter
        Save us PUP
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 1:17PM
      • Block supply.....really? That is your solution? muppet..

        Commenter
        Paul
        Location
        brisbane
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 3:07PM
      • Are you on the same planet, the Shorten and his lot left us with this mess, you don’t like the coalition’s plan to fix it unless you still get every benefit but you won’t blame the root cause of the problem, and, in what have to be the most dim-witted wish, you want Shorten and his circus back? Anyone voting for the labor party, should they be successful, god forbid, should seriously be charged with criminal negligence because it will be the blow that breaks the country, god knows they did their best to do it in their last disastrous term. We need to swallow the bitter pill that labor made for us all and accept a responsible budget.

        Commenter
        Peter G
        Location
        Drummoyne
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 3:11PM
      • I am under some misapprehension that Abbott may have perceived a DD for something of a woman's endowment so thus manifest his ambivalence to show any enthusiasm for it.

        Commenter
        Postgirl
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 3:37PM
    • Why does Pyne put on glasses when talking about education.He tries to look intelligent, and then he opens his mouth and the disconnect is plainly obvious.

      Commenter
      Dr Bombay
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      August 28, 2014, 9:32AM
      • bravo Dr bravo indeed

        Commenter
        pdaddy1703
        Location
        central coast
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 9:57AM
    • So Federal funding of education is to be extended to private colleges . . . . it would be even better for your pocket if the school would find some money on your behalf

      Commenter
      MST
      Date and time
      August 28, 2014, 9:41AM
      • There's a certain Design college that invested $60,000 to support the new eligibility criteria and policy.

        Commenter
        A country gal
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 11:45AM
      • Very civic minded of them ACG - to assist poor students in attending school and not burdening them with huge debts in the future. The LNP would be impressed.

        Commenter
        MST
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 11:56AM
      • Yes MST, so civic minded that they've further invested and given a worthy student a job.

        Commenter
        A country gal
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 12:11PM
      • Just goes to prove that "worthy" is all about the Old (Blue Tie) Boy network - who you know not what you know.

        Commenter
        MST
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 12:16PM
      • Abolish all fee schemes including HECS. Education for all!

        Commenter
        Homage to Catalonia
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 1:07PM
    • Basically all Pyne is doing with universities is the same as Abbottism has done with pensioners and those on welfare: cut funding and leave them out to dry?

      With cuts in funding universities will have no choice other than to increase student fees, increase parking fees and rents on retail outlets on campus, increase book costs and course guide costs, and cut back on course choices, reduce staff, and inhibit maintenance programs. The result will be a return to the 1950’s when only those with financial means could receive a university education.

      Basically Abbottism is creating a class structure of inequality once again designed to deprive the working class. It will eventuate an acute shortage of Australians entering professions with the obvious results. Despite all the evidence from the best economic bodies in the world Abbottism is hell bent on doing the very opposite by adhering to policies proven to be folly and rendered obsolete by smarter politicians in countries elsewhere.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Date and time
      August 28, 2014, 9:44AM
        • Well said pen.
          Ironic his own father (as an Englishman) received free UNI in Sydney just after the war. Then returned to England after the freebie.

          Commenter
          A country gal
          Date and time
          August 28, 2014, 11:47AM
        • Unis have been pegged back from funds because of the high dollar....OS students have been less and they pay top dollar to prop up the research part of the uni. Pyne is asking domestic students to pay now as the uni becomes a big business. Unfortunately, education is not another business but social capital for the future of the country......Pyne has got it all back to front.

          Commenter
          JT
          Date and time
          August 28, 2014, 12:24PM
        • Nice comparison of apples with oranges...completely different times where totally different services were govt funded and others weren't. I hope you don't actually believe what you type. Ever heard of 'user pays'? I love the students protesting as non-Uni taxpayers fund 60% of their degrees....those taxpayers who of course get nothing for their investment other than whinging protesters who decide which laws they can break during their protests.

          Commenter
          Sick of the left
          Date and time
          August 28, 2014, 3:32PM
      • It looks like from that pic (9:19am) that the ALP is very interested in this bill......

        Commenter
        Daniel
        Location
        Sydney
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 9:44AM
        • They may well be interested - just not in the bleatings of the puffed up Member for SA

          Commenter
          Blue Tie Dodgy
          Date and time
          August 28, 2014, 10:17AM
        • There's three there.

          Commenter
          A country gal
          Date and time
          August 28, 2014, 11:49AM
      • Dosen't look like too many are interested in hearing from Pyne - guess if I was in cold, wet Canberra I'd prefer lie in too. Make that any day in any weather.

        Commenter
        Blue Tie Foggy Vision
        Date and time
        August 28, 2014, 9:44AM
        • For my sins I listened to Christopher Pyne spruiking his ‘reforms’ this morning. Seems students should be happy to pay more for their education because university graduates live longer and are healthier. This, in Christopher’s version of reality, is why people go to University. They should be happy to pay for the privilege of a longer healthier life.

          Nothing about education as a national investment rather than a cost. Nothing about nation building. No broader vision. Nothing about the importance of equity of opportunity for all regardless of socio-economic background.

          Pathetic.

          Commenter
          Gigondas
          Date and time
          August 28, 2014, 9:46AM
          • Wish that was true. My father, a qualified Accountant died in 1994 aged 62. So where did he go wrong ? He put a high priority on looking after disadvantaged people, and did not vote LNP. Maybe it is only those with LNP DNA that live long, selfcentred lives.

            Commenter
            MST
            Date and time
            August 28, 2014, 10:08AM
          • @Gig - but the universities are lining up saying what a great idea this is (well around 8 of them anyway). How could it possibly go wrong?

            And can someone explain why our unis have to 'compete' with OS unis anyway??

            This is pure and simple - Libs want the rich to go to the 'better' unis. Kick out the riff-raff.

            Commenter
            davemac
            Location
            Melbourne
            Date and time
            August 28, 2014, 11:51AM
        • If Pyne says that "students will benefit the most"....well, we always know the LNP say exactly the mirror reverse of what is true.....propaganda to fool the public....so it should be "students will benefit the least' from his changes to higher education. As I can see .... the Uni's will benefit the most in $ terms because they can charge what they like. I worked for a Group of 8 Uni for 11 years.....and I know they will love Pyne's changes but the student's won't.

          Commenter
          JT
          Date and time
          August 28, 2014, 9:49AM
          • Exactly. Under Pyne's noxious policy, unis will transform themselves into fully fledged businesses where education comes second to profit, and students will pay for this ideological hijacking with larger debts which will take them many more years to pay down.

            And Pyne wonders why students tend to riot at the very sight of him.

            Commenter
            The Boofheads Are In Charge
            Date and time
            August 28, 2014, 11:10AM
          • too right non boofhead....my uni retrenched many because their dollars were down from OS students because of the high dollar. Under Pyne's changes they can charge top dollar fees like for OS students and funnel that extra money into research. Domestic students will actually be paying for university research and I can tell you now that not all of it was above board.....some academics fudged their results just to get large grants. The students are being thought of by Pyne as the scraps who pay. Very sad and the public are conned with his propaganda.

            Commenter
            JT
            Date and time
            August 28, 2014, 11:21AM
        • Chinese run Universities in Australia NOW! It is the only way for decent and reasonably priced higher education. Come on China, save us!

          Commenter
          Student
          Location
          Sydney
          Date and time
          August 28, 2014, 9:51AM
          • China has a number of up and coming universities. China also has a two campus university dedicated to Geosciences. Asian students probably won't really need to come to Australia for education much longer.

            Commenter
            Homage to Catalonia
            Date and time
            August 28, 2014, 1:04PM
        • I know I should be reassured that we have, according to the Defence Minister, “incredibly capable Super Hornets”. But I’m not.

          What I’d prefer is an incredibly capable Defence Minister. This we don’t have.

          Commenter
          Gigondas
          Date and time
          August 28, 2014, 10:00AM
          • Qantas aircraft bought at low Australian dollar; Australian dollar goes up so value of the aircraft is write down as the replacement cost is higher.
            Does this book keeping write down include the value of the Super Hornets bought by the Australian Government?

            Commenter
            Koel
            Date and time
            August 28, 2014, 10:06AM
        • Mark Binskin has just repeated almost word for word a US defence chief's words...the aim of IS is to take over all nations and entrench radical Islam law, so yes they will have to be defeated. However, let defence do that and Abbott, get on with your disgusting budget in parliament and come up with an alternative one or a DD election.

          Commenter
          JT
          Date and time
          August 28, 2014, 10:01AM
          • 10:00am, The Scott Morrison etho's, when you have nothing intelligent to say call someone a childish name. Yep the adults are here to save us!

            Commenter
            Get Real
            Date and time
            August 28, 2014, 10:05AM
            • And elsewhere Morrison is touted as possible leadership material.

              Commenter
              mirrorsofsmoke
              Location
              sydney
              Date and time
              August 28, 2014, 10:21AM
            • Evidently you haven't heard or seen Lines in action. An embarrassment to the ALP and herself. Scott got it right

              Commenter
              Got Real
              Date and time
              August 28, 2014, 10:45AM
            • If Morrison is touted as a future leader then the future is indeed bright!
              @Got Real, all I can say is Pyne, Hockey, Bishop and Truss embarrassing enough for you?

              Commenter
              Get Real
              Date and time
              August 28, 2014, 10:54AM
            • Morrison would have been an excellent leader of the Spanish Inquisition - he would've taken to that role like a pig to muck.

              Commenter
              The Boofheads Are In Charge
              Date and time
              August 28, 2014, 11:24AM
            • Get Real, you forgot to mention the heir to the Nationals and acting PM in waiting, Barnaby. You couldn't get anyone in any party more embarrassing or incompetent. But it seems he is the pick of the Nationals, which doesn't say much for the rest of them.

              Commenter
              Dr Bombay
              Location
              Sydney
              Date and time
              August 28, 2014, 1:01PM
          • I think the lack of attendance in the house is disgusting given it's a sitting day. What do these pollies get paid for?

            Commenter
            Catherine
            Date and time
            August 28, 2014, 10:11AM
            • The ticket sales for the Christopher Pyne concert just didn*t sell that well....

              Commenter
              David D
              Location
              Ettalong Beach
              Date and time
              August 28, 2014, 10:15AM
            • Well the Govt is paid to do that - but I have seen little of any effect. In any case I would rather my IOpposition MP attend to electoral business than waste his time listening to so called education policy pearls of wisdom . . .

              Commenter
              MST
              Date and time
              August 28, 2014, 10:15AM
            • Disagree Catherine. MPs have other meetings to go to (including parliamentary committees), people to meet, work to do. Attending the house for all the sessions is not necessary to be a good MP.
              They have all proceedings shown in their offices on internal TV.

              Commenter
              Joe Pierre
              Location
              Orange
              Date and time
              August 28, 2014, 10:26AM
            • Joe Pierre. In this case, on Mute.

              Commenter
              A country gal
              Date and time
              August 28, 2014, 11:53AM
          • Before we commit to Iraq/Syria and blindly follow the US again a number of questions need to be asked.

            1) Do we align with Assad who should be in the dock of the Hague instead of a war strategy room?

            2) Are we going to fund and arm a motley crew who may use these weapons against us in the future

            3) Is there a plan on what this means to the landscape of the Middle East once ISIS is defeated?

            Unfortunately these questions won't be answered because we have a clueless opposition leader I don't expect much from Bill Shorten who is doing a pretty bad job of holding the government to account. And the Greens will channel Neville Chamberlain.

            Commenter
            Piped Piper
            Date and time
            August 28, 2014, 10:17AM
              • It is up to the Govt to provide those answers as they are the ones who decide "defence" policies. On that one-eyed approach I guess Tony Abbott can be blamed for the outcome of any military action in the 6 years before he was PM ? Bill's thoughts don't matter this far out from an election - or does your rant suggest inside knowledge that a DD is about to be called ?

                Commenter
                MST
                Date and time
                August 28, 2014, 10:26AM
              • @PST Wrong. An effective opposition will hold the government of the day to account. If something is going to be done in our name like aligning with Assad then the opposition is required to stand up. Expect better from your leaders.

                Commenter
                Piped Piper
                Date and time
                August 28, 2014, 10:40AM
              • we all saw what happened in Iraq, US dismanted the army and police. Claim alot of the Iraqi budget money on training new army and provide new equipment. the result was few hundreds or thousands of what is called ISIS were able to make the newly trained army run away leaving these equipments so they can be used against iraqi poeple and all people in the region.

                Commenter
                lomasirah
                Date and time
                August 28, 2014, 10:49AM
              • Well well - so now the Opposition needs to set the scene as the Govt is so inept that the country is at risk of implosion - no arguments there. So where was the last Oppostion - MIA (not in Syria) ??? Only difference now is that they are on the opposite side of the House. Perhaps you will arrange with Bishop the Elder for the Oppostion to be allowed to ask the Question and for the Govt to be forced to answer it honestly. Good Luck with that.

                Commenter
                MST
                Date and time
                August 28, 2014, 10:58AM
              • Paid Piper – What a shame! You had me agreeing with you right up to the bit where you made the lack of thinking behind our response the fault of the opposition. Abbott is the PM. He is in charge. He needs to be thinking about such issues, not waiting for an opposition to ask them.

                I know that you are only trying to do your bit for ‘Operation Distract from the Worst Budget Ever’, but it makes it even more sad that you are maybe capable of putting forward part of a good argument even if you did revert to nonsensical propaganda at the end.

                Commenter
                QED
                Date and time
                August 28, 2014, 11:06AM
              • @QED. I have lost hope on anyone in the government to ask these questions. I have expressed my frustration in the past on our foreign policy. I would love the opposition to ask these tough question. I am actually being sincere in the case. I will credit and praise Shorten if he does this. I am really concerned about our involvement and the talk from the UK/US about aligning with Assad and arming "moderate" groups in Syria.

                Commenter
                Piped Piper
                Date and time
                August 28, 2014, 11:36AM
              • So your message PP is that if something isn't right, it's got to be Labor/Bill Shorten's fault.
                Please try to remember that it's your lot that is government at the moment.
                Also, it was your mob (under Howard) and the Coalition of the Willing who helped create the mess in that part of the world.

                Commenter
                stevek
                Location
                Sydney
                Date and time
                August 28, 2014, 11:52AM
              • I am asking the opposition to do it's job and ask the government tough questions. If all goes to crap in Iraq/Syria of course the government is to blame. Is it too much to ask the opposition to hold the government to account? Why are we paying them to represent us? I was always against the Iraq war. Then, now and into the future. I actually am vocal if I disagree with my side of politics unlike the other side.

                Commenter
                Piped Piper
                Date and time
                August 28, 2014, 11:59AM
              • Paid Piper – I’m coming around to your way of thinking! Now you mention it, it was Abbott’s fault for the budget getting larger during the GFC cos he didn’t do enough to oppose ALP spending!

                Did your morning LNP spin team briefing actually recommend that there would be people stupid enough to ignore the shocking job Abbott is doing governing the country, by spending all day pretending that the actions of the government in power are the responsibility of the opposition? Well I’ll give you some points for originality, for this a ‘’dog ate my homework’’ kind of excuse. It’s boring now…

                Commenter
                QED
                Date and time
                August 28, 2014, 3:13PM
            • Calling the uni fee reduction "20%" borders on dishonest.

              The government currently contributes 60%. This is planned to be reduced to 40% (on average).

              This corresponds to a reduction of the government contribution of 33% (60 to 40). the student contribution will increase by 50% (40 to 60).

              any changes due to deregulation will be applied on top of these changes.

              Let's have the debate but let's not attempt to deceive.

              Commenter
              Truth please
              Date and time
              August 28, 2014, 10:17AM
              • You may be right but I'm sure I've heard the ABC report more than once that taxpayers contribute 50% of the cost currently.

                Commenter
                Puzzled
                Date and time
                August 28, 2014, 10:27AM
              • You say tomatoes ! Of course there are other ways of comparing the same statistics.

                But 60% to 40% is a 20% decrease in the funding mix from govt.

                Commenter
                Doc
                Date and time
                August 28, 2014, 5:32PM
            • A picture tells a thousand words . . . guess the Tele is also struggling for something to say

              Commenter
              PUP
              Date and time
              August 28, 2014, 10:20AM
              • Let's hope Labor can ask some clever and sensible questions today. A change is as good as a holiday.

                Commenter
                David Morrison
                Location
                Blue Mountains
                Date and time
                August 28, 2014, 10:23AM
                • The obvious rejoinder to that David is, lets hope the Government reply with some honest and intelligent answers.

                  Wont happen on both accounts will it given the history of Aus parliament?

                  Commenter
                  mirrorsofsmoke
                  Location
                  sydney
                  Date and time
                  August 28, 2014, 10:27AM
                • Dont expect much David. A good opposition will ask Tony some tough questions on our military involvement in Iraq/Syria. Instead he will ask questions about how unfair the co payment is on working families.

                  Commenter
                  Piped Piper
                  Date and time
                  August 28, 2014, 10:30AM
                • Why waste cleverness on QT when you get not even a half assed response. Save that for a forum that is listening. BTW - the Govt came off second best yesterday so it seems the efforts are not in vein.

                  Commenter
                  MST
                  Date and time
                  August 28, 2014, 10:32AM
                • PP - our involvment in Syria is a "maybe" - the electorate is curently more interested in what is happening here. And I remember Tony setting a really high standard as Opposition Leader - well if you consider gutter sniping meets that criteria

                  Commenter
                  Really ?
                  Date and time
                  August 28, 2014, 10:42AM
                • PP - we don't have a military involvement in Syria - unless that is "Operation deflect Attention" and therefore not for public discussion. Tony Abyss - his record was slogans - seemed to meet the requirements of the Tele readers

                  Commenter
                  Blue Tie Lies
                  Date and time
                  August 28, 2014, 10:46AM
                • Th questions are fine. The answers are the problem. Why when the answer should be yes or no does Joe Hockey waffle on about nothing. he sounds like a badly tuned record.
                  Questions not answered in the HCS mean very marks. The same can be said for Joe Hockey and his cronies.

                  Commenter
                  Robyn
                  Location
                  Rural NSW
                  Date and time
                  August 28, 2014, 10:51AM
                • Labor has an interim strategy: kill off any chance Hockey once had as heir apparent.

                  And if one looks at the recent poll of most competent treasurers, said plan is working swimmingly well - Mr. 5 percent, I believe.

                  Bishop, J is now firming, which, if one considers Abbott's prime ministership is not yet one year old, says all that needs to be said about this divisive leader, with his clutch of tired, incompetent, gaffe-prone ministers.

                  Commenter
                  Jason of Gold Coast
                  Date and time
                  August 28, 2014, 10:58AM
                • OK @David - can you provide an example?

                  Commenter
                  davemac
                  Location
                  Melbourne
                  Date and time
                  August 28, 2014, 11:48AM
                • It's the answers or lack of that is a constant problem.Let's hope the Dixers are relevant and about the Budget.
                  I just saw Mr Dumbo fly past.

                  Commenter
                  A country gal
                  Date and time
                  August 28, 2014, 12:04PM
              • Photo from 9:11am - It looks like all the MPs in the TV seats (ie the good looking Libs) have been ordered to attend, so it can look like Pyne is talking to a full house.

                Commenter
                Joe Pierre
                Location
                Orange
                Date and time
                August 28, 2014, 10:27AM
                • Hmm - still an empty house

                  Commenter
                  MST
                  Date and time
                  August 28, 2014, 11:21AM
              • "Novice senator finding her way." Well I guess she is in good company - along with the "novice" PM and Front Bench.

                Commenter
                MST
                Date and time
                August 28, 2014, 10:30AM
                • "Popularity should be no scale for the election of politicians. If it would depend on popularity, Donald Duck and The Muppets would take seats in senate" Orson Welles

                  I vote for the muppet with the original three word slogan!
                  "Wocka Wocka Wocka": Fozzie Bear

                  Commenter
                  Immal
                  Date and time
                  August 28, 2014, 10:32AM
                  • Novice? Well that's some kind of description. "well hung, lots of money", helping strengthen our ties with China... Yeah, "Novice" isn't the word I am thinking of here.

                    Commenter
                    Mick
                    Date and time
                    August 28, 2014, 10:32AM
                    • 10:07 - that Daily Telegraph article was most interesting in speculating that Clive might be losing his grip and a seperate cross-bench Senate voting bloc might emerge.

                      It sounds like Clive's relationship with almost everyone is on the brink of breakdown, but could we really expect the outlandish Lambie to work effectively with the rather sober likes of Leyonhjelm and Day ?

                      Commenter
                      Hacka
                      Location
                      Canberra
                      Date and time
                      August 28, 2014, 10:32AM
                      • I was more interested in the articles in Fairfax this morning. Even the LNP cheer squad was finding it relevant to discuss future PM's . . . and where the Govt has lost its grip. Not even a Pass mark . . .

                        Commenter
                        Really ?
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 10:37AM
                      • Who cares for soap opera stuff Hacka...just as long as the senate blocks the nasty bits.

                        Commenter
                        JT
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 10:46AM
                      • Well JT - Palmer might oppose many of those bills, but that might soon add up to a Senate voting bloc of one or even zero.

                        Wouldn't that throw the cat amongst the pigeons ?

                        Commenter
                        Hacka
                        Location
                        Canberra
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 10:56AM
                      • A desperate and failed attempt at deflection yet!! Reading the Daily Telealie and posting on Fairfax, my how the once mighty have fallen!

                        Commenter
                        Get Real
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 10:57AM
                      • Get real - sounds like you're in the wrong forum. Judith has already raised the issue and i wasn't aware that addressing these things was a deflection.

                        Got anything to add about the PUP's ?

                        Commenter
                        Hacka
                        Location
                        Canberra
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 11:05AM
                      • Don't personally care for the soap operas between cats and pigeons either Hacka. More importantly, as there is a fairly big chance all the nasty welfare changes and Uni changes (I won't call them reforms as they are not) will be blocked, have you come up with an alternate budget yet? If no, can you talk Tony into an election please?

                        Commenter
                        JT
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 11:05AM
                      • Hacka, the deflection is anything to distract from the obvious growing tensions and disasters in the beloved LNP, you appear to revel in others supposed miseries while ignoring the ever growing white elephant in hte room.

                        Commenter
                        Get Real
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 11:22AM
                      • JT - tax hikes might be one option, surprised you've missed all that discussion a few days back.

                        Get Real - well that might be what floats your boat today, but frankly most Aussies are far more interested the budget, of which the Senate voting intentions are rather important wouldn't you reckon ?

                        Commenter
                        Hacka
                        Location
                        Canberra
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 11:36AM
                      • Ah yes the budget that dead horse is still being flogged, how could I forget another defining moment of ineptitude. Hopefully common sense still prevails and this is consigned to the bin.

                        Commenter
                        Get Real
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 11:45AM
                      • Tax hikes are preferable to cuts in welfare at this point in time. Cuts to welfare slow the economy however, we don't need to do drastic things with fiscal policy now. You know all this is about ideology. If we had a decent govt that showed leadership in now, they would be giving tax incentives for developing industries to take over from mining...eg things like exporting renewable energy technology ie technology to power towns and cities with solar energy rather than using coal and uranium. Japan would be a keen buyer in future.....but this govt is not so bright in it's thinking. Exports make a country wealthy and coal and uranium won't make us wealthy in future something else has too.

                        Commenter
                        JT
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 11:46AM
                      • Hacka - In case you haven't noticed there is an outright war going on between Rupert''s Rags and Clive Palmer.
                        So I recommend ignoring anything written in as New Limited papers about PUP.
                        Or better still, stop reading them all together, you may raise your IO.

                        Commenter
                        MarkC
                        Location
                        Sunshine Coast
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 11:46AM
                      • @H I would have to say nothing would surprise me re PUP and CP. Could do anything. Could be a good reason to bring on a DD do you think? PUP gets kicked out and....well we'll work out the rest.

                        Commenter
                        davemac
                        Location
                        Melbourne
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 11:47AM
                      • Hacka – Tax hikes are not such a bad idea. They will be far more progressive as a tax then the proposed class war uni fee charges and co-payments and don’t end up costing our country more in the long run as we waste our intellectual assets (ie anyone not rich can’t afford uni) and the cost of health exploding as illnesses go undiagnosed.

                        And there is also the added benefit of new taxes quickening Abbott’s impending and unavoidable exit!

                        Commenter
                        QED
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 11:50AM
                      • That's high brow reading for the morning Hacksie.

                        Commenter
                        A country gal
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 11:59AM
                      • davemac - the way it's going there mightn't even be a PUP within a few weeks. wonder what the new bloc might call themselves.

                        Mark C - yes it's a great stoush, The Oz even has a dedicated section to it. The stoush between News and the ABC is even better.

                        Unsure what you meant by IO, presume you were trying to say intelligence quotient. If so, has there been a link discovered recently between IQ and reading content ?

                        Commenter
                        Hacka
                        Location
                        Canberra
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 11:59AM
                      • Has there been a link discovered recently between IQ and reading content ? Not sure about that - reading preferences perhaps.

                        No matter what your IQ is if the IQ of the writer or the rag it is published in is suspect then the "content" of the material being read will be too.

                        Commenter
                        MST
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 12:14PM
                    • Why can't the LNP can't get key policies passed, when Labor got the carbon tax and the mining tax passed.
                      The difference in incompetence between the Abbott government and the Rudd/Gillard governments is starting to become very apparent.
                      Stubborn arrogance just isn't going to work for Abbott and the LNP.

                      Commenter
                      Tim
                      Location
                      Inner City
                      Date and time
                      August 28, 2014, 11:22AM
                      • @Tim A lot had to do with the quality of the policies. In essences Rudd/Gillard had the right policies @ the right time. The LNP are trying to introduce policies from a by gone era. Yesterdays policies from yesterdays men.

                        Commenter
                        Wise One
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 11:31AM
                      • Tim, do you understand how our parliament works? From your comment obviously not. Abbott a obstructionist senate who are more interested in being popular than doing what is right. Gillard had a compliant upper and lower houses and it was the incompetence of the legislation that caused dysfunction. Everyday we see another book from a labor person confirming what News Ltd reported over the last couple of years. Is it little wonder that few get any mention here at Fairfax?

                        Commenter
                        Southpark conservative
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 11:42AM
                      • They signed their souls away to secure the support of the Greens and Independents.

                        Thereafter they were the puppets and their partners pulled the strings... that (along with their own internal incompetence and infighting) was why they were such a shambles .. and why much respected senior figures elected to leave.

                        Commenter
                        Puzzled
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 11:44AM
                      • I understand what a rhetorical question is...

                        Commenter
                        Tim
                        Location
                        Inner City
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 12:07PM
                      • Puzzled, at least the strings were being pulled by elected representatives. The current Federal Government is under the control of banks, miners and big carbon.

                        Commenter
                        Xhasin
                        Location
                        Sydney
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 1:18PM
                    • Looks to me like Jacqui has now found the right man ..

                      Commenter
                      The WAG
                      Location
                      Brisbane
                      Date and time
                      August 28, 2014, 11:24AM
                      • Yep, I'm gonna go there .....
                        The member for fairfax has passed a motion.

                        Commenter
                        Immal
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 11:32AM
                        • Why am I now thinking of an Austin Powers movie (No 2 I think, no pun intended)....Hmmm...

                          Commenter
                          davemac
                          Location
                          Melbourne
                          Date and time
                          August 28, 2014, 11:45AM
                      • Well at least Clive had the good sense to make up a story and not embarrass the government. After all the twaddle the they spew forth all condoned by the one sided speaker would bore anyone to a pit stop just to leave the place. The toilets must have had a long line up this morning when Chris was droning on.

                        Commenter
                        Wise One
                        Date and time
                        August 28, 2014, 11:42AM
                        • Nick Xenophon, you are economically challenged, you have to write down an asset to reflect its true value, this was buck passed for a number of years so someone had to take the hit, it in fact has no material effect on the P & L but only on the Balance Sheet, might be beyond your intellectual capacity since your don’t have a real job in the real world so we’ll give you the right to plead your ignorance, which is your strong suite.

                          Commenter
                          Peter G
                          Location
                          Drummoyne
                          Date and time
                          August 28, 2014, 11:48AM
                          • He is taking a lead fromt he "novice" Govt whose CV is very thin on real world experience.

                            Commenter
                            MST
                            Date and time
                            August 28, 2014, 11:58AM
                          • Sorry Peter G reflecting an assets Fair Value (correct accounting term) does not necessarily mean writing it down if it value has increased. Suggest you read up on the Australian Accounting Standards

                            Commenter
                            Wise One
                            Date and time
                            August 28, 2014, 12:01PM
                          • Sorry, Wise One, but you are not allowed to overstate the value of an asset because it will cloud what you state as the value of your liabilities. No need to apologise Wise one, we all make mistakes.

                            Commenter
                            Peter G
                            Location
                            Drummoyne
                            Date and time
                            August 28, 2014, 12:11PM
                          • And one more point, the value in this case has decreased, case you missed that important detail. no need to apologies.

                            Commenter
                            Peter G
                            Location
                            Drummoyne
                            Date and time
                            August 28, 2014, 12:13PM
                          • Peter G - I think that would be "accountantly challenged" - economics is a different field.

                            In any case, pretty sure the point wasn't that the write down had occured, but why it had occurred. His point is that the assets have lost value because of management decisions.

                            As for "buck passed for a number of years" - you do realise how long Alan Joyce has been in his current job, right?

                            Commenter
                            Aaron
                            Date and time
                            August 28, 2014, 12:25PM
                        • Go easy Clive - any lighter and you'll float away.

                          Commenter
                          The Boofheads Are In Charge
                          Date and time
                          August 28, 2014, 11:51AM
                          • Palmer and Weatherill - another case of strange bedfellows, no doubt confounding the Tories.

                            The GP copayment is, I think, dead buried & cremated, as are the tertiary education 'reforms'.

                            But you never know for sure with our Clive.

                            Commenter
                            Jason of Gold Coast
                            Date and time
                            August 28, 2014, 11:51AM
                            • Jason, it must just be me or my small screen(ipad) but the pic @10.48 looks like Jay has his hand in Clive's pocket. it's actually Clive's but appears as Jays.
                              It looks pretty funny especially given the references to them being pals.

                              Commenter
                              A country gal
                              Date and time
                              August 28, 2014, 2:25PM
                          • Given the higher level of education attained by the majority of LNP members, there is a slight over-education of the ego more than the mind kindled by cab merlot no less to trigger an excellent political discourse for Team Australia’s entitlements. It is a wonder a nice merlot provides LNP the most brutal of educators.

                            Commenter
                            Postgirl
                            Date and time
                            August 28, 2014, 11:56AM
                            • Louis XVI and his missus Marie were also drinking 95 franc Merlot one fine day back in 1789 when suddenly there was a bit of a ruckus outside....

                              The Liberals aren't learning from history so they're doomed to repeat it.

                              Commenter
                              The Boofheads Are In Charge
                              Date and time
                              August 28, 2014, 12:14PM
                          • I think the issue now days with student protests is that Australian Universities are full of Foreign students that are not willing to rock the boat in relation to politics. that's why i think we get these paltry numbers of demonstrators. Its sad.

                            Commenter
                            Daniel
                            Location
                            Sydney
                            Date and time
                            August 28, 2014, 11:59AM
                            • Or it might be because students have to work all the available hours in order to survive - unless Mummy & Daddy pay, or you get a scholarship . . .

                              Commenter
                              MST
                              Date and time
                              August 28, 2014, 12:09PM
                            • Or maybe the majority of students are just getting on with their study to give themselves the best chance to get a job when they graduate, especially in a tough market. As opposed to spending time protesting about how unfair things are. What type of grad would you be willing to hire if you ran your own business?

                              Commenter
                              Mick
                              Date and time
                              August 28, 2014, 12:11PM
                            • Let’s not be shy with the fact that it was the Hawke government that introduced HECS and when we allow long-term obligations to counteract short term benefits, future generations suffer and cop it sweet.

                              Commenter
                              MBG
                              Date and time
                              August 28, 2014, 12:16PM
                            • Mick - I'd be inclined to hire the type of grad that was engaged with their country and the world, that held a view and was prepared to back that view with action. I'd also be pretty keen on the grad that had a social conscience and cared about other people as well as themselves.
                              Oh, and just so you know: it's possible to both get good marks and be active member of your community. Amazing but true.

                              Commenter
                              Aaron
                              Date and time
                              August 28, 2014, 12:20PM
                            • It is sad, especially when one takes account of the heady days of the Vietnam conflict demonstrations, made all the worse with Abbott's Bush-like utterance re. "Team Australia".

                              Further, many overseas students hail from countries where demonstrating against the powers that be could well result in their gaoling or worse. Thus I do understand their reticence.

                              Commenter
                              Jason of Gold Coast
                              Date and time
                              August 28, 2014, 12:23PM
                            • Absolutely agree. The elite universities in Australia regard rich foreign students and their parents as their natural constituency. They're the same people buying up all of these trophy houses. Aussies just have to be content with what they can get that's leftover. Which is, oh yes, "scholarships" for deserving locals.

                              Commenter
                              Pluto
                              Location
                              Melbourne
                              Date and time
                              August 28, 2014, 12:59PM
                          • I wonder how long it'll be before Chris Pyne berates the NUS?

                            Fancy complaining against deregulation and bond interest rates - it's just shocking.

                            It wasn't like that in your day, was it Chris(?).

                            By the way, and please don't think I'm being
                            intrusive: how much did your LLB cost?

                            Commenter
                            Jason of Gold Coast
                            Date and time
                            August 28, 2014, 12:01PM
                            • Am assumimg that Clive is a little less "full of it" now??????

                              Commenter
                              meganjj
                              Location
                              melbourne
                              Date and time
                              August 28, 2014, 12:12PM
                              • 11.52 am. Its been 12 years since leaving uni. The world has evolved its a shame Arts students haven't evolved with their dress sense, slogans and banners. They'll probably be on the front bench for the ALP in 10 years time.

                                Commenter
                                Piped Piper
                                Date and time
                                August 28, 2014, 12:14PM
                                • Probably PP. They look like intelligent young women with a social conscience to me!

                                  Commenter
                                  meganjj
                                  Location
                                  melbourne
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:16PM
                                • You would have been such fun in the Young Liberal meetings at university, plotting ways to get at those "commies" on campus.

                                  Commenter
                                  BC
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:16PM
                                • PP, wow it only took 12 years for you to grow old.

                                  Commenter
                                  jofek
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:18PM
                                • Why do Arts students have to dress like royalty when they are protesting piped? Where will they get the money to buy $1000 dresses to wear to protest that their degrees already cost too much? No logic there sorry.

                                  Commenter
                                  JT
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:18PM
                                • Or, after going through university and accepting all the help they could get, sit on the LNP front bench coming up with policies to stop the next generation getting access to it aka Joe Hockey. How has your dress sense evolved Pied, stopped wearing that little outfit with the flute have you?

                                  Commenter
                                  Deafening
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:20PM
                                • Being women there is no space for them on the LNP Front Bench. That is saved for Blue Tie Boys from the right schools who have served time as a Young Lieberal flunky in a MP's office

                                  Commenter
                                  MST
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:20PM
                                • I was an actually a member of the socialist alliance in uni thanks to the aggressive recruitment tactics and naivity. Even contributed a piece to the green left. I grew up when I entered the real world and saw the flaws of my previous views.

                                  Commenter
                                  Piped Piper
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:21PM
                                • No Piper - you're either extremely gullible, very confused, or a serial squaddie. Maybe all three.

                                  Commenter
                                  BC
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:27PM
                                • Well the rate the Libs are evolving, there won't be a LP to be able to be on their front bench.
                                  They'll have to come up with a new name that represents their true ideological agenda. Because there is no liberal in the Liberal Party.
                                  One exception, liberal with the truth.

                                  Commenter
                                  A country gal
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:29PM
                                • The world has evolved and babies are born wearing blue ties that never evolve.

                                  Commenter
                                  Tim
                                  Location
                                  Inner City
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:31PM
                                • piped...sounds like naivity and aggressive tactics may still apply to you......have you ever thought that there might be a middle ground between socialist alliance loony bin stuff and Abbott's far right loony bin stuff?

                                  Commenter
                                  JT
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:35PM
                                • @BC, Piped is paid to write this dross!

                                  Commenter
                                  Get Real
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:36PM
                                • ah look....sloppy joe was there protesting against the loss of free education all those years ago ....maybe that woman in the photo will be Australia's treasurer one day! Hope she does a better job though!

                                  Commenter
                                  JT
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:40PM
                                • Good old Tones lost out on "Natural Family Man of the Year" because of the "WINK"

                                  Commenter
                                  Tim
                                  Location
                                  Inner City
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:43PM
                                • Yep @PP, entered the real world where you can feel free to dump on anyone that you feel is unworthy and not up to snuff. Well, you certainly qualify as a Lib, that's for sure. Guess what, I was a leftie as uni as well, maybe we inhabit different real worlds??

                                  Commenter
                                  davemac
                                  Location
                                  Melbourne
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:47PM
                                • I am not a far right wing loony. I have been very vocal when I have disagreed with the government. I have asked for the likes of Brandis to resign for being too ideological and Orwellian as an attorney general. I am also against the anti-terror legislation. I am against the PPL. I am more aligned with the likes of Lyjonhelm than Abbott.

                                  Commenter
                                  Piped Piper
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:54PM
                                • I had the same experience at uni, PP. Except I joined the Liberal Party. After leaving uni and working on secondment to the US, I discovered they were nothing more than a particularly awful version of the Tea Party. Now I solidly back independents, most of whom are light years ahead in ability and compassion for their country and its citizens compared to the rorting rabble of the major parties. A priority must be to end the privileges card these clowns get on leaving office, back dated of course.

                                  Commenter
                                  Tony2
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 1:25PM
                              • So let me get this right - there's a women's group protesting against a families group ?

                                What are they trying to achieve ? Or maybe they're really those uni students just trying to find something else to protest about now that Pyne's finished his speech.

                                Commenter
                                Hacka
                                Location
                                Canberra
                                Date and time
                                August 28, 2014, 12:20PM
                                • @Hacka. Must be semester break at ANU.

                                  Commenter
                                  Piped Piper
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:26PM
                                • What are they hoping to achieve? Presumably they are hoping to achieve bringing to public attention the actual views of said "families" group, which many Australias would probably find at best backwards, and at worse abhorrent.

                                  They're probably trying to bring certain politicians apparent support for these views to public attention as well.

                                  Not sure why that's difficult to understand.

                                  Commenter
                                  Aaron
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:28PM
                                • World Congress of Fams, "is responsible for spreading homophobic and sexist prejudices around the world ... [and] is responsible for spreading harmful myths, including linking abortion with breast cancer". What right minded person would lend their name to such a group ?

                                  Commenter
                                  MST
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:29PM
                                • Either you approve of these zealots or you are not acquainted with their radical and bizarre view of the world.
                                  They are clearly nutters.

                                  Commenter
                                  A country gal
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:32PM
                                • They won't have long to wait - the budget is sure to pop its head up again soon

                                  Commenter
                                  This Budget Stinks
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:33PM
                                • No Hacka their protesting about the rigid views of Andrews, you know the ones about only a man and a women, thankfully we've moved on from those days.

                                  Commenter
                                  Amro
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:36PM
                                • Piped Piper - looks like Labor and the Greens have got into the act too (12:22).

                                  Seems like they're complaining about the right to free speech again.

                                  Commenter
                                  Hacka
                                  Location
                                  Canberra
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:37PM
                                • No, really @H, throwing your lot in with this 'families group'?

                                  Commenter
                                  davemac
                                  Location
                                  Melbourne
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:39PM
                                • Probably if you bothered to read you would discover that there protest is that this organisation "is responsible for spreading homophobic and sexist prejudices around the world ... [and] is responsible for spreading harmful myths, including linking abortion with breast cancer" But judging by the recent gaffsters form this in line with their modus operandi, more attempts at deflection hey Hacks!

                                  Commenter
                                  Get Real
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:41PM
                                • Hacka - you began this by complaining about people exercising their free speech. Do as I say not as I do LNP attitudes coming to the surface everywhere this week.

                                  Commenter
                                  Credlinbility
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:42PM
                                • I don't know. They could be protesting a group who incorrectly link breast cancer to abortion. Or they could be protesting a group which blames the pill for sexual violence. Or maybe protesting a group which essentially advocates their way or the high way.
                                  Either or, they are exercising their right to protest something they feel strongly about.
                                  Hardly deserving of such smarmy dismissiveness from the two of you.

                                  Commenter
                                  bkgw
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:43PM
                                • @H I didn't see anything about free speech in there, of course any nutbags can get together and do just about whatever they want. Your comment is almost @EiE like, I must say I've had my suspicions, never seen you two in the same room together. But the Libs 'church' must be pretty broad to basically say that they endorse a group like this having a senior minister opening and closing the conference. Don't you think there's a line here? Obviously Chris Pyne would probably say no to opening the Australia Nazi Conference, but just where is that damn line?

                                  Commenter
                                  davemac
                                  Location
                                  Melbourne
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:43PM
                                • ['...there's a women's group protesting against a families group?']

                                  The 'families group' you're referring to is I presume "The World Congress of Families" -
                                  a very moderate grouping & which Kevin Andrews has been named: "Natural Family Man of the Year", albeit, no doubt due to his utter embarrassment, he had his spokesman initially deny it, but shortly thereafter came clean, once it became known to the MSN.

                                  Commenter
                                  Jason of Gold Coast
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:45PM
                                • ACG - to be honest i'd never heard of them before today. Perhaps they are a bunch of nutters, but a quick squiz at their webside suggests they promote the nuclear family.

                                  And given the nuclear family is largely responsible for the growth and development of mankind over thousands of years, surely they can't be that much of a threat to society as a few people suggest.

                                  davemac - no religious bones in this body mate, but i always have a good chuckle when reading about the Greens accusing others of "spreading harmful myths".

                                  Commenter
                                  Hacka
                                  Location
                                  Canberra
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:46PM
                                • The WCF is an anti-gay, anti-abortion Christian Hate Group. They hate Gays and Women.

                                  Commenter
                                  Cozza
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:49PM
                                • ['ACG - to be honest i'd never heard of them before today.']

                                  I believe you but thousands wouldn't.

                                  But giving you the benefit of the doubt, it seems you're failing to perform you're job to the requisite extent.

                                  Conversely, I'd deny knowledge of a such an extreme organisation if I were you.

                                  Commenter
                                  Jason of Gold Coast
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:59PM
                                • Come on @H...you remember...a lib minister stuffing up on live TV? Sorry I'll narrow it down further....a particularly right wing...ok it was Abetz. Abortion....breast cancer. Yep, you got it.

                                  Commenter
                                  davemac
                                  Location
                                  Melbourne
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:59PM
                                • "And given the nuclear family is largely responsible for the growth and development of mankind over thousands of years"

                                  This reflects a profound misunderstanding of human history. The nuclear family is very much a modern invention. It is community that has sustained humanity over the course of its history, not artificial notions of the "correct" family structure.

                                  Commenter
                                  Aaron
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 1:06PM
                                • Cozza - a pro-families group who don't like women huh. Aren't women fairly integral to family development ?

                                  Jason - apologies - i thought i had denied any knowledge, perhaps the above post wasn't clear enough.

                                  Commenter
                                  Hacka
                                  Location
                                  Canberra
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 1:16PM
                                • @Hacka (or is that Erick?)
                                  I suppose being a "women's group" they must be up to something bad.
                                  Before asking what they're trying to achieve, maybe you should do some research into what the World Congress of Families stands for.

                                  Commenter
                                  gobsmack
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 1:18PM
                                • Even for you, that is bad spin.

                                  Commenter
                                  Tony2
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 1:28PM
                                • Sorry Hacksie but given you are media savvy and politically in touch with current affairs, I find it very difficult to take your denial seriously. Giving you the benefit of the doubt is well ummm stretching it.
                                  They were discussed on The Pulse yesterday, and you were here.
                                  Perhaps you should expand your googling past their own website. Checkout their KN Speakers and their 'history'.
                                  Westboro (guess you've heard of them) probably approve of them too.

                                  Commenter
                                  A country gal
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 1:30PM
                                • Aaron - if the nuclear family is "a modern invention", how did the population of the earth reach several billion ?

                                  Bear in mind that the nuclear family has nothing to do with marriage and everything to do with a parents-children unit.

                                  Commenter
                                  Hacka
                                  Location
                                  Canberra
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 1:31PM
                                • "Aaron - if the nuclear family is "a modern invention", how did the population of the earth reach several billion ?"

                                  Hacka do we need to have the birds and bees talk?

                                  A human sociological construct has nothing to do with the ability to procreate.

                                  Commenter
                                  Mr Burns
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 1:36PM
                                • Wow Mr Burns - we're getting some really interesting takes on the history of evolution today. Procreation might bear children, but surely you don't think that's the end of the process.

                                  It does take a little nurturing, support and teaching to help a baby become an independent and productive adult.

                                  But maybe i'm beginning to understand Labor supporters a little better now ....

                                  Commenter
                                  Hacka
                                  Location
                                  Canberra
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 1:43PM
                                • ['Jason - apologies...']

                                  They're accepted with good grace; but do stop the manifest obfuscation.

                                  I've canvassed the matter for the last two days, on various threads, notwithstanding that you may to do my posts which I sometimes do to others.

                                  Commenter
                                  Jason of Gold Coast
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 2:00PM
                                • Hacka
                                  "It does take a little nurturing, support and teaching to help a baby become an independent and productive adult."
                                  At last you have said something sensible.
                                  Now I expect you will join us in sacking this government and anyone who supports the Congress of Families.
                                  The Congress are so narrowly defining "families" that they are excluding the majority of families and their babies.
                                  This government is so focussed on cutting back on health, support and education for families that I assume you will be voting Labor from now on.

                                  Commenter
                                  Steve
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 2:13PM
                                • @Hacka - So it would been okay for a mens group to protest against the families group because you think that families is the work of women, not men, and therefore only women are involved with a family group? Puts your 18th century views of women in perspective.

                                  In terms of students protesting why not? We send them to university to get an education in how to undertake reasoned and fact based debate to think about issues and then engage in bringing those issues to the fore. As the government pretty well ignores them and their future why shouldn't they have an old fashioned protest.At least they are being genuine bout what they think rather than the simplistic slogan driven spin that Pyne putting up.

                                  It shows they give a dam and that is a thing lacking in too many people these days.

                                  Commenter
                                  Lance
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 2:15PM
                                • @Hacka - to quote Wikipedia (I can become the Environment Minister apparently with that qualification) the uclear family .."has been challenged as historically and sociologically inadequate to describe the complexity of actual family relations." which would explain how you are so confused about this world family conference representing families. doesn't. It just represents a subset of societal values that are bit outdated.

                                  I suppose that you got confused by the word family being in the title. Given that I suppose you haven't had your kids vaccinated given you would believe the things the Vaccination Network used say?

                                  Commenter
                                  Lance
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 2:29PM
                                • Lance - i suspect you need to be able to use both Wikipedia and a spell checker to become a government Minister.

                                  (sorry, cheap shot i know but your posts were so ridiculous they deserved one)

                                  Commenter
                                  Hacka
                                  Location
                                  Canberra
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 4:11PM
                              • Have to say that anyone who managed to sit through Christpher Pyne's performance in the house this morning without either throwing up or wetting themselves with laughter has my utmost admiration.
                                No wonder there were so few attendees.

                                Commenter
                                meganjj
                                Location
                                melbourne
                                Date and time
                                August 28, 2014, 12:27PM
                                • no, couldn't watch him...I had a very nutritious breakfast this morning and want to keep the nutrients inside me thanks!

                                  Commenter
                                  JT
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:31PM
                                • Clive might otherwise be in a long line for the bathroom . . .

                                  Commenter
                                  MST
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:31PM
                              • 12.25. Can anyone enlighten me as to what a "natural' family man is???????
                                He hair certainly doesnt fit the criteria.

                                Commenter
                                meganjj
                                Location
                                melbourne
                                Date and time
                                August 28, 2014, 12:30PM
                                • They are homophobic, sexist and believes abortion is linked to breast cancer, sounds like an LNP candidate!

                                  Commenter
                                  Get Real
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:44PM
                                • Better ask Fred Nile.....he has the same views as that Congress of Families....so natural and accepting of all types of families....NOT

                                  Commenter
                                  JT
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:46PM
                                • Use your imagination. I think in Kevin's case its got something to do with the Missionary Position. Kevin will become a Missionary when this government is thrown out.

                                  Commenter
                                  Pluto
                                  Location
                                  Melbourne
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:46PM
                                • I'm taking the term loosely, like all the products you see these days in the supermarket promoted as "Natural", Natural this and Natural that. But once you turn the packet or bottle over and read the ingredients you realise it is anything but Natural.
                                  Just a Marketing con that's intended to deceive the consumer.

                                  Commenter
                                  A country gal
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 1:16PM
                              • And seeing the "Congress" is garnering media attention it should be equally worthy to promote March Australia on the weekend.
                                Saturday in regional centres. Sunday for the Capital Cities.

                                Commenter
                                A country gal
                                Date and time
                                August 28, 2014, 12:39PM
                                • Natural Family Man of the Year? I find the categorization slightly bordering on discriminatory and prejudicial because we all know that it is not the flesh or the blood that makes a family but a family founded on love is the essence of a successful relationship.

                                  Commenter
                                  Postgirl
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:42PM
                                  • yes, according to them the only natural family is a wife a husband and a couple of kids, even though it is actually a human construct and enforced propaganda in our culture...ask him how other intelligent life on earth construct their families eg whales and they cough , splutter, can't answer. BTW, a 'natural' family for a whale is very different to a human 'natural' family.

                                    Commenter
                                    JT
                                    Date and time
                                    August 28, 2014, 12:54PM
                                • 12:45pm. Love it. Selling pork to politicians!

                                  Commenter
                                  Pluto
                                  Location
                                  Melbourne
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:47PM
                                  • Yep, in the trough.

                                    Commenter
                                    A country gal
                                    Date and time
                                    August 28, 2014, 12:49PM
                                  • Hosting not selling? Your presumption that the pollies will pay for it is not very much appreciated.

                                    Commenter
                                    MBG
                                    Date and time
                                    August 28, 2014, 12:50PM
                                  • not often you see pork without the barrel around parliament house.

                                    Commenter
                                    nick
                                    Date and time
                                    August 28, 2014, 1:01PM
                                  • @MBG. Oh sorry. A slip. Yes hosting. Our pollies are beyond reproach. Wasn't thinking: Lunch time and a glass of red, Grange actually, can make one a little less sharp with one's observations.

                                    Commenter
                                    Pluto
                                    Location
                                    Melbourne
                                    Date and time
                                    August 28, 2014, 1:10PM
                                  • Who said they are selling it? Pollies wouldn't pay for it surely?

                                    Commenter
                                    Eljay
                                    Location
                                    Riverwood
                                    Date and time
                                    August 28, 2014, 1:13PM
                                  • The LNP members wouldn't be there if they had to pay for it.

                                    Commenter
                                    Dr Bombay
                                    Location
                                    Sydney
                                    Date and time
                                    August 28, 2014, 1:22PM
                                • Try again.
                                  10.48
                                  "Don't worry Clive, I just need to borrow your hanky".

                                  Commenter
                                  A country gal
                                  Date and time
                                  August 28, 2014, 12:52PM
                                  • Basically in Abbottism the senate is dealing with an inward thinking government, whose policies are no longer relevant and belong to a bygone age, policies rendered obsolete by opposing overall wealth generation by individualising wealth generation to a few.

                                    Despite net debt levels as a percentage of GDP having exceeded 10.0% ten times (mainly in the 1990s), individual wealth generation dictates Abbottism cuts, slashes and lies.

                                    We have been told lies about the carbon tax.

                                    We are told a multitude of fabrications while government tries to sell Direct Action.

                                    Government deliberately decimated the green power industry and orchestrated its job losses.

                                    Abbottism deliberately slashed welfare spending.

                                    Abbottism fabricated the health of the Great Barrier Reef to facilitate dumping silt into the waters of the Great Barrier Reef National Park to enhance coal production.

                                    Abbott falsely claimed each household would save $550 by repealing the carbon tax.

                                    Now they continue to lie claiming a reduced power capacity requirement because of too much green energy. Meanwhile the Bureau of Resources and Energy Economics show a 1.3% increase requirement of power capacity every year for the next decade. Therefore, individual wealth in the coal industry makes an additional $12.533 billion by destroying green energy expansion and countless jobs in Australia.

                                    Abbott also defies the intent of the high court by funding the teaching of an absurd religion in state schools, one that most, if not all, teachers do not understand its metaphoric language.

                                    Abbott is creating a new class system by allowing individual wealthy a university education to the cost of overall education.

                                    Abbott would impose medical charges on the sick and the poor and on those who can least afford them.

                                    Abbottism is a disreputable government that deserves nothing but the harshest treatment by the senate because it doesn’t represent Australians.

                                    Commenter
                                    Pen of hrba
                                    Date and time
                                    August 28, 2014, 12:58PM
                                    • I believe with regret that LNP in a sea of political travesty committed, unfortunately is the government we have. The possibility of realizing a DD with a very weak opposition precedes the nature of our political dissolutions.

                                      Commenter
                                      Postgirl
                                      Date and time
                                      August 28, 2014, 1:11PM
                                    • + 100
                                      Pen for PM......please..!

                                      Commenter
                                      and sundrt
                                      Location
                                      croydon
                                      Date and time
                                      August 28, 2014, 1:18PM
                                  • For goodness sake someone give Uncle Clive a roll of paper and then send him off to the little room, lock it, and throw away the key.

                                    Commenter
                                    Pen of hrba
                                    Date and time
                                    August 28, 2014, 1:10PM
                                    • Not before he blocks supply and rids us of this sinking ship of fools.

                                      Commenter
                                      Save us PUP
                                      Date and time
                                      August 28, 2014, 1:19PM
                                  • There we have it: more porkies than one can shake a stick at?

                                    Commenter
                                    Pen of hrba
                                    Date and time
                                    August 28, 2014, 1:14PM
                                    • Hey @EiE, you know how yesterday you came up with Headache Bill, cos he was photographed in front of headache tablets?

                                      Can't wait to see what you come up with Barnaby!!

                                      Commenter
                                      davemac
                                      Location
                                      Melbourne
                                      Date and time
                                      August 28, 2014, 1:18PM
                                        • How about: Agriculture Minister promotes Australian pork farmers with free BBQ.
                                          I can space it out if you have trouble reading it plus best use primary school phonetics. See, you are progressing well. But no arts degree for you today.

                                          Commenter
                                          enough is enough
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 1:28PM
                                        • Naaah @EiE, not your best work.

                                          D Minus.

                                          Commenter
                                          davemac
                                          Location
                                          Melbourne
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 1:36PM
                                        • Barnaby "All Pork" Joyce...oink oink, snouts in trough....come and have a piece of pork at our BBQ and learn how we do it!

                                          Commenter
                                          JT
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 1:36PM
                                        • Dave that was a poor attempt by your honourable friend.
                                          How about
                                          "Pig Iron Barnaby"? Err no he's not in the Menzies league.

                                          Commenter
                                          A country gal
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 1:37PM
                                        • He's in such shock to be confronted with so many porkies that's he, sadly, has had to take an entire packet of Panadol and is now brushing up the resumé to send off 40 times a month.

                                          Commenter
                                          Spin doctors on the dole
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 1:38PM
                                        • Now that's what I'm talking about @ACG.

                                          Come on @EiE.... have another crack at it.

                                          Commenter
                                          davemac
                                          Location
                                          Melbourne
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 1:40PM
                                        • How about Oinkaby Joyce. Not a bar to be heard amongst all that swine and very few people want a bar of this government so best drop the Bar and replace with an Oink. Oinkaby Joyce fits well with the "end of the age of entitlements except for, oink oink, us with our snouts in the trough already" LNP.

                                          Commenter
                                          Deafening
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 1:50PM
                                        • Looks like Ken McPherson has got the office staff working hard on their comments today. Hasn't Shorten's office staff got anything else to do?

                                          Commenter
                                          enough is enough
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 2:06PM
                                        • "Barnaby The Boar"
                                          "Baconesque Barnaby"
                                          "Sus Barnaby" - (sus being the genus for pigs)

                                          Commenter
                                          A country gal
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 2:06PM
                                        • Brainless Barnaby because... well he is. Actually he is quite smart and really does give a dam about the bush but he has terminal foot in mouth disease which is why they bumped him fro the finance ministers role.

                                          Commenter
                                          Lance
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 2:08PM
                                        • @ enough is enough:

                                          ['Where's 'Nigel no friends' Plibersek?']

                                          She is seated to the left - how appropriate - of the LOTO, looking resplendent, and ready to given your man a serve or two.

                                          ['I can space it out if you have trouble reading it...']

                                          Try playing the ball, not the man.

                                          Commenter
                                          Jason of Gold Coast
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 2:10PM
                                        • eie
                                          Well he has to do something for farmers given he let the Russians take hundreds of millions out of their pockets without so much as a squeek!

                                          Commenter
                                          rext
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 2:19PM
                                        • Jason, you will have to cut/paste to the actual relevant comment above this thread. Better luck next time.

                                          Commenter
                                          enough is enough
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 2:21PM
                                        • 'Someone's bacon is well and truly cooking over at the Royal Commission' says Agriculture Minister. There you go how's that one?

                                          Commenter
                                          enough is enough
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 2:38PM
                                        • No, no no @EiE, that's worse thatn your first attempt!

                                          We aren't after a quote, but a word to describe your man. Go back to Headache Bill and start from there.

                                          Sorry, have to fail you there old bean.

                                          Commenter
                                          davemac
                                          Location
                                          Melbourne
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 2:44PM
                                        • Ditto. Dave, no sense of adventure has he.
                                          Are they putting the pressure on Pell, hope so.

                                          Commenter
                                          A country gal
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 2:53PM
                                      • Bishop again cleaning up Rudd and his diplomatic mess. What a great Foreign Minister Bishop is. Where's 'Nigel no friends' Plibersek?

                                        Commenter
                                        enough is enough
                                        Date and time
                                        August 28, 2014, 1:30PM
                                        • Tell that to the Chinese!!!!

                                          Commenter
                                          knowsnothingbutspin
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 1:39PM
                                        • are you saying that it's taken this long for Bishop to fix Abbott's mess when he wouldn't take ownership as the elected leader of the govt of this country? All I can say, is that the Indonesians are very patient.

                                          Commenter
                                          JT
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 1:40PM
                                        • Looks like I've unleashed @EiE for the day. Damn.

                                          OK, here we go.

                                          Dunno @EiE....where is she?
                                          @EiE: Behind you Behind you.
                                          Where?

                                          Commenter
                                          davemac
                                          Location
                                          Melbourne
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 1:44PM
                                        • EiE
                                          I think you mean Abbott's mess.
                                          If he had acted like a grown up instead of trying to blame everyone else, Bishop would never have had a problem.
                                          Abbott will go down in history as the only government to EVER apologise for spying.
                                          No other leader has ever been so stupid.

                                          Commenter
                                          Steve
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 2:02PM
                                        • EiE.,
                                          You're starting to sound like you are
                                          talking in your sleep,
                                          getting a bit too "old' for the gig.?

                                          Commenter
                                          and sundry
                                          Location
                                          croydon
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 2:06PM
                                      • FOFA passed. Doing the banks' bidding like compliant puppies.

                                        Commenter
                                        Xhasin
                                        Location
                                        Sydney
                                        Date and time
                                        August 28, 2014, 1:52PM
                                        • Perhaps 160,000 of Macquarie Bank’s clients left millions out of pocket arising out of negligent advice do not fall under the umbrella of what constitute “consumers” of the FoFA reforms.

                                          Commenter
                                          Postgirl
                                          Date and time
                                          August 28, 2014, 1:53PM
                                          • Waiting for release of government review into the renewable energy target is a bit like watching the movie "Titanic" and wondering how it will end.

                                            Commenter
                                            Immal
                                            Date and time
                                            August 28, 2014, 2:00PM
                                            • Is that a government minister facing a grilling? Sad reflection of a weak opposition when the only grilling Joyce faces is a BBQ'd porkchop.

                                              Commenter
                                              Piped Piper
                                              Date and time
                                              August 28, 2014, 2:01PM
                                              • Have a nice weekend everyone - my viewing choice for this afternoon is Midsomer Murders - much prefer the English village to the playground - andf the good guys always win the day.

                                                Commenter
                                                Blue Tie Ineptitude
                                                Date and time
                                                August 28, 2014, 2:04PM
                                                • Actually, have you noticed that the murders in Midsomer Murders are usually multiple? More than one unpopular villager usually gets the chop. It's by sheer force of will that it is happening more slowly among the current members of the government front bench.

                                                  Commenter
                                                  Pluto
                                                  Location
                                                  Melbourne
                                                  Date and time
                                                  August 28, 2014, 2:22PM
                                                • I know what you mean BTI. The sad thing is though I've seen those old eps at least 10 times each by now (and I'm not exaggerating - I only watch the ABC). Funny thing is that often I can't quite recall what happens and who is the baddie (probably because I'm often following the forums here), but have a negative feeling about a character. They end up being the murderer! This is what happens in politics. While our brain discards much of the unneeded detail, our emotional centres retain a take-home message about someone. Once that is set, it is very hard to change. Once a pollie is on the nose, that's the way it will stay (except in rare circumstances).

                                                  Commenter
                                                  Passionfruit
                                                  Location
                                                  Sydney
                                                  Date and time
                                                  August 28, 2014, 2:23PM
                                              • Oh Goody - so lets see -after some Pork on the Fork wonder how "down on his mojo" Smokin Joe will fare, Can Lazurus Mal make a comeback, and will Ms WA be out-smirking Tony today. Paul Sheehan thinks she might have the goods.

                                                Commenter
                                                MST
                                                Date and time
                                                August 28, 2014, 2:07PM
                                                • Julie Bishop is without doubt the best foreign minister we've had since Gareth Evans; but, unfortunately for this government she is one of only two ministers performing well. The rest are just so so or outright failures. They need a re-shuffle of the front bench.

                                                  Commenter
                                                  Lewis
                                                  Location
                                                  Sydney
                                                  Date and time
                                                  August 28, 2014, 2:08PM
                                                  • Who's the other one? I need some enlightenment on that mystery.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    A country gal
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 2:15PM
                                                  • Lewis
                                                    Unfortunately, when Julie is PM, we won't have a foreign minister.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Steve
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 2:23PM
                                                  • @Lewis:

                                                    I lump Hockey, Brandis, Abetz, Andrews, Pyne & Dutton in the same basket: seat warmers, harbouring views which would fit snugly with Maggie's various ministries; Bush the Younger's two administrations.

                                                    Bishop and Turnbull are by comparison not of the same ideological bent.

                                                    I only hope that the Tories' faceless men don't come to the same conclusion.

                                                    The current lot should be given enough rope.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Jason of Gold Coast
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 3:47PM
                                                • @2.06 Credit to Shorten for taking my advice and asking the question on Iraq. Even though it was soft it is a start and hopefully the start of something more positive

                                                  Commenter
                                                  Piped Piper
                                                  Date and time
                                                  August 28, 2014, 2:11PM
                                                  • But no credit for the answer - we should all write to every LNP Member demanding a proper response - including detailed plans and costings of another "Operation"

                                                    Commenter
                                                    MST
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 2:15PM
                                                  • ['Credit to Shorten for taking my advice...']

                                                    You have Shorten's ear, then, Point Piper(?).

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Jason of Gold Coast
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 2:34PM
                                                • Bill Shorten once again showing us all why he never be P.M of this country. My left big toe has more charisma than him.

                                                  Commenter
                                                  Hodster
                                                  Date and time
                                                  August 28, 2014, 2:11PM
                                                  • And your little toe has more charisma than Abbott and all of his ministers?

                                                    Commenter
                                                    JT
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 2:19PM
                                                  • Hodster
                                                    But Abbott seems to trying his best to make Shorten PM.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Steve
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 2:22PM
                                                  • Sound like you have a very high opinion of your left toe. Does the right one feel undervalued by chance?????

                                                    Commenter
                                                    meganjj
                                                    Location
                                                    melbourne
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 2:32PM
                                                  • Sadly it is another part of my body which is a twin of Tony Abbott. Didn't stop him conning his way to power.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Windy
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 2:35PM
                                                  • Dunno @Hodster W Truss is acting PM when the Captain is abroad.

                                                    Guaranteed good nights sleep. Wind him up and off he plods.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    davemac
                                                    Location
                                                    Melbourne
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 2:40PM
                                                • Abbott is clearly stuck like glue now to Terrorism now that his budget has bitten the dust.Pathetic!

                                                  Commenter
                                                  Daniel
                                                  Location
                                                  Sydney
                                                  Date and time
                                                  August 28, 2014, 2:13PM
                                                  • His issue is that now he has taken credit for single handedly stopping the boats he needs tfind a new fear factor to distract the punters. A nice little war against terror, ISIS and informed debate will do nicely as a new shiny bauble.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Lance
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 2:17PM
                                                  • Daniel
                                                    Unfortunately, only a war will save him.
                                                    That is why he is picking fights with any minority group he can.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Steve
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 2:27PM
                                                  • @ Daniel:

                                                    Agree.

                                                    I think progressives should thank their lucky stars that instability in the world's trouble spots is early in this Government's term.

                                                    Interesting to note, though, that reversing the
                                                    onus of proof for certain sections of the community has apparently been given the flick.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Jason of Gold Coast
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 2:29PM
                                                • Shorten politicising the ANZAC Centenary. What is it with this guy?

                                                  Commenter
                                                  enough is enough
                                                  Date and time
                                                  August 28, 2014, 2:23PM
                                                  • ['Shorten politicising the ANZAC Centenary.']

                                                    If you interpret a broken promise re. funding for the War Memorial, then I guess you're right.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Jason of Gold Coast
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 2:42PM
                                                  • @EiE

                                                    You always keep us hanging with your posts in the form of questions. Please tell us, pretty please. Don't leave us hanging for your sage words of wisdom.

                                                    An example:

                                                    @EiE always posts mindless rubbish that usually has a go at women. What's with this guy?

                                                    See, I know the answer, but aren't telling. Annoying, isn't it? (Another question.)

                                                    Commenter
                                                    davemac
                                                    Location
                                                    Melbourne
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 2:49PM
                                                  • shorten is a walking disaster...who in their right mind decided that multiple questions should be raised on this "issue"??

                                                    Commenter
                                                    hodster
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 2:52PM
                                                  • And every second dixer being about the budget 'repair' or Tony saving the planet is OK?

                                                    Commenter
                                                    davemac
                                                    Location
                                                    Melbourne
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 3:03PM
                                                  • I agree dixers are a ridiculous waste of time... but the Labor question time strategy has been woeful .. Shorten doesn't cut the mustard, he looks way out of his depth.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    hodster
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 3:10PM
                                                  • Someone should stand up and say that the hundreds of millions to be spent on Anzac centenary celebrations is ridiculous. Abbott and co are spending more than France and UK combined.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Dr Bombay
                                                    Location
                                                    Sydney
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 3:28PM
                                                  • hodster
                                                    Even the RSL thinks it is a bad decision.
                                                    They are praising Shorten for keeping the pressure on.
                                                    For a guy who wants everything to be a war, Abbott has shown no respect for the memories of the victims of war.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Steve
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 3:29PM
                                                  • Yes DaveMac, that's what they call methodical.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Dr Bombay
                                                    Location
                                                    Sydney
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 3:31PM
                                                • crikey, isn't the Budget what they should be talking about rather than travelling exhibitions. And we pay these clowns.
                                                  there'll be more names in the AWM if the chest eater gets his way.
                                                  Back to the issues of the Budget that affect us in our daily lives.

                                                  Commenter
                                                  A country gal
                                                  Date and time
                                                  August 28, 2014, 2:29PM
                                                  • Was that a question or a rant from the agrarian socialist in the hat? Bob we live in the 21st century and competing on an international stage. It's not the 60's anymore where we were rule by tariffs and protectionism. You can thank the union movement for forcing Qantas offshoring.

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Piped Piper
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 2:37PM
                                                    • PP
                                                      No, Katter recognises that Qantas holds a virtual monopoly for many regional routes and Joyce is killing the company.
                                                      Joyce's ideologically driven decisions have ruined the airline. And like Patricks and Reith, he appears to be killing the company to support a LNP policy.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Steve
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 28, 2014, 3:07PM
                                                  • We do not need Super Hornets to drop bombs in Syria or Iraq whilst Alan Joyce drops the bombs from Qantas on the Australian people

                                                    Commenter
                                                    Koel
                                                    Date and time
                                                    August 28, 2014, 2:38PM
                                                    • @eieio @2:26 - only a spin doctor would know - or care - the name of another spin doctor.

                                                      Commenter
                                                      Plenty of money for spin, nothing for schools
                                                      Date and time
                                                      August 28, 2014, 2:40PM
                                                      • 2.39 The clock is stopped at zero, and so too is the economy Joe.
                                                        Ask any small business owner how things have been in the last year.
                                                        They won't be telling you the economy is stronger. Totally deluded.

                                                        Commenter
                                                        A country gal
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 28, 2014, 2:45PM
                                                        • @ A country gal:

                                                          ['Ask any small business owner how things have been in the last year.']

                                                          Such is becoming evident on the Gold Coast, anecdotally evidenced by the increasing number of retail shop lessees terminating their leases.

                                                          Commenter
                                                          Jason of Gold Coast
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 28, 2014, 3:03PM
                                                        • Libs clocks are stopped at 1962, Nats at 1952.

                                                          Commenter
                                                          davemac
                                                          Location
                                                          Melbourne
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 28, 2014, 3:07PM
                                                        • Jason only ones opening up in my area are the Big Guys aka Chains and subsequently the smaller ones already struggling are forced to close.
                                                          I know of quite a few long standing businesses in different fields that are trying to sell, absolutely no interest. Even though. I'm retired I still take an interest in the 'game' and know a lot of owners and still talk 'shop'. Those that are up for sale have all said if they don't sell within 'x' amount of time they are closing.
                                                          It's a common theme, there is no confidence.
                                                          And I say this apolitically, it's just a fact.
                                                          What makes it worse is the Govt is refuting the evidence and lying.

                                                          Commenter
                                                          A country gal
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 28, 2014, 3:19PM
                                                        • Oh great economist Jason....ever heard of online trading ??? Think that might have anything to do with closures of retail premises anywhere on planet earth?

                                                          Commenter
                                                          Sick of the left
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 28, 2014, 3:27PM
                                                        • SOTL
                                                          I don't know what type of businesses Jason is referring to but obviously retail. I'm talking across the board here - Hardware, Nurseries, Hospitality, Homeware, Mechanical, Hotels, Floorcovering, Hairdresser etc
                                                          B&M clothing and shoe stores in my local towns already gone and yes online affected them, proverbial last nail.

                                                          Commenter
                                                          A country gal
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 28, 2014, 3:48PM
                                                      • 2:39 I know the Libs are into repetition, but isn't this taking it a bit far?

                                                        Commenter
                                                        davemac
                                                        Location
                                                        Melbourne
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 28, 2014, 2:45PM
                                                        • hahahahaha

                                                          Commenter
                                                          Daniel
                                                          Location
                                                          Sydney
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 28, 2014, 2:56PM
                                                      • If Madame Speaker keeps to form, her total s.94(a) suspensions will reach 200 this session.

                                                        Commenter
                                                        Jason of Gold Coast
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 28, 2014, 2:48PM
                                                        • @Jason. The ALP have been a bit belligerent since taking opposition. To be fair though, Burke was a fairer and more impartial speaker than Bishop. I'll give the ALP that.

                                                          Commenter
                                                          Piped Piper
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 28, 2014, 2:56PM
                                                        • @PP:

                                                          Chris Bowen pipes up with a point of order: "The Prime Minister's being mean and tricky. He's misleading the house."

                                                          Bowen is kicked out.

                                                          Commenter
                                                          davemac
                                                          Location
                                                          Melbourne
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 28, 2014, 3:05PM
                                                        • 'Belligerence' is difficult to assess.

                                                          Vigorous discourse, interjections, etc, in the House have always been a feature of the Westminster model.

                                                          Bishop, J's propensity to apply s.94(a) should be judged by the ejections of previous speakers, which I'd hazard guess is well in excess of her predecessors.

                                                          Speaker Bishop has displayed both bias and appended bias, examples of which abound.

                                                          Commenter
                                                          Jason of Gold Coast
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 28, 2014, 3:18PM
                                                        • Cannot believe you just said that PP. In the black and white world of LNP lovers, EVRYTHING that LNP does is good and comversely everything that Labor do is Bad. There is NO GREY area.

                                                          Commenter
                                                          F&F Man
                                                          Location
                                                          Melbourne
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 28, 2014, 3:23PM
                                                        • It is truly sad what Bishop has done o the office of Speaker.
                                                          Burke, Slipper, Jenkins. All great Speakers.
                                                          Bishop is a disaster.

                                                          Commenter
                                                          Steve
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 28, 2014, 3:25PM
                                                      • Joe, how is the economy stronger when unemployment has risen significantly and economic growth forecasts are not promising? What's your definition of stronger by chance?

                                                        Commenter
                                                        JT
                                                        Date and time
                                                        August 28, 2014, 2:50PM
                                                        • cutting pension indexation is completely true.....if the pension is indexed by inflation not male wages then it will be a cut even if the pension is higher...it is higher but to a lesser degree.....Abbott does mislead the parliament and the public

                                                          Commenter
                                                          JT
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 28, 2014, 3:01PM
                                                          • Labor needs to make that point strongly. Rephrase Howard's lie that "I will guarantee that pensions are always going to be lower under a Coalition government."

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Paul
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 28, 2014, 3:28PM
                                                          • A rise is a rise is a rise ... A decrease in a potential future rise does not a cut make !

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Doc
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 28, 2014, 5:31PM
                                                          • O yes it does Doc.....if a pensioner by 2020 is $7000 worse off than they would otherwise be without the cuts to indexation...that is a cut by any other words....just like a levy is a tax by any other words and a cut or get less money by any other words....no matter how tricky and smart you think you are...it is a cut. This sort of misleading with language I dare say the public just hate and will punish Abbott for it....who is the smart one then?

                                                            Commenter
                                                            JT
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 28, 2014, 5:47PM
                                                        • I've got news, supply charges have gone up how does that help, I'll be sending all my future energy bills to Abbott with a please explain. The hairdresser is still charging the same considering they were named as a group that used loads of electricity shouldn't the price gone down?

                                                          Commenter
                                                          Amro
                                                          Date and time
                                                          August 28, 2014, 3:07PM
                                                          • Clive Palmer would be able to hear Joe Hockey rant while in the toilets today.

                                                            Commenter
                                                            Tim
                                                            Location
                                                            Inner City
                                                            Date and time
                                                            August 28, 2014, 3:12PM
                                                            • Labor didn't have a plan for looking after the kids . . . LNP do - it is called the Nanny

                                                              Commenter
                                                              MST
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 28, 2014, 3:15PM
                                                              • The ALP do have a plan: to have a nice big pile of debt.

                                                                The mining boom has to end some time, but hey, if the ALP says 'she'll be right' - the LNP obviously must be lying (cos of cigars, budgies and blue ties right??).

                                                                We really should stop worrying, lie back and believe the Shorten-sighted Plan.

                                                                Commenter
                                                                Pork Barrelling for the ALP
                                                                Date and time
                                                                August 28, 2014, 4:11PM
                                                              • You must be in the same company as EiE with a blurb like that ??? What has that got to do with Childcare ?

                                                                Commenter
                                                                Blue Tie Ineptitude
                                                                Date and time
                                                                August 28, 2014, 4:25PM
                                                            • That child the ALP talked about would be under a GP care Plan which remains under the LNP so that child would be looked after just like now Its Bogus to say that disabled child would be worse off

                                                              Commenter
                                                              john
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 28, 2014, 3:16PM
                                                              • john
                                                                If that was truly the case, why can't anyone in the LNP just say so. Why avoid the question?

                                                                Commenter
                                                                Steve
                                                                Date and time
                                                                August 28, 2014, 3:32PM
                                                            • Fact: All PUPs that survive become Dogs.
                                                              Opinion ; Some get there faster!

                                                              Commenter
                                                              Ponder
                                                              Date and time
                                                              August 28, 2014, 3:19PM
                                                              • Why is Bishop allowing both Abbott and Hockey o mislead the house and to avoid answering questions.
                                                                Can we find a Speaker please?

                                                                Commenter
                                                                Steve
                                                                Date and time
                                                                August 28, 2014, 3:22PM
                                                                • would be if they could be novice dictators obviously don't like to justify what they are doing..they mislead and don't answer and if there are no opposition left to ask questions all is OK in dictator land! Bishop is just performing what she gets paid to do by the dictators.

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  JT
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 28, 2014, 3:37PM
                                                                • hey steve...since when has question time been about answering questions?? When did that start happening??

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  hodster
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 28, 2014, 3:43PM
                                                                • @Bishop. I agree Bishop has been exceptionally harsh and biased today. I didn't think Bowen or Ellis did much wrong besides rudely interrupting like both parties usually do anyway.

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  Piped Piper
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 28, 2014, 3:54PM
                                                                • Is there any point at all to QT??

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  davemac
                                                                  Location
                                                                  Melbourne
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 28, 2014, 4:01PM
                                                                • hodster
                                                                  Jenkins, Slipper and Burke used to force Ministers to answer questions.

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  Steve
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 28, 2014, 5:12PM
                                                              • Geez i've missed all the QT fun - Plibersek is trying the line again about $80 billion in cuts.

                                                                Ms Plibersek - could you please identify where in any state or federal budget we can find something, anything, to substantiate your $80 billion claim ?

                                                                The Premiers gave that one up two months ago, why hasn't Labor ?

                                                                Commenter
                                                                Hacka
                                                                Location
                                                                Canberra
                                                                Date and time
                                                                August 28, 2014, 3:28PM
                                                                • Hacka
                                                                  So what is the true level of cuts in your opinion.
                                                                  79?
                                                                  78?

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  Steve
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 28, 2014, 3:35PM
                                                                • 99
                                                                  100
                                                                  200
                                                                  500

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  MST
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 28, 2014, 3:37PM
                                                                • Keep going Steve, about another 78 to go ....

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  Hacka
                                                                  Location
                                                                  Canberra
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 28, 2014, 3:39PM
                                                                • Oops - the "500" figure is actually the current Budget Deficit forecast - $500B - about double what it was a year ago. And I thought the credit card was maxed out last September Joe ???

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  MST
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 28, 2014, 3:46PM
                                                                • So what I want to know is why are the cuts to states re health & education and pensioner concessions not transparent as those extra funds given to states for school chaplains are and which bypass the constitution?

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  JT
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 28, 2014, 3:47PM
                                                                • JT - because it is always easy for the LNP Top End of Town supporter to count funds coming their way

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  Blue Tie Ineptitude
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 28, 2014, 3:57PM
                                                                • MST - more like December it was going to max out, a parting Christmas present from Labor to Australia.

                                                                  Now i know Wayne Swan was bad, but not even he could deliver a half trillion dollar deficit, and i doubt Joe can either.

                                                                  So none of you support Plibersek's fiscal forgetfulness ?

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  Hacka
                                                                  Location
                                                                  Canberra
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 28, 2014, 4:02PM
                                                                • What @H, so the Premiers (all except for Barnett with his lips firmly on TAs bottom) were wrong?

                                                                  Probably have bigger fish to fry now - Dr N trying to get re-elected; NSW=rabble, Qld plummetiing polls etc etc

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  davemac
                                                                  Location
                                                                  Melbourne
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 28, 2014, 4:06PM
                                                                • Well unless LNP find a negotiating genie in a bottle and can sweet talk the Senate $500b is looking shy . .

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  MST
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 28, 2014, 4:14PM
                                                                • Hacka
                                                                  So you are saying Joe cannot add up.
                                                                  He was the one saying he had to make savings and you say he was even unsuccessful at that.
                                                                  This government is even more hopeless than we thought.

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  Steve
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 28, 2014, 5:10PM
                                                              • Smokin had to agree that a "levy" was a tax by another name . . now we have Truthless Tony with not a "cut" to a budget - but a "reallocation" - at this rate the Oxford Dictionery will need a rewrite

                                                                Commenter
                                                                MST
                                                                Date and time
                                                                August 28, 2014, 3:43PM
                                                                • So... Labor is complaining about all cuts, yt refuses to raise any tax, yet wants more spending... Where is THEIR alternative? or is it just all about the 'me, me, me' attitude.
                                                                  Seems that they learnt nothing from the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd years...

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  No, No, No... Me, Me, Me
                                                                  Location
                                                                  All we want to be is on camera
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 28, 2014, 3:54PM
                                                                  • Oh - I think ALP would support reduction in handouts to those in receipt of FBT rorts, Negative Gearing, Family Trusts, Corporate Tax advantages, foreign companies not paying tax, Diesel Tax concessions, 457 visa rorts for employers . . . . . and all those that can hide personal expenditure behind $1 campanies

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    Blue Tie Ineptitude
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    August 28, 2014, 4:02PM
                                                                  • No no no......... seem to me Labor had a carbon tax and it was the LNP that dumped it without dumping the associated compensation. Brilliant move in a budget emergency.

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    Sharyn
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    August 28, 2014, 4:04PM
                                                                  • Remind me me me ...who is in government?

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    davemac
                                                                    Location
                                                                    Melbourne
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    August 28, 2014, 4:07PM
                                                                  • No no no
                                                                    As I recall, Labor lost the election.
                                                                    If you want them to govern, ask Tony to bring on the promised DD.
                                                                    I'm sure they would be happy (and more than capable) to clean up Abbott's mess.

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    Steve
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    August 28, 2014, 4:22PM
                                                                  • So, the plan is (maybe?) increase tax, then increase handouts? Or just increase handouts?

                                                                    Reminds me of the pinks batts, the failed border control policies, the great NBN overspend, and wastage of boom years for $1k handouts...

                                                                    All the ALP have proven themselves great at is spending what they don't have. Shorten-sighted.

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    Enraged Sock-puppet
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    August 28, 2014, 4:23PM
                                                                  • davemac - i'd be happy to remind you who's in government, and every day of it reminds us that we're an extra day beyond those ghastly wrecking years of recent times.

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    Hacka
                                                                    Location
                                                                    Canberra
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    August 28, 2014, 4:30PM
                                                                  • Blue- Your sarcasm is justified.

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    David Morrison
                                                                    Location
                                                                    Blue Mountains
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    August 28, 2014, 5:12PM
                                                                • This is ridiculous. They can't claim that the carbon tax was ineffective AND that Qantas is better off without it.
                                                                  It either raised funds or it didn't, and there was an article recently where Qantas stated the scrapping of the tax would have no impact on prices.

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  Oliver More
                                                                  Location
                                                                  Melb
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 28, 2014, 4:00PM
                                                                  • It was very effective in raising the cost of living and the operational costs for Australian companies but did nothing to reduce CO2 emissions. The only way we could have met the 5% target would have been to buy permits from shonky operators overseas. Another great policy failure from the inventors of the mining tax that raised no money.

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    Airato
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    August 28, 2014, 4:17PM
                                                                  • Logic has nothing to do with this government of liars and slogan chanters.

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    Tony2
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    August 28, 2014, 4:35PM
                                                                • 4:01

                                                                  Come on...it's Delores Umbridge. You all see it, right?

                                                                  Commenter
                                                                  davemac
                                                                  Location
                                                                  Melbourne
                                                                  Date and time
                                                                  August 28, 2014, 4:08PM
                                                                  • I am wondering is Abbott Labor's best asset or is it Hockey ?

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    Karma
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    August 28, 2014, 4:11PM
                                                                    • With both of the them in the mix the ALP could do a National Party and put a sheep as a candidate and get it elected.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Blue Tie Ineptitude
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:21PM
                                                                  • Now that Qantas has financially bottomed out we can now expect Doug Cameron to lead the charge with Tony Sheldon to demand wage increase, working hour per day reduction, employment of more baggage handlers, rolling stoppages and wild cat strikes just to make sure Qantas starts sinking again. As night follows day you can guarantee this will happen soon. Shorten will jump on the bandwagon. This is the ALP way of politics.

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    enough is enough
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    August 28, 2014, 4:13PM
                                                                    • All I expect is that the Board and MD will fall on their swords.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Blue Tie Ineptitude
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:19PM
                                                                    • Qantas could return to profit by paying their employees $1.20c per hour (everyone knows they want to) but when that happens and they are still losing money, what will be your excuse then?

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      The Boofheads Are In Charge
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:20PM
                                                                    • I thought Qantas was sinking because of the carbon tax?

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      davemac
                                                                      Location
                                                                      Melbourne
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:25PM
                                                                    • Hardly a mention of Qantas from the ALP today. Why would it? It's representatives were instrumental in encouraging them to go offshore and the jobs that remained had astronomical wages. How you suppose to compete at an international level? All we got is some obscure war memorial drivel

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Piped Piper
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:26PM
                                                                    • EiE
                                                                      Joyce has proved more than capable at trashing Qantas.
                                                                      It is obvious that he is angling to sell it. He must be on a promise of a big bonus if he does.
                                                                      But in the meantime, he is pandering to LNP ideologies. Is that because his long term plan is to get the Qantas Sale Act amended?

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Steve
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:28PM
                                                                    • And if the government fired its battalion of useless spin doctors, perhaps a few elderly sick people could go to the doctor. Spare us the usual whine.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Knows nothing but Spin
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:32PM
                                                                    • and the CEO's and the Directors will all take a pay cut as well and receive 0 bonus. I think not hey.....

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Jedi the true warrior
                                                                      Location
                                                                      Brisbane
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:11PM
                                                                  • Pen, could you give us a two sentence review of the RET report? Just something short, punchy and without using the calculator.

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    enough is enough
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    August 28, 2014, 4:15PM
                                                                    • Biased and predicable - just look at who the Chairman is. Another job for the Boys.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Pen
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:18PM
                                                                    • EiE - just had a look at the recommendations and it recommend lower energy prices for Australians.

                                                                      There's a few interesting options, but effectively it suggests lowering the RET.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Hacka
                                                                      Location
                                                                      Canberra
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:19PM
                                                                    • I can @EiE

                                                                      Rigged report engineered to provide the answer the Libs required. Yawn.

                                                                      Next. Two years to go.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      davemac
                                                                      Location
                                                                      Melbourne
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:23PM
                                                                    • How about this: Abbott has killed investment just by saying he might kill the RET. Investors (in all areas, not just renewable energy) will now think twice about investing in Australia with a government prone to backflip on investment guarantees - now too risky for them.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      The Boofheads Are In Charge
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:25PM
                                                                    • The crux of the 160 pages RET Report claims that RET investors will be given massive tax rebates and offsets due to the inevitable global warming eroding the supply of ice on martinis consumed by LNP elites.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Postgirl
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:37PM
                                                                    • Well Boof - in terms of killing industries, don't you remember what happened to the car industry, cattle industry, leasing industry and mining industries under Labor ?

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Hacka
                                                                      Location
                                                                      Canberra
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:43PM
                                                                    • EiE
                                                                      The exec summary says that prices will go up when the RET is abolished.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Steve
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:58PM
                                                                    • Tell us @H. Try to intersperse your reply with some degree of fact. For one...pretty sure that Hockey basically gave Holden their marching orders.

                                                                      And mining? Hang on are you saying the mining tax was a triumph?

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      davemac
                                                                      Location
                                                                      Melbourne
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:59PM
                                                                    • @ Hack - and gee, aren't the Libs doing so well! Biggest collapse in the OECD in the past 12 months with a massive blow to budget debt by Black Hole Holidaying Hockey, highest youth unemployment, no car industry. Your chest must swell with pride - the rest of us are just flabbergasted with the spin.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Plenty of money for spin.
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:08PM
                                                                    • Hacks - Car industry: Labor nurtured it, the Liberals abandoned it. Cattle industry: I'm no bleeding heart but is it OK to torture cattle to death? - please answer a simple yes or no to that question. Leasing industry: what a rort! Mining industries: they make so much profit in the high times that surely they can spare a bit of sovereign coinage for the people of Australia whose minerals they are exporting (they also export most of the resulting cash).

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      The Boofheads Are In Charge
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:13PM
                                                                    • I've got a slogan for you ""Another Broken Promise" is that enough for you!

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Get Real
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:18PM
                                                                    • With respect, there is now an increasing demand for the supply of new entrepreneurs eager to fuel our economic growth: the innovative SPIN & LIES industries – if we boost these industries, we can improve economic growth.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Postgirl
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:21PM
                                                                    • @Hacka, didn't the car industry die under Abbott, mining boomed under Labor after Howard wasted it. The cattle and produce industry are suffering because of Abbott's tough talk against the Russians. Do put a bit of thought before you attempt to spin.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Confused
                                                                      Location
                                                                      La La Land
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:23PM
                                                                    • Hacka whatever happened to those industries under Labor will be peanuts compared to what will happen to them under LNP....after one term of this nonsense they will pay to have Labor back, and so will everyone else! Clive Robin Hood Palmer to the rescue! DD election ASAP.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      JT
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:31PM
                                                                  • And what did we learn in the first week back?
                                                                    Dixers are forever predictable and a deflection from any meaningful and relevant topic.
                                                                    Labor's Q's are boring and predictable. Time they started going for the jugular on Budgetary matters. The cuts to the AWM are real but hardly affecting the everyday lives of marginalised Australians.
                                                                    The Govt and especially its Team Captain do not answer Q's and when they do it is often with a lie.
                                                                    Cross benchers Q's are at least well considered.
                                                                    "Barnaby The Boar" likes Pork Chops and Barrels.
                                                                    Madame Speaker keeps up to her well earned reputation as Dolores.
                                                                    The Team Captain is more obsessed with Terrorists and what's happening OS than "at home" issues, preferring to deflect. He's being white anted and hopefully a challenge is in the wings.
                                                                    Oh and Kevin Andrews is "Natural".

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    A country gal
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    August 28, 2014, 4:27PM
                                                                    • I'll bet my last quid that about 10% of those 'Congress of Families' types will be marching in a gay pride parade within a decade.

                                                                      ......not that there's anything wrong with that.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      The Boofheads Are In Charge
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:39PM
                                                                    • A succinct and accurate summary, acg.

                                                                      And as for 'Kevin Andrews is "Natural"', the question surely is, a natural what?

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Gigondas
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:00PM
                                                                    • There kids probably already are. And yes ten years should get a few more out of the closet.
                                                                      What's also worth betting the new block of the ultra right (RUP, DLP, CDP) have front row seats and Andrews and Finn will be having a little chat with them.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      A country gal
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:02PM
                                                                  • Another example of Greenomics at 4:32 - Milne seriously thinks that removing the RET would increase energy prices, contrary to the advice of rational economists.

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    Hacka
                                                                    Location
                                                                    Canberra
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    August 28, 2014, 4:35PM
                                                                    • Hacka
                                                                      I think she may have read the report. After all it says "overall, the RET is exerting some downward pressure on wholesale electricity prices."
                                                                      So obviously without it, prices will go up.
                                                                      Or is that too complex for the squaddies to understand?

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Steve
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:54PM
                                                                    • @H good to see you are rewriting history - yesterday you were 'on the fence' re RET but agreeing that within 7 years prices come down. And today you are just back on the spinwagon.

                                                                      Everything has to be rigged by this farce of a govt - from the most biased speaker in history to getting mates to write every report that validates them breaking election promises.

                                                                      And you cheer them on from the sidelines.

                                                                      Have you no honour sir? Have you no honour?

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      davemac
                                                                      Location
                                                                      Melbourne
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:56PM
                                                                    • "rational economists"? You mean paid up spin doctors and we all know how much their word is worth.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      SFA
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:05PM
                                                                    • No mention of yet another broken promise coming there deflector!

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Get Real
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:16PM
                                                                    • Hacka

                                                                      Explain why Abbott is to spend the additional revenue from the petrol increase on roads? Why over the next 5 years one million migrants will arrive on our shores, they will eventually purchase cars and when they are not in gridlock they will drive home on new roads bordering evermore unfordable housing, why? Explain why with the highest population growth in the world we cannot build enough houses. Why the economy of supply and demand dictates more unaffordable housing? Why in 1968 1.5 years’ average salary could purchase a house, today it takes 6.6 years average salary to buy a house?

                                                                      In addition explain why

                                                                      We have had nothing but lies about the carbon tax from the Coalition.

                                                                      They told a multitude of fabrications trying to sell Direct Action.

                                                                      They have deliberately decimated the green power industry and orchestrated its job losses.

                                                                      After indulging falsehoods they deliberately slashed welfare spending.

                                                                      They indulged in fabrications about the health of the Great Barrier Reef to facilitate dumping silt into the waters of the Great Barrier Reef National Park to enhance coal production.

                                                                      The falsely claimed each household would save $550 by repealing the carbon tax.

                                                                      They continue to lie by claiming we have to reduce power capacity because there is too much green power, when the Bureau of Resources and Energy Economics (BREE) show a 1.3% increase requirement of power capacity every year for the next decade, from 260.480 gigawatts to 290.678 gigawatts. Which means at 2000 kilowatts per tonne of coal at $83 per tonne the coal industry makes an additional $12.533 billion by destroying green energy expansion in Australia.

                                                                      Come on, Hacka explain.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Pen of hrba
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:17PM
                                                                    • Actually she is right. It is aproven fact that green energy eventually lowers power prices. Err no fuel to buy is there?

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Pen of hrba
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:26PM
                                                                    • Over the longer term it will. Renewable energy, geddit? You pay for the infrastructure and then a bit of maintenance, the rest is free. Unlike, say, coal. Which when burnt is toxic, but that aside you have to keep paying for it. For as long as you use it.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Ghoti
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:29PM
                                                                    • The Govt Budget is contrary to the views of the same rational economists

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      MST
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:36PM
                                                                    • davemac - not sure where you got that impression about being off the fence, just pointing out the mechanics of it.

                                                                      But in terms of mates, can you remind us who ran the NBN for several years and who he was mates with ? Hint: MQ.

                                                                      Steve - actually squaddies get past the headline and read the substance. You forgot to mention the last part of that Exec Summary sentence - "Over time, all other things being equal, wholesale electricity prices could be expected to rise to better reflect the cost of generating electricity."

                                                                      Any short term price fluctuations are driven by demand and supply factors, not input costs.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Hacka
                                                                      Location
                                                                      Canberra
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:52PM
                                                                  • So now we get to hear from Team Green. I was thinking the ice bucket thing was all the ammunition they had this week. Milne is about to predict Armageddon. Got to keep up appearances.

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    enough is enough
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    August 28, 2014, 4:35PM
                                                                    • EiE
                                                                      Read the report. It says Electricity prices will go up when the RET is abolished
                                                                      Somehow, he thinks that is a good thing.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Steve
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:56PM
                                                                    • I'm starting to get a feeling you don't like the Greens very much @EiE.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      davemac
                                                                      Location
                                                                      Melbourne
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 4:58PM
                                                                  • @ sick of the left:

                                                                    I said my evidence was anecdotal, and I claim no special expertise in economics, though in a previous life it was my lot to advise clients on the viability of entering into retail shop leases.

                                                                    That said, from my research, online shopping amounts to some 7%, projected to rise to 9.8% by 2017.

                                                                    You're surely not to so naive as to believe that online shopping is a principle factor for the closure of so many retail outlets on, for example, the Gold Coast, Australia's tourist capital, are you(?).

                                                                    Far more that to do with a slump in consumer confidence resulting from Hockey's dog-breakfast of a budget.

                                                                    In short, the punters are keeping tight rein on their purses & wallets, evidence for which may be found here:

                                                                    http://www.nielsen.com/content/corporate/au/en/insights/news/2014/consumer-confidence-in-australia-takes-a-fall-in-q1-2014.html

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    Jason of Gold Coast (aka: sick of the right)
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    August 28, 2014, 4:36PM
                                                                    • Well said Jason. The right relies on spin, lies and slogan chanting. No wonder the public at large treat this government and its paid apologists with such contempt.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Sick of the lies
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:12PM
                                                                  • What type of government has to rely on a Speaker to shield them from having to answer questions from the Opposition. Deloris will go down in history as Australia's most biased Speaker and the one that has contributed most to the breakdown of democracy.

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    RTP
                                                                    Location
                                                                    Sawtell
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    August 28, 2014, 4:39PM
                                                                    • No minister has to answer questions.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      David Morrison
                                                                      Location
                                                                      Blue Mountains
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:07PM
                                                                    • Let me try! An inept, unskilled, out of depth gaffe filled bunch of clowns.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Get Real
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:24PM
                                                                    • The 'Natural LNP Family Team of Australia' will never settle for anything less than perfect.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      MBG
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:24PM
                                                                  • Not sure why there is any discussion that the RET might be changed / abolished before 2016. After all, keeping it unchanged is an LNP election commitment. Safe as houses.

                                                                    Commenter
                                                                    Gigondas
                                                                    Date and time
                                                                    August 28, 2014, 5:03PM
                                                                    • The rapid dogs circle, salivating at another looming put down of anything 'environmental'.

                                                                      Can't help themselves, facts, world opinion, expert advice (and mate's advice doesn't count), scientific advice need not be bothered with.

                                                                      Just waiting to pop another bottle of champers and propose a toast to Austraya - land of the luddite.

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      davemac
                                                                      Location
                                                                      Melbourne
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:03PM
                                                                      • Agreed davemac, go the champers. Besides anything, at least Abbott's conducted a review into the RET.

                                                                        Labor generally didn't trouble themselves with any expert analysis, Jules, Wayne and Stephen knew best remember.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        Hacka
                                                                        Location
                                                                        Canberra
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        August 28, 2014, 6:03PM
                                                                    • In regard to the RET RepuTex is an Asian energy research firm that Abbottism selectively uses to further ideals. I state selectively because RepuTex found last year, “Higher electricity bills and a missed renewable energy target: are the most likely outcome if Australia’s carbon price was repealed.
                                                                      The study found that, if this does happen, the price of Large-scale generation certificates (LGC) would rise to near the effective penalty price of A$85/MWh (the price of not purchasing a credit), thus making the development of renewable energy assets uneconomic.
                                                                      This, in turn, would see investment in renewable energy slow – particularly for wind energy, according to the report – potentially resulting in a capacity shortfall of nearly 6GW; meaning that by 2020 only 14 per cent of Australia’s energy would come from renewables – well short of the 20% RET.”

                                                                      So what exactly is Hunt being mindful of?

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      Pen of hrba
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:14PM
                                                                      • This govt is dumb, and even dumber. We have the ex PM of Japan over here telling us to never go nuclear and that none of the 54 nuclear reactors are working there because of Fukushima. He sees a big future in renewable energy electricity worldwide in future. Wouldn't you think a smart Oz govt would go full pelt into developing affordable solar tech for cities and towns and we export the tech. No, not this backward dumb and dumber Abbott and Hunt.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        JT
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        August 28, 2014, 5:54PM
                                                                    • Today was 'Book Week' at the local school. Will Gillard's upcoming R.C. appearance and proposed 'My Story' book launch result in a) a recall and pulping or b) the addition of a new final chapter?

                                                                      Commenter
                                                                      enough is enough
                                                                      Date and time
                                                                      August 28, 2014, 5:14PM
                                                                      • Judith- You do a great job dealing with the stuff that I and others set before you. I hate to think of the sort of unpublishable comments you must have to read and discard.

                                                                        Commenter
                                                                        David Morrison
                                                                        Location
                                                                        Blue Mountains
                                                                        Date and time
                                                                        August 28, 2014, 5:17PM
                                                                        • 4:42pm, is he also very mindful of how many they have broken?

                                                                          Commenter
                                                                          Get Real
                                                                          Date and time
                                                                          August 28, 2014, 5:20PM
                                                                          • The cheapest and the most efficient way to cut emissions is the direct approach by cutting coal and gas production. When one tonne of coal produces 2.86 tonnes of atmospheric Co2 and one year’s coal production produces 1.164 billion tonnes of Co2 we cannot grow enough trees to absorb these amounts as stated by the CSIRO.

                                                                            Commenter
                                                                            Pen of hrba
                                                                            Date and time
                                                                            August 28, 2014, 5:23PM
                                                                            • "Par for the course" for this LDP government ,spin, lies, half truths and stacked reports. The worst I have ever seen and I have seen a lot of pollies in my time

                                                                              Commenter
                                                                              Gary
                                                                              Location
                                                                              sydney
                                                                              Date and time
                                                                              August 28, 2014, 6:04PM
                                                                              Comments are now closed