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Federal Politics

Politics Live: July 18, 2014

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Russia's MH17 response 'deeply unsatisfactory'

The Prime Minister has confirmed 28 Australian deaths, and warned Russia it must not hinder investigations.

PT2M30S http://www.canberratimes.com.au/action/externalEmbeddedPlayer?id=d-3c6kf 620 349
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With the PM finishing his press conference, we will leave you here in Canberra.

It has been a busy day for the Parliament - with the government not getting its own way on the mining tax or the Asset Recycling Fund, and a compromise on Qantas.

But all this has of course been overshadowed by the horrifying news of MH17.

Please continue to follow the Fairfax live coverage of the plane, its passengers and the global response here.

Many thanks from Alex Ellinghausen and I. We look forward to blogging you again soon.

 

 

 

 

Flag at Parliament House in Canberra on Friday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Flag at Parliament House in Canberra on Friday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

"[The international investigation] really is a test for Russia. How transparent and fair dinkum is it going to be?" the PM says.

 

Abbott is still not saying one way or the other if Australia will withdraw Vladimir Putin's invitation to attend the G20 in Brisbane in November.

Will you be making direct contact with Vladimir Putin?

"I will be making a range of phone calls over the next few days. I don't want to go into whom I might be speaking to."

 

Prime Minister Tony Abbott addresses the media on Friday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Prime Minister Tony Abbott addresses the media on Friday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Tony Abbott says that Russia's Ambassador Vladimir Morozov in his meeting with Julie Bishop, had initially blamed Ukraine for the deaths.

"I have to say, that is deeply, deeply, unsatisfactory ...

"This is not an accident, it's a crime."

Prime Minister Tony Abbott addresses the media on Friday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Prime Minister Tony Abbott addresses the media on Friday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

11 Australian DFAT employees are being deployed to Ukraine.

More than 900 calls have been received so far by Australia's consular emergency hotline.

Abbott says he has been speaking to his Dutch and New Zealand counterparts.

And will speak to Malaysia's Najib Razak.

"It is highly probable" that MH17 was shot down by a pro-Russia missile, says Tony Abbott

 298 people were on the plane.

"The advice that I have is that final number of Australians on board is 28."

 

Prime Minister Tony Abbott addresses the media on Friday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Prime Minister Tony Abbott addresses the media on Friday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Standing by for a press conference with Tony Abbott in the Prime Minister's courtyard at Parliament House.

Bishop is now addressing reporters outside the Commonwealth offices in Sydney.

She confirms 28 - not 27 - Australians are dead as a result of the MH17 attack.

"Our immediate priority is the families [of those on board]."

Are you satisfied with Vladimir Putin's explanation that the plane came down in Ukraine and is therefore Ukraine's problem?

"What we are calling for and what we intend to establish through the UN Security Council is an investigation."

Did the ambassador say that pro-Russian separatists were culpable?

"He denied that."

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop has summoned Russian Ambassador Vladimir Morozov following the events around MH17. 

The two are meeting in Sydney this afternoon.

 

Joe Hockey and Mathias Cormann have released a statement pointing out that the mining tax raised about $300 million over its first two years.

"With most of it progressively refunded to mining tax payers ...

"The government cannot afford to keep borrowing money to pay for this kind of unfunded spending."

Flags at half-mast and a national day of mourning.

Tony Abbott has just released this statement:

I have instructed that the Australian National Flag be flown at half-mast tomorrow on all Australian government establishments, here and overseas, as a mark of respect to the Australians who have lost their lives in the tragic grounding of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17.

The Governor-General and I will attend a church service at St Mary’s Cathedral in Sydney on Sunday as we stand together as a nation at this difficult time.

A National Commemorative Service will be held at a later time when the families of those who have lost their lives have had time to comprehend this horrific event.

At this time, there will be a National Day of Mourning and flags will be flown at half-mast once more.

"Government senators appeared shocked as they left the chamber on Friday afternoon as the PUP senators walked away from the repeal because the government refused to keep compensation for families ..."

Lisa Cox reports on the non-repeal of the mining tax.

Laters.

Assistant Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development, Jamie Briggs and Leader of the House Christopher Pyne depart on Friday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Assistant Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development, Jamie Briggs and Leader of the House Christopher Pyne depart on Friday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Leader of the house Christopher Pyne moves that the House adjourns.

In doing so, he offers his condolences to the families of those on MH17.

And then the bells ring.

The House - like the Senate - is on a break until August 26.

The House adjourns. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

The House adjourns. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

The Qantas bill goes through on the voices.

 

Greens MP Adam Bandt says that his party does not like the increase in foreign ownership, but likes other provisions that will keep Qantas jobs in Australia.

Assistant Minister for Infrastructure Jamie Briggs says the Coalition wants Qantas to remain a "profitable Australian company".

This is why it wanted to get rid of all ownership restrictions.

"However, it was clear the Senate would not accept the bill in its original form."

He notes that the repeal of the carbon tax [which happened this week, unlike the mining tax] will also help the airline.

 

"The Senate requests the concurrence of the House ..."

The House is now sitting (again) and considering the amendments to the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill.

Bill Shorten speaks to support them.

(They are Labor's amendments.)

He notes that with the world reeling from the MH17 tragedy, "today is not the day for rancour".

"Today is the day to recognise that despite our differences ... this Parliament does have the capacity to build consensus ..."

Shorten says there are few things "more Australian than the flying kangaroo".

"Our country could not afford ... our national carrier to go overseas."

The bill means that Qantas will remain majority Australian owned and that its HQ will also remain here.

 

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten speaks on the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten speaks on the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

The Senate is on holidays until August 26.

But the bells are ringing elsewhere because the House is just about to come back to consider the Qantas amendments.

(Just when you thought we could break out the Bundy and Cokes...)

Leader of the House Christopher Pyne rings the bells in the House of Representatives. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Leader of the House Christopher Pyne rings the bells in the House of Representatives. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Hanson-Young's disallowance motion is voted down 34 noes to 29 ayes.

And with that Mitch Fifield moves that the Senate "do now adjourn".

There is a hearty "HEAR, HEAR!"

 

 

During all this Liberal Senator Cory Bernardi had to withdraw comments he was making about Hanson-Young during her speech.

"She's a disgrace!" he told the chamber, arguing that children had died at sea as the result of her policies. 

(It's warm and fuzzy Friday.)

 

Senator Cory Bernardi during the debate on the migration amendment. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Senator Cory Bernardi during the debate on the migration amendment. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Hanson-Young argues that the regulation will unfairly clamp down on unaccompanied minors who have come to Australia by boat.

She says it will mean they are treated the same as adults - and not have a right to bring their families out.

Hanson-Young says this will not serve as a disincentive, as current boat arrivals are processed on Nauru and PNG with no resettlement in Australia.

She says the regulation will merely target unaccompanied minors who are already in the community.

Assistant Minister for Immigration Michaelia Cash says that Hanson-Young doesn't have the facts right.

 

Assistant Immigration Minister Senator Michaelia Cash during the debate on the migration regulations. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Assistant Immigration Minister Senator Michaelia Cash during the debate on the migration regulations. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

The Senate is now moving on to a disallowance motion by Sarah Hanson-Young around Migration Regulations and visa granting.

This has not been deemed "urgent" business by the government (like the mining tax or Qantas bills).

But Hanson-Young had given notice of moving it on the next day of sitting.

While this would have been August 26, with the Senate sitting an extra day, it has been brought on.

 

Greens Senator Sarah Hanson-Young during the debate on the Migration Amendment. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Greens Senator Sarah Hanson-Young during the debate on the Migration Amendment. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

So while the government has managed - after delays and frustrations - to get the carbon tax repeal through in the first sitting fortnight of the new Senate, the story is not the same on the mining tax.

The next sitting period starts on August 26.

 

This caps off a busy day so far for the Senate.

In summary:

  • The mining tax is not repealed. The Senate has voted to keep its amendments - that the House does not support.
  • There is no agreement on the Asset Recycling Fund. The upper house has also insisted on its amendments to the Fund - that the House also does not support.
  • It has voted to amend the Qantas Sale Bill. And has sent this back to the House.

 

 

The mining tax lives.

The Senate votes 37 to 29 to keep the mining tax amendments. 

Division on the MRRT repeal bill. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Division on the MRRT repeal bill. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

But it looks like Abetz's pleas have not been heeded.

Labor, the Greens, Bob Day, John Madigan, Ricky Muir and PUP are all voting to keep the amendments.

(Final vote still to come.)

As the bells ring in the Senate for a vote on whether to keep the mining tax amendments, Eric Abetz tells the chamber that the Australian people will be watching very closely.

A vote to keep the amendments is a vote to keep the tax, he argues.

 

Meanwhile ...

Family First's Bob Day speaks:

"That ain't no way to run a railroad."

He doesn't like the mining tax. But he doesn't think low income supports should go.

"We can have both."

Family First Senator Bob Day speaks during the debate on the MRRT repeal bill. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Family First Senator Bob Day speaks during the debate on the MRRT repeal bill. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

The PUP block's vote will be critical here.

Will they decide to back their amendments - to keep the Schoolkids Bonus, the income support bonus and the low income superannuation contribution - at the expense of repealing the mining tax today?

As Ian Macdonald rails against the "hypocrisy" of Labor and the Greens, Doug Cameron has wandered over to have a chat to Ricky Muir.

Senator Ian Macdonald speaks during the debate on the MRRT Repeal Bill. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Senator Ian Macdonald speaks during the debate on the MRRT Repeal Bill. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Again, Labor and the Greens insist on their amendments.

"If you choose to let the big miners off the hook ... [don't expect us to] take the money off the poor," Christine Milne says.

The upper house quickly moves on to the mining tax repeal.

Again, Abetz moves that the Senate does not insist on its amendments.

"It would be nice to live in a magic pudding world ... but when you're in government you got to try and make things balance up..."

He says the Senate needs to repeal the mining tax today (and not in August when the Parliament next sits).

The next payment is due on July 21.

Leader of the Government in the Senate, Senator Eric Abetz, speaks during the debate on the MRRT repeal bill. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Leader of the Government in the Senate, Senator Eric Abetz, speaks during the debate on the MRRT repeal bill. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

The Senate votes 34 to 29 to insist on its amendments to the Asset Recycling Fund. 

The Greens, Labor and PUP combine to keep the amendments.

 

 

No play from Labor and the Greens.

They insist on their amendments, which yesterday provided for a parliamentary veto and cost benefit analysis of projects that could get a 15 per cent bonus from the Commonwealth.

 

Moving along with other business, Mitch Fifield has just moved that the Senate does not consider the Land Transport Infrastructure Amendment Bill that is listed today. 

The Asset Recycling Fund has also come back from the House.

Eric Abetz moves that the Senate considers it straight away.

"I move that the committee [the Senate] does not insist on its amendments," he says.

"This is a vital part of the government's plan to get the country's economy back on track..."

 

It votes 44 ayes to 15 noes to pass the amended bill.

As per a previous vote on the Labor amendment: Muir, PUP, Madigan and the Greens vote no.

The Senate is now voting on whether the Qantas bill should be read for a third time (the final stage of the voting process).

The Senate - sitting in committee - has voted to agree to the Qantas bill, as amended by Labor (and the government).

40 ayes to 15 noes.

It has also agreed that the "report of the committee be adopted".

 

 

 

The Senate is sitting in committee format - where it is moving amendments to the Qantas bill.

Labor has moved its amendment that raises the cap for individual investors and foreign owned airlines to 49 per cent.

It was agreed to, 48 ayes to 15 noes.

Labor, the government, Bob Day and David Leyonhjelm voted yes.

Ricky Muir, PUP, John Madigan and the Greens voted no.

 

A day for nothing other than bipartisanship.

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten and Prime Minister Tony Abbott in discussion after delivering statements on Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten and Prime Minister Tony Abbott in discussion after delivering statements on Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Tony Abbott and Bill Shorten talk after giving their statements to the House earlier.

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten and Prime Minister Tony Abbott in discussion after delivering statements on Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten and Prime Minister Tony Abbott in discussion after delivering statements on Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

As the mining tax heads back to the Senate (to give it the option of agreement with the House), the House has been suspended again.

The House has not agreed with the Senate amendments on the mining tax.

This statement has just been entered in the live minutes:

House of Representatives Statement of Reasons for disagreement with certain proposed amendments:

Senate Amendment Number (1), (2), (3) and (4)

These amendments passed by the Senate removes from the Bill the Schedules 7, 8, and 9 which relate to the abolition of the Low Income Superannuation Contribution, the abolition of Income Support Bonus and the abolition of the Schoolkids Bonus.

The removal of these schedules would cost $9.6 billion over the forward estimates to 30 June 2018.  The House of Representatives will not accept amendments which do not remove all elements of the mining tax package.

Accordingly the House of Representatives does not accept these amendments.

Back in the House, the mining tax repeal bill has arrived back.

With amendments.

The government does not want to agree to these.

Labor's Jenny Macklin speaks briefly in support of the amendments passed in the Senate.

"This is much needed support," she says of the income support bonus.

 

 

 

In the Senate, the Qantas debate is nearing an end. 

Hi-vis wearer Ian Macdonald, has just spoken in favour of opening up the airline.

"I fear for its long term future."

The Coalition senator points to the example of Ansett, where no one now has a job. 

"How good is that for looking after your union members?"

That suspension has not lasted long.

The bells are now ringing for the House to sit again.

After the House stands in silence, leader of the house Christopher Pyne says that the House will be suspended today, except for "essential items of business as a mark of respect to those who've lost their lives".

The essential items include the mining tax and Qantas. 

As they are not yet ready for the House, the bells ring to suspend the sitting.

 

The House of Representatives pay their respects to passengers on Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

The House of Representatives pay their respects to passengers on Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Adam Bandt notes that Melbourne has been getting ready for the AIDS conference.

"As the member for Melbourne and on behalf of the Greens, I want to associate myself with the remarks of the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition."

Bronwyn Bishop is due to address the conference on Monday.

"I know there will be many empty spots and I think what we're doing is mourning with all the world," she told the House.

"I say this to the Prime Minister today," says Shorten

"Labor understands the complexity can and the difficulty of the decisions that you will face.

"We understand that as people are working through the pain and the grief there will be many understandable calls for all sorts of action.

"I say that Labor is prepared to support the government and cooperate with the Prime Minister and the government on what is the right next step to be taken in this most bewildering and shocking of events.

"Whether or not that involves anything to do with the G20, we say to the Government we will work with your measured approach ..."

Shorten notes that some of the world's leading AIDS experts were on MH17.

"The cost of this will be felt in many parts of the world."

He says that with more than 100 Dutch nationals on the flight, Australia and the Netherlands "are embraced in a shared grief".

 

Labor leader Bill Shorten rises to speak after Tony Abbott.

He begins by thanking the PM for the conversations they have had this morning and the bi-partisanship shown.

"This news that we woke up to this morning is worse than shocking. 

"It is debilitating, bewildering ... Travelling at 6 miles height, this is unimaginable.

"This is a violation of the rules of civilisation."

 

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten delivers a statement on Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Opposition Leader Bill Shorten delivers a statement on Malaysian Airlines flight MH17 Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

"Let me conclude with this: the bullying of small countries by big ones, the trampling of justice and decency in the pursuit of national aggrandisement and reckless indifference to human life should have no place in our world," says Tony Abbott.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott delivers a statement on Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Prime Minister Tony Abbott delivers a statement on Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

"As it stands, this looks less like an accident, than a crime."

The PM speaks after attending a National Security Committee meeting of Cabinet this morning.

He says the Australia will be working with the United Nations Security Council for a binding resolution calling for a "full and impartial investigation, with full access to the site, with access to the debris, with full access to the black box..."

Julie Bishop will "shortly summon" the Russian Ambassador to seek a "categoric assurance" that the Russian government will fully cooperate in this investigation.

"Madam Speaker, this is a grim day for our country. And it is a grim day for our world."

Prime Minister Tony Abbott is speaking in the House.

He says MH17 has been shot down over eastern Ukraine, "it seems by Russian-backed rebels". 

 

Prime Minister Tony Abbott delivers a statement on Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Prime Minister Tony Abbott delivers a statement on Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Michael Gordon has been at the High Court directions hearings into the fate of the 153 asylum seekers on board a customs vessel on the high seas.

The hearing resumed this morning.

Michael reports:

Lawyers for the asylums seekers sought answers from the Abbott government on what its purpose was in detaining them since their boat was intercepted on or about June 29 and where it intended to take them.

They are seeking a hearing before the full High Court on August 5 which would be a test of the government’s powers to intercept boats outside Australia’s migration zone; hold asylum seekers indefinitely on the high seas; and take them to a place of its choosing. 

When the House sits at 11am, Prime Minister Tony Abbott will provide an update on the MH17 tragedy.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott arrives to deliver a statement on Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Prime Minister Tony Abbott arrives to deliver a statement on Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Lazarus tells the Senate about Qantas' efforts in World War II, the Vietnam War and Cyclone Tracy and how awesome it is.

"The Abbott government should be disgusted with itself [for trying to sell off Qantas]."

(It's a Glenn-off!)

PUP's Glenn Lazarus is now speaking on Qantas, opposing the Coalition's initial plan to remove ownership restrictions. 

"Qantas is symbolic of Australia," he says, just like emus, meat pies and the Great Barrier Reef. 

"Qantas is not for sale."

PUP Senator Glenn Lazarus speaks during the debate on the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

PUP Senator Glenn Lazarus speaks during the debate on the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

The Qantas debate is taking a bit longer than thought (hoped?) this morning. 

It appears that even though the Senate is sitting on a Friday, senators are happy to have a chat.

Labor's Glenn Sterle is speaking about protecting Qantas and helping it to continue to employ Australians.

"[The Coalition] does not give a fat rat's backside about Australian jobs!"

Once the Senate has dealt with the Qantas Bill, it will have to go back to the House.

It was passed in early March, but in a different form - removing foreign ownership and other restrictions applying to Qantas

Speaking on the bill, Labor's Doug Cameron declared, "I want an Australian airline ... Labor wants an Australian airline."

The Greens Lee Rhiannon said, "the Greens are firmly committed to keeping Qantas Australian owned".

She warned that the government's compromise position is "one step closer to greater foreign ownership".

 

Senator Doug Cameron speaks during the debate on the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Senator Doug Cameron speaks during the debate on the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

The Senate meanwhile, continues to debate the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill.

As James Massola reported earlier this week, the government has been forced to back down on its plan to open up the airline to foreign investment.

It compromised with Labor's position at a cabinet meeting on Monday.

This would see the limit on an individual investor raised from 25 per cent to 49 per cent. And a foreign owned airline from 35 per cent to 49 per cent.

This is short of what both the Coalition and airline wanted.

 

Julie Bishop is also asked about reports that Russian separatists have taken the plane's black box.

"Regardless of the circumstances we urge the separatists to cooperate with an investigation into this crash."

Have you asked to meet with Russia's embassy in Australia?

"At this stage, we're holding a National Security Committee meeting shortly and we'll determine the next steps after."

She adds she expects to hold another press conference later today.

"I understand this [MH17] was a flight connecting to Australia," says Bishop.

"It was Amsterdam, Kuala Lumpur, Perth and that there are a number of Australians on that flight.

"I also understand that a number of people who were travelling to Melbourne for the 2014 AIDS conference commencing this weekend were also onboard."

As of 9am, DFAT's consular emergency centre had received about 170 calls.

 

Bishop says Australia is seeking access to the crash site and a full independent international inquiry into what happened.

Australia's National Security Committee will be meeting shortly.

"We don't know the cause but there is speculation that the plane was shot down.

"If that is the case it is an unspeakable crime ...

"We can't yet point the finger of blame until there's been a full investigation."

"Our thoughts and prayers are with the families and friends of those onboard," Bishop says.

The Foreign Minister says she has spoken to the Dutch foreign minister and that shortly, Tony Abbott will speak to the Prime Minister of the Netherlands.

Bishop is also trying to speak to the Malaysian Foreign Minister.

 

 

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop is speaking in Brisbane.

She confirms that 27 of the passengers on MH17 were Australian nationals.

(This is up from the 23 that the government was able to confirm earlier this morning.)

"The nationalities of all those on board is not yet known so the final number may be higher."

 

Fifield also tells that Senate that Finance Minister Mathias Cormann is not around today.

He is travelling on ministerial business that was planned before the Senate decided to sit today.

After the condolence messages this morning in the Senate, Manager of government business in the Senate, Mitch Fifield began the session with a note about the day.

It is not a "typical" sitting day, he said.

"In a sense [it is ] an extension of yesterday."

The Senate - having passed the mining tax repeal late last night - has moved on to a debate about the Qantas Sale Amendment Bill.

But Fifield predicts that the mining tax repeal will come back to the Senate today, after the House has a look at it. 

The mining tax repeal was only passed with significant amendments, courtesy of Labor, the Greens and PUP.

(The Senate voted to keep about $10 billion worth of measures associated with the mining tax, such as the Schoolkids Bonus, low income super contribution and the income support bonus.)

"I would anticipate that the other house would not agree to the amendments made here," Fifield said.

If the Senate does not agree with the House's expected changes, "then, the legislation would fail".

 

 

Senator Mitch Fifield on Friday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Senator Mitch Fifield on Friday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

National security correspondent David Wroe also reports that the first Australian suicide bomber in Iraq reportedly killed three people in Baghdad on Thursday.

 

There is certainly plenty happening in the world today.

We also wake to the news that Israel has announced the start of a Gaza ground campaign.

This comes after ten days of aerial and naval bombardments failed to stop Palestinian rocket attacks.

On the ABC's AM program this morning, Abbott was asked about his message to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, during a recent conversation.

"Well again, it's the message that Australia has consistently given," Abbott said. 

"We support Israel's right to exist; we support a two state solution in the area. We recognise Israel's right to self-defence and we deplore the firing of rockets, the constants firing of rockets from Gaza into Israel."

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop is due to hold a doorstop in Brisbane at about 9.30am.

 

Prime Minister Tony Abbott has done several interviews this morning.

The carbon tax repeal has well and truly been overshadowed by events overseas.

He has said that if MH17 was shot down, it would be an "unspeakable crime".

The PM also told Fairfax Radio that if the plane had been shot down by a missile supplied by Russia, then Russia "bears a heavy share of responsibility".

 

Fairfax is running a live blog on Malaysia Airlines flight MH17.

Please tune in to the coverage here.

 

"This is a terrible tragedy. And it reminds us of what really matters," Labor's Penny Wong has told the Senate.

Greens leader Christine Milne said "these tragedies have ramifications that go to the whole of society".

She has also expressed "our absolute condolence to everyone affected".

 

Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, Senator Penny Wong, offers condolences on behalf of the Opposition for Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, Senator Penny Wong, offers condolences on behalf of the Opposition for Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

The Senate began sitting with messages of condolence about the Malaysia Airlines plane in eastern Ukraine.

As Europe correspondent Nick Miller reports, 295 passengers and crew are dead.

The Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has so far confirmed 23 Australians have died in the incident.

Government Senate leader Eric Abetz has reminded people of a 24-hour DFAT hotline on +61 2 6261 3305 if calling from overseas. 

The number is 1300 555 135 from within Australia.

 

Leader of the Government in the Senate, Senator Eric Abetz, offers condolences on behalf of the Government for Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Leader of the Government in the Senate, Senator Eric Abetz, offers condolences on behalf of the Government for Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Good morning.

It is the day after the carbon tax repeal.

And doesn't that already seem like a very long time ago?

The Senate began sitting at 9am and is just about to kick off legislative matters. 

The House is due to sit from 11am.

Parliament House on Friday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Parliament House on Friday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

The Senate and the House sit for a bonus day of Parliament, as the world wakes up to the news that a plane is believed to have been shot down in Ukraine.

And Israel announces the start of a Gaza ground campaign.

Moonset over Parliament House on Friday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Moonset over Parliament House on Friday. Photo: Alex Ellinghausen

Sort comments by:
  • Plenty of triggers for a DD so still waiting for the promised DD.........

    Commenter
    Unbelievable
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 5:18PM
  • Tony Abbott has officially toed the NATO line and predictably blamed Russia for the downed aircraft. On what evidence has he made this decision.

    Commenter
    zac48
    Location
    Melb.
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 5:02PM
  • Re: "It is highly probable" that MH17 was shot down by a Russian-backed missile, says Tony Abbott."

    And that is the result of providing sophisticated weaponry to a bunch of skinheads. The problem is with this case is do the skinheads have the expertise to target a plane flying at 10 miles above the earth?

    Commenter
    Pen of hrba
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 5:01PM
    • You don't just go the corner shop to buy such hardware, do you?
      Estimated somewhere it would take a team of thirty and with the relevant expertise to conduct such a 'successful' (can't think of the appropriate adjective)mission.
      Scary times. The killing of innocent civilians of universal nationalities is just so wrong on so many counts.I've flown MH couple times and feel for them, they are another victim in this horrid mess.

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 5:13PM
    • Gal

      One thing is for sure the USA has had eyes in the sky perpetually over this region and already understands who what is the cause of this atrocity. It is not the first time that Russians have shot down a airliner full of passengers, they did the same to a Korean plane about 30 years ago.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 5:18PM
  • Why the Mining Tax should stay.

    Over the last three years one mining multinationals paid almost no tax on its $15 billion income. Its current Australian chairman's personal wealth recently rose by almost 20% to $6.6 billion. In terms of revenue last year it amounted to $232.694 billion reasons why fossil fuels remain the main source of energy in Australia.

    The amount of tax paid by this giant to the ATO amounts to $507 million in income tax, on cash receipts of $30 billion. This is what our senators are protecting: tax levied on profits not on sales, like others it siphons profits out of this country, where the corporate tax rate is 30%, into more tax-amenable jurisdictions despite it drowning in cash from the greatest coal boom in history. So it borrows billions from its parent company and other overseas associates and pays interest which procures a tax deduction from the ATO.

    Commenter
    Pen of hrba
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 4:49PM
    • I vote for an Earth Magnetic Field Tax to punish it for declining by 15% over the last. 200 years ( strangely coinciding with a lot of stupid heating going on ). Stupid magnetic field thingy.
      Of note Mars used to have a strong magnetic field..but now it doesn't....and mars is kinda dead.

      Commenter
      Sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 5:03PM
  • Listening to the disallowance motion I think the antipathy between SHY and Ms. Cash goes deeper than the political divide.

    Commenter
    Jason of Gold Coast
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 4:48PM
    • I can't blame Ms.Cash. She's only human.

      Commenter
      zac48
      Location
      Melb.
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 5:06PM
  • This is the only week that the Members of both Houses truly earned their keep. Normally they only work 4 days week with long holiday in between.

    Commenter
    Mais51
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 4:48PM
  • Well Clive's foray into Senate territory has been entertaining. We can't say there's been too many dull moments.
    And this is just for the Entree, wait till we get to Mains and Desserts.
    The Reps by comparison is for ever predictable with Govt still in opposition mode.
    Kudos to the Pulse team, and that includes us.

    Commenter
    A country gal
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 4:38PM
    • Totally agree, especially re the Pulse team. Judith Ireland, Alex Ellinghausen and Andrew Meares have been great contributors to OUR daily column! We hope they continue. And unless Clive Palmer seriously takes up palaeontology and opts for a career change I expect that we will be seeing, seeing, and hearing, hearing, more from him from now on.

      Commenter
      Pluto
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:52PM
    • Better not dismiss the Mods Pluto, those silent achievers who mainly post our comments. Censor us when we are 'naughty'. And email us if we need a 'clip around the ears', thankfully not as Dunolly would propose.

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 5:02PM
  • The winter break…….
    “Now is the winter of our discontent
    Made glorious summer by this son of York;
    And all the clouds that lour'd upon our house
    In the deep bosom of the ocean buried…….
    Plots have I laid, inductions dangerous,
    By drunken prophecies, libels and dreams, .….
    As I am subtle, false and treacherous.”
    - Shakespeare - Richard 111

    Commenter
    Koel
    Location
    Qld
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 4:38PM
  • Well lets count Abbott's successes:
    1. Boats stopped
    2. Carbon Tax gone
    3. Mining Tax not yet repealed, but its only a matter of time before Clive Palmer decides to put his personal interests ahead of the national interest and order his PUPs to vote with the LNP Senators.
    4. Repair the Budget. This promise is going to be harder to keep because of its complexity, but the Budget must eventually be fixed or those on Social Welfare will be facing a dire famine when the government runs out of funds and like the Greek government simply is unable to pay its obligations to its citizens. Perhaps that is what Bill Shorten would like to see happen? On whose side is he? Maybe his own side.

    Commenter
    Billnix
    Location
    Western Sydney
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 4:17PM
    • 4. Indonesia deeply offended.
      5. East Timor's rights trodden on
      6. China deeply offended
      7. Korea deeply offended
      8. Old soldiers deeply offended
      There's lots, lots more nut I couldn't call them achievements no matter how charitable I tried to be.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:29PM
    • If you are celebrating that I feel sorry for you. Enjoy it while you can.

      Commenter
      davemac
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:29PM
    • Now lets look at his lies and broken promises to see what the future really hol.
      - No cuts to education
      - Unity ticket on Gonski
      - no public servants will be forced into redundancy
      - slashes funding to Landcare
      - no cuts to health funding
      - Breaks a promise to have one million more solar roofs across Australia
      - Commits half the funding to emissions reduction in first budget
      - Abolishes Medicare locals
      - Scraps The Australian Renewable Energy Agency
      - Breaks promise on foriegn aid cuts
      - No new taxes
      - No tax increases
      - No cuts to ABC or SBS
      - Breaks NBN promise to Tasmania
      - Breaks promise to provide customs vessel to monitor whaling
      - NDIS funding cuts
      - Broken promise to Garma people.

      Sure makes his couple of slogan oriented successes pale into insignificance!

      Commenter
      Pieron
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:31PM
    • Nine months and that's all he's got to show? I guess if get elected on lies and promises which you intend breaking there's little else to do other than shout slogans and pay spin doctors to peddle propaganda.

      Commenter
      Wheatblix
      Location
      Parramatta (look it up, it's no where near Canberra)
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:36PM
    • @mitch of ACT. These days it doesn't take much to offend the Chinese.

      Commenter
      Plutom
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:37PM
    • I guess in the sense that Abbott has delivered on some election promises you could call that a success. Wont help his standing in the polls. The boat stoppers and climate deniers are squarely in the very small "regardless of how incompetent his team are, I would vote for them anyway" camp.

      Problem is, repealing stuff is not the same as doing stuff.

      & Seriously Billnix, if the entire weight of the Murdoch press and the Liberal Government have failed miserably to manufacture a budget crisis so far, what are you hoping to acheive and just who are you trying to convince by constantly parroting their tired old lines, ad nauseum?

      I mean seriously, Greece? That one got old back in 2011.

      Commenter
      Sambo
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:41PM
    • But in this case the Chinese, the Koreans and our old soldiers were all offended by the same remark about the war-making skills of the Japanese submariners. It's like he lines people up to slap them in the face all at the same time.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:45PM
    • Is that all, if I performed so poorly in 10 months I would surely get sacked.

      Commenter
      Get Real
      Location
      The land of celebrating underachievers
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 5:00PM
  • Whenever I see the names Joe Hockey and Mathias Cormann in the same sentence I do not know which part of that sentence I should believe.

    Commenter
    Pluto
    Location
    Melbourne
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 4:11PM
    • 'and' would be the safest bet

      Commenter
      Gigondas
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:15PM
    • The full stop. The rest is polly-waffle and bad for you.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:17PM
    • Read the smoke signals.

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:26PM
    • ACG, Matthias and Joe were just testing out the new fraudband technology.

      Commenter
      meatatarian
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:46PM
    • Meat, got me giggling there.

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 5:17PM
  • "The government cannot afford to keep borrowing money to pay for this kind of unfunded spending."

    Commenter
    But unlimited funds for spin doctors and gagging the media
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 4:11PM
    • Don't forget $1 million for a ballet school and $5 billion for PPL.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:19PM
    • Or the chocolates, "Favourites" from memory.

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:28PM
    • while making sure they protect the top end of town, miners and banks - must have been hard for them to freeze their own salary for 1 year and put a temporary err modest levy errr on the top tax bracket. Bet Smokin wasn't dancing in his office to those ones.

      Commenter
      davemac
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:31PM
    • @mitch of ACT. It was when that $1 million for a ballet school was announced, that I realised that the whole country was being led a merry dance!

      Commenter
      Pluto
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:34PM
    • and yet we'll keep the CT compensation after we say bye bye to the revenue. Not the same thing at all.

      Commenter
      davemac
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:38PM
    • Pluto, as Pen would say "Merde".

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:41PM
    • @acg. Some japes always sound better in a foreign language!

      Commenter
      Pluto
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 5:01PM
  • Dear Mr Abbott, My wife & I are are self funded retirees and we have 2,000 AGL Shares after you repealed the Carbon Tax we lost $1,740 dollars. Do you think I should keep them or sell them now? Also if you repeal the Mining Tax do you think it will have the same effect on our Mining Shares?
    I await your advice. KMA

    Commenter
    KMA
    Location
    Berwick
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 4:01PM
    • Best advice is to keep them, they will go up eventually. Abbott cannot outlast climate change.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:19PM
    • Keep checking whether you qualify for the age pension. The way this gov't is intent on destroying the economy your assets and income could slip below the eligibilty thresholds.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:22PM
    • Umm...dunno KMA...after the election in September last year where they said they'd repeal it didn't you think to maybe sell them at that stage?? Seriously...did you really just post that ?

      Commenter
      Sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:25PM
    • @Sick then it would be the people who bought the shares from KMA asking the same question.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:48PM
    • So Mitch..no one makes anyone buy shares in anything...people should do it with due diligence. Are you saying we should buy shares in AGL? They burn fossil fuels you know...

      Commenter
      Sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:58PM
    • @Sick AGL also have green energy interests. One day they will see the light and switch over to renewables entirely.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 5:10PM
    • They might need a name change then :-)

      Commenter
      sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 5:17PM
  • Wrong again Andie,

    Spanish power generation by coal is only 14.6% green energy accounts for 54%.

    Commenter
    Pen of hrba
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 3:57PM
  • So flags and church- that'll help.
    Due credit for a day of mourning though.

    Commenter
    A country gal
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 3:54PM
  • Government ministers appeared shocked did they? All part of the act methinks. They know that eventually Clive and his PUPs might come round to the Liberal way of looking at the world. Clive likes to feel that he belongs, and he likes to be sweet-talked.

    Commenter
    Pluto
    Location
    Melbourne
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 3:53PM
  • The dashing demonstrators of dirty dealing have destroyed their demeanour in "the other place"

    Commenter
    peter
    Location
    daintree
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 3:52PM
  • Hold firm Tony, Clive will still be paying the mining tax, interesting to see how long he can hang out without doing something.

    Commenter
    Bonus for Clive/ bonus for schoolkids
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 3:35PM
    • Abbott should call Clive's bluff. Keep the mining tax AND get rid of the family benefits.

      Hard to say he's favouring the mining industry over the poor then.

      Commenter
      The Banker
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:05PM
  • Rupert says: "Sorry, I have been busy lately with many preoccupations!" Ah, I knew that eventually the great man was going to carry his delusions of grandeur to the limit. I can see the stained-glass artists now, working overtime to capture the essence of his mission on earth for posterity.

    Commenter
    Pluto
    Location
    Melbourne
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 3:35PM
  • @2.28: "Release the Hounds"

    Commenter
    tasch2
    Location
    Mornington Peninsula
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 3:20PM
  • Oh well, the mining tax - the tax that didn't - survives.

    Maybe that's a good thing - it serves as a reminder of the great negotiation skills of Swan and Gillard. And their desire to spend billions based on revenues that never materialised.

    Commenter
    Hacka
    Location
    Canberra
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 3:17PM
    • Another broken promise by Abbott - to follow the many already made and the lies told.

      Just proves he has no negotiation skills except apart from to cave in to PM Palmer.

      Climate change is not crap but this government certainly is!

      Commenter
      Unbelievable
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:30PM
    • you still do but

      Commenter
      roger
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:30PM
    • This will be another noose around an inept governments neck, no matter what the spin doctors say at the end of the day. Another failed attempt!!!

      Commenter
      Get Real
      Location
      Where failure is spun into success
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:34PM
    • Mmmm - somehow i don't think that this week will be remembered for the mining tax.

      It's been a good week for delivery of promises wouldn't you all agree ?

      Commenter
      Hacka
      Location
      Canberra
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:41PM
    • Keep trying to sell it Hacka. Earn those spin dollars!

      Commenter
      AussieA
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:42PM
    • This week won't be remembered for anything useful. A tragic end to a tragic week.

      The government has now achieve pretty much zip in 10 months.

      Now why are those polls heading south again?

      Commenter
      Unbelievable
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:11PM
    • The mining tax didn't get the revenue that it should have due to tony truthless blocking it in its original form. That forced the government to go for a lesser version of the tax which drove up the deficit.

      So in other words truthless played a very effective bit of nasty politics by creating the problem (i.e. revenue shortfall which increased the deficit) and then claiming a win by fixing the very problem he created.

      In any case the government has ended the week with a loss which in reality wasn't much of a surprise.

      Commenter
      Lance
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:23PM
    • Yes for this inept government it could be considered a good week, they have wasted millions trying to get a slogan through the senate. Revel in your victory as the next slogan to get passed through will be a time coming, how is the budget going!m I do enjoy a belly laugh on a Friday.

      Commenter
      Get Real
      Location
      Minor defeats are considered victories for the inept
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:25PM
  • Dr No

    Err, aren’t we forgetting a little physics here? Like warming water expands and it can only expand one way. Did we watch Catalyst last night, no of course not? So all the ice melt and glacial melt and polar ice melt at both poles is by seal flatulence is it? All that exhaust air is obviously why “The oceans have absorbed much of the increased heat caused by Co2 increase, with the top 700 meters (about 2,300 feet) of ocean showing warming of 0.302 degrees Fahrenheit since 1969” (NASA).

    Clearly seal farts have replaced what was irrefutable evidence of sea rise by proven basic physics calculation that dictates 100 litres of water heated from 20oC to 80oC the volumetric expansion of the water can be calculated: dV (change in volume) = (100 liters) (0.000214 1/ oC) (80 oC - 20 oC) = 1.28 litres. Hence scientists have concluded that sea rise over the next 87 years will be up to three metres based on recent findings of warming sea expansion and ice melt.

    But then it’s all a figment of imaginations by thousands of scientists, right? It’s farting seals right?

    Commenter
    Pen of hrba
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 3:08PM
    • Did dinosaurs fart?.

      Commenter
      Smelly business
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:39PM
    • It's on the ABC. None of the right will watch the ABC - it's too balanced, not right enough.

      Commenter
      Tone
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:55PM
    • Does that big glowing hot sun thingy have any impact at all ?

      Commenter
      Sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:59PM
    • Sick of the Left

      Actually none at all in terms of global warming.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:07PM
    • Pen, climate change zealots have created this mess with public perceptions and to top it off they don't practice what they preach. You know it.
      Flannery - it won't rain much again and Brisbane will have no drinking after. Then it floods and all the dams and rivers are full. To top it off he owns a waterfront property on a tidal river area.
      Rudd - CC s the greatest dilemma we face. So he bought. Beachfront on the Sunshine Coast.
      Gillard - lied about the carbon tax to save her parliamentary power. Retires to a near beach front in Adelaide.
      Milne (and Brown when in Senate) based their whole political capital on CC. Whilst they have their electoral office on a waterfront pier in Hobart.
      Pen, do you now know why so many are sceptical?
      Pen, yes there is CC as it has been for millions and millions of years.

      Commenter
      enough is enough
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:08PM
    • @Sick, yes it does. It provides the heat and all of the carbon dioxide we emit from our burning of fossil fuels stores it all up. Pretty simple physics really, but way too complicated for the blue-tie brigade too grasp.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:16PM
    • Really Pen...I was under the impression that scientists were still trying to understand the effect that it has...but if Pen says 'no' then no further discussion allowed I guess. Sounds like the Greens negotiating skills right there.

      Commenter
      Sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:27PM
    • Mitch!!! How dare you. You just completely contradicted Pen. So which is it - yes or no?

      Commenter
      Sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:29PM
    • Research examining the causes of climate change in the northern hemisphere over the past 1000 years has shown that until the year 1800, the key driver of periodic changes in climate was volcanic eruptions. These tend to prevent sunlight reaching Earth, causing cool, drier weather. Since 1900, greenhouse gases have been the primary cause of climate change.

      The findings show that periods of low sun activity should not be expected to have a large impact on temperatures on Earth, and are expected to improve scientists' understanding and help climate forecasting.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:40PM
    • I do enjoy pen, SoL and EiE going at it, must admit my finger gets sore from all the scrolling though.

      Commenter
      davemac
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:41PM
    • @Sick welcome to the blue-tie brigade.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:42PM
    • ...and the earth's magnetic field has declined by approx 15% over the last 200 years...you know...that silly radiation protective shield thingy around the planet.

      Commenter
      Sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:47PM
    • My bad Mitch. I thought it was the oceans storing most of the heat.

      Commenter
      Sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:51PM
  • 2.47pm: Thats it! Going fishing! (got a few smelly pieces of dead legislative proposals to use for bait)

    Commenter
    David D
    Location
    Ettalong Beach
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 3:02PM
    • Tide is out in Canberra, but you're always guaranteed to catch a big whopper there.

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:00PM
    • @A country gal. Too true. And congrats to reaching, and well over, the 1000 yesterday. We could not have done it without you!

      Commenter
      Pluto
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:08PM
    • Cheers Pluto yep 1036! Did check out Ltd. News and about 800 then, surprisingly increasingly comments there are evolving into Anti Govt AND being posted.
      All good fun amid the doom and gloom.

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:24PM
  • Senator H-Y's credibility on anything to do with the boats is nil. She flatly refuses any responsibility for the part she played in the debacle of the last 6 years.

    Commenter
    Puzzled
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 2:29PM
    • Her credibility may (to you) look poor....until you put her beside Senator Cash.

      Commenter
      David D
      Location
      Ettalong Beach
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:40PM
    • The only debacle in the last 6 years has been both major parties playing fast and loose with the lives of desperate people to appeal to folk such as yourself who feign to have concern over the "dangers" of being on the high seas when in fact you couldn't care less if they were returned to mortal peril - as long as they don't come here, eh Puzzled? The credibility gap is all yours.

      Commenter
      BC
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:41PM
    • Much as I dislike her position, she has much more credibility than the Liberals. She has maintained the same position for 7 years or longer. The Liberals, meanwhile, voted whichever way would do the most damage to Labor. It did not give a damn about the people on the boats, only the people with votes.

      Commenter
      Whyalla Wipeout
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:42PM
    • Wait till the gag is lifted (yet another broken promise/lie) and the current mob are under scrutiny. Won't be long now before they're thrown out and we'll learn the truth.

      Commenter
      We're all puzzled thanks to the gag
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:44PM
    • Stick with the boats that's all that is left after another disastrous day in the Senate. How bad is when they cannot even convince a miner to axe the mining tax, honestly is this a joke!

      Commenter
      Get Real
      Location
      All commonsense has left the building
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:51PM
    • You mean the way she single-handedly smuggled all those people across the Timor Strait? I admit the policy of onshore processing has flaws (ie the asylum seekers have ti get here to be processed onshore) but it beats the refoulement policy of the LNP.. And doin't start with the "successfully stopped the boats" crap again. We only have Admiral Morrison's word for that.

      Commenter
      stevek
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:59PM
    • The truth about this whole sorry episode will only come out when sailors start suing the Navy for PTSD for what they have been required to do. Or Labor could hold an RC into the episode in 2 years time.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:12PM
    • Umm......Whyalla.... Blink blink blink Sea Patrol blink blink blink ... credibility... really???? Really???!!!

      Commenter
      Sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:18PM
    • WW the liberals have held the same policy for 13+ years or longer - it was called the Pacific solution and was very successful.

      So successful the ALP finally reverted to in in desperation last year after 50,000 arrivees and 12,00 drownings.

      Sorry but it is the ALP that has has a different policy every year since 2006 so plesese desist in trying to rewrite history ince

      Commenter
      Andie
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:24PM
  • Eric, I’m not sure about your assertion that all of the Australian people were watching that vote very closely, but it’s pretty clear (from opinion polling) that a majority will be quite pleased with the result. (From SMH earlier this year: “A nationwide opinion poll by UMR Research shows that 54 per cent of people think multinational mining companies pay too little tax.”)

    Commenter
    Gigondas
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 2:24PM
  • ""Let me conclude with this: the bullying of small countries by big ones, the trampling of justice and decency in the pursuit of national aggrandisement and reckless indifference to human life should have no place in our world," says Tony Abbott.

    I just read this quote, and thought how it was about time that Abbott came clean and admitted that this is how the rest of the world seems to see his "Stop the Boat", Sovereign Borders, offshore processing and our treatment of asylum seekers policies.

    Then I saw it was about the plane.

    Commenter
    Sambo
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 2:22PM
  • 1:39pm: Sums up this inept government's performance so far and goes to show what you get when you bank on slogans.

    Commenter
    Get Real
    Location
    When the slogansare gone all you are left with is that empty feeling.
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 2:14PM
    • Who knew it could be so hard?

      Commenter
      Can I go an play with my bike now?
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:45PM
    • Can't be that hard the last government managed to do with ease, maybe Tony should pay a visit

      Commenter
      Get Real
      Location
      Negotiations are out the window
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:16PM
  • In the words of the great Paul Keating, when referring to the Senate..."unrepresentative swill"

    Things don't change that much do they?

    Commenter
    Paul
    Location
    brisbane
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 2:13PM
    • Look what happened the last time a gov't controlled both Houses. John Howard gave us Work Choices and in the process signed his own eviction notice. NEVER give one party control of both Houses. It's like living in a dictatorship where the whim of the leader is exercised uncontrolled.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:51PM
    • As opposed to NOT getting government policies executed, because of politics of minority parties.....a joke.

      There is an election every three years, do you know that?

      Commenter
      Paul
      Location
      brisbane
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:14PM
  • Rupert "Sorry, I have been busy lately with many preoccupations!"

    It goes to show that wealth doesn't give you happiness or peace of mind. However peace of mind and happiness will come if you can afford to ignore your wealth. I am sure Warren Buffett is much more relax and happy even though he is giving 99% of his wealth away.

    Commenter
    Mais51
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 2:08PM
    • and getting richer in the process. Strange about that. The more money you give away, the richer you get.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:38PM
    • Yes Mitch, richness is not measured by your wealth alone.

      Commenter
      Mais51
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:24PM
  • How ironic that a day after the carbon tax is removed its one of the coldest days of the year.

    Commenter
    Piped Piper
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 2:01PM
    • Yes, because of climate change! And it is winter

      Commenter
      Big C
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:07PM
    • How ironic that winter comes at the same time each year

      Commenter
      David D
      Location
      Ettalong Beach
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:09PM
    • PP, please learn the difference between 'climate' and 'weather' before commenting further on the topic.

      Commenter
      Mr Burns
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:09PM
    • Your comment is *seasoned* with irony....

      Commenter
      David D
      Location
      Ettalong Beach
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:12PM
    • If you were expecting an immediate effect, where's my $550.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:13PM
    • Why would that be ironic? It's the middle of July. When do you think the coldest day of the year should be? Don't seem to be breaking any cold records here.

      Commenter
      GOV
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:13PM
    • How ironic that you think that means anything, about anything.

      Commenter
      SAmbo
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:14PM
    • You must be lamenting another failed day by this inept government.

      Commenter
      Get Real
      Location
      Clutching at straws in a concrete factory
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:15PM
    • Of course. A cold day means global warming is a hoax. just a massive conspiracy. Ha ha.

      Commenter
      mayweather
      Location
      sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:15PM
    • Not really when you consider the predictions also include more extreme weather - hot and cold, but mainly hot.

      But what I suspect you are saying as a joke is exactly how a lot of people simplify the argument.

      Commenter
      davemac
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:16PM
    • Yes PP but its forecast to hit 45c in parts of Iraq today.
      Which is about as relevant and "ironic" as your post.

      Commenter
      mirrorsofsmoke
      Location
      sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:22PM
    • There hasn't been any warming at all for the last 18 years. That's a fact. Another fact is that there is no rise in sea-levels over and above the natural small rise because of the land mass over northern Europe and Canada rising slowly since the last ice age (because of having been weighted down by ice and now slowly making its way up again and thus causing a small rise in sea-levels for the rest of the planet). Contrary to popular opinion there is no increase in hurricanes either.

      Commenter
      Dr No
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:23PM
    • You really do have problem confusing weather with climate change, don't you?

      Tell me, did you complete grade 10 at school?

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:32PM
    • Yes Barnaby.

      Commenter
      BC
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:35PM
    • How ironic it is that the question of what the world's climate will be like for the rest of the 21st century can be resolved by reference to the temperature in a single place in Australia in the winter of 2014.

      Scientific method much.

      Commenter
      Whyalla Wipeout
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:35PM
    • PP, when you have nothing to say but you have to anyway so you resort to nonsense?...sign of a feeble intellect...

      Commenter
      du
      Location
      syd
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:38PM
    • What ARE you talking about, Dr No? Are you claiming that the continents are somehow floating in the oceans? They're RISING because the ice isn't weighing them down? Huh?

      Commenter
      BC
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:39PM
    • Dr No, your fact, of no temperature increases for 18 years is a myth according to Sceptical Science (which uses the period of 16 years) see http://www.skepticalscience.com/no-warming-in-16-years.htm.
      So raise you and call you.

      Commenter
      Lyn
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:44PM
    • @ Dr. No. Been to florida/Caribbean lately?

      Commenter
      007
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:47PM
    • You lefties are too easy to ruffle. It was a joke to give you guys something to smile about after yesterday.

      Commenter
      Piped Piper
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:00PM
    • @Dr No. While I was reading your post I felt myself getting 2 feet taller. Then I realised that you were pulling both of my legs.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:03PM
    • Haha PP. Look at the usual suspects who took the bait LOL

      Commenter
      Next Mini Ice Age
      Location
      Brisbane
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:12PM
    • Dr No,
      There are some parts of the continental land masses rising and some sinking.
      that is all taken into account.
      Sea levels have risen 250mm in Sydney Harbour over the last 200 years and the Australian continent is not sinking.

      the 16 year so-called plateau of temperatures is false and was made up by a reporter in The Australian who refuses to retract his story when the IPCC told him his reporting was wrong. That reporter has refused to release the transcript of his interview.

      Commenter
      Econorat
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:17PM
    • Talking about winter, is that a dress or a raincoat that Michaelia Cash is wearing? Is she hedging her bets?

      Commenter
      Pluto
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:23PM
    • WW about as scientific as most of the "science" in the IPCC reports.
      Do you agree that the "science" got it wrong and the back pedalling in the most recent IPCC report which admitted the exageration of its earlier "science"??

      Commenter
      Andie
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:29PM
    • Andie,
      Funny, what IPCC sees as adjustments & refinement of predictions (ie. narrowing of predictive range) as more and more data comes in; you call 'back pedalling'.

      Commenter
      Econorat
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:44PM
    • Oh Andie, I really wish you would give us references instead of bleating on like the rusted on that you are.

      Go on, Google is waiting for you.

      Commenter
      AussieA
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:50PM
  • FactChecker states:

    “The Minerals Resource Rent Tax (MRRT) came into force on July 1, 2012 and places a 22.5 per cent "super profits" tax on coal and iron ore producers. The most recent revenue forecasts by the federal Treasury are in the Mid Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook 2013-14, published in December.

    In this financial year the tax is projected to raise no money. Next year it is projected to bring in $450 million. In 2015-16 this rises to $1.2 billion, and in 2016-17 to $1.8 billion. The cumulative total over the four years of the forward estimates - the standard period used in federal budgets - is $3.4 billion.”

    Now consider the amounts the miner's get in subsidies, tax breaks and tax evasion practises, yes it is in the tens of billions.

    Commenter
    Pen of hrba
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 1:58PM
    • The tax was always deigned to operate thus. Accelerated deductions in the first instance, then a steadily increasing revenue stream thereafter. Those clamouring that *It Failed!* are suffering from a case of miner (sic) blindness.

      Commenter
      David D
      Location
      Ettalong Beach
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:22PM
    • ...and you want to keep it...??

      Commenter
      Sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:26PM
    • And the foolish government is saying they haven't got money to spend on infrastructure and services for people except for fuel subsidies and paid parental leave to wealthy.

      Commenter
      Sensible
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:34PM
    • Sick of the Left

      Indeed I do, I would use it to fund guess what?

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:49PM
    • Sensible, need to add to that list - $24b for jets and a 1.5% tax cut for companies

      Commenter
      Lyn
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:52PM
    • Yep the Miners are on the biggest government scams of all time.Its time we the people who actually own the stuff they did up started thinking what we are going to do with all the massive holes these mostly foreign owned companies leave when the minerals run out!

      We should have a national sovereign fund like Norway to pay for needed infrastructure instead of letting billions in massive profits going into the pockets of foreigners.!

      Commenter
      Go for it
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:41PM
  • Why can't Labor and the bloody Greens lets these key bills through that will help the Liberal Party control the budget. Labor put us in this mess and that should let the Liberal Party fix it cause it is a disgrace. Mr Shorten stand up for yourself and apologies to the Australian people for the unfair stuff that Labor did when they were in Government for 6 YEARS

    Commenter
    Anthony Swales
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 1:58PM
    • Just possibly because they think the Grabbalition are a box of Quackers.

      Commenter
      David D
      Location
      Ettalong Beach
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:01PM
    • Basically you need to read up the tax evasion practises; the subsidies taken; and other nefarious practises indulged by foreign owned mining companies. Then you will have an answer.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:04PM
    • Because the reality is that the Liberal Party are the biggest taxers of the poor and middle class in history, and they don't want to allow them to take an even bigger chunk for their rich mates.

      Commenter
      Tom
      Location
      Canberra
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:05PM
    • @Anthony, you do realise that if the Budget went through untouched the economy would be in an even bigger mess. Cutting expenditure on the lower income scales is guaranteed to reduce GDP and taxes. Labor & the Greens are saving the LNP from themselves. Pity. If the Budget went through untouched the LNP would be wiped out at the next election.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:10PM
    • Check the tax evasion scams and tax payer subsidies, and profits sent over seas tax free by these foreign mining companies.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:16PM
    • Maybe because Libs have no mandate to remove the mining tax, and this was a major reform brought in (and watered down too much in my view) by the last govt.

      How did TA go with supporting the ETS that Rudd took to the 2007 election? Any different?

      Commenter
      davemac
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:18PM
    • Abbott is the one who should apologize to the people for lying to them pre election, massive lies, no cuts to pensions, benefits, health, education, a new sick tax, petrol tax, massive fees for students, dumping sludge on the barrier reef, and on and on it goes. Bill has zilch to apologize for.!

      Commenter
      Piesnchess
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:18PM
    • Hey Anthony - did you make sure you got all your benefits from Labor's 6 years before you started your whining?
      BTW how much does Palmer owe government in mining tax?

      Commenter
      Bored46
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:27PM
    • How odd. You seem to have completely forgotten the wrecking ball antics of Dr. No, now our detested PM.

      Commenter
      Goes 'round, comes 'round - serves the liar right.
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:33PM
    • You forgot to mention the supposed mandate, you do understand our government and the way it works right? For if the LNP had policies and negotiation skills all would be good!

      Commenter
      Confused
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:34PM
  • 1.36pm: time for Mumbles to get out the old 3 string guitar again....* I got the gun..but I caint pull de trigger...I got dem ole dubble dissolution blues*

    Commenter
    David D
    Location
    Ettalong Beach
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 1:54PM
  • Any clues on Rups mysterious and cryptic tweet? Surely it's not a reference to the MH terrorist act.
    Rups apologising at all would have to be a first, or is he just feeling humble.

    Commenter
    A country gal
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 1:53PM
    • Perhaps busy rubbing hands together at the increase in oil and gas shale projects. Apart from printing political dogma of a certain variety that suits miners.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:28PM
  • What a bully Eric Abetz is with a comment like that. It was basically a threat.

    Commenter
    Daniel
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 1:50PM
    • It's Eric that needs to be reminded that Australians are indeed watching- him.

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:56PM
  • Good move by the Senate to block mining Tax repeal. I wonder how Tony will respond or not....

    Commenter
    Both eyes open
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 1:48PM
  • It’s incredible- Eric’s charm offensive has failed. The mining tax lives… for now. Those cross-benchers must have incredible willpower.

    What’s the betting that PUP will soon quietly backflip, now that they’ve got a bit of publicity for their ‘looking out for the little person’ rhetoric?

    Commenter
    Gigondas
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 1:43PM
    • What's the bet a PUP back flip involves making a bigger hole in the budget emergency.

      Commenter
      nolongerconfused
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:10PM
    • Gigondas, maybe PUP won't flip this time. Unlike the CT the mining tax does not have any direct impost on Clive's interests. He may have large holdings in iron ore & coal but he doesn't mine them himself. He just collects royalty, which would not be subject to a mining tax.

      Commenter
      Lewis
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:12PM
    • No human can apparently resist the Abetz charm Gigondas, which perhaps proves the Star Wars Senate claim of aliens on the cross benches (or not).
      I think Abetz has all the charm of a tin can and is entirely resistable.
      The jury is still out on the origins of the cross benches.

      Commenter
      Lyn
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:47PM
    • Point taken, Lewis. I wonder if Clive thinks he should look after his colleagues in the billionaire mining magnate club. Does he play speakies with Gina and Twiggy?

      Commenter
      Gigondas
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:05PM
    • Gigondas, I suspect when you have that much money you're not even aware of anybody else as persons. They're all just either enemies, competitors or pawns.

      Commenter
      Lewis
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:21PM
  • Rio Tinto posts record iron ore production...2 days ago.

    Google the all the the mining companies and look at the facts.

    It is now time to triple the mining tax. Gillard/Swan said once the mining companies swung into high production thats when the MRRT would flow.

    Wake up Australia - they are rolling in billions whilst raping your land and your resources.

    Coward Abbott who boasts being the tough guy; is too scared to tax his billionaire buddies.

    This old man is no leader for this fine country.

    tick tock tick tock

    Commenter
    punch
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 1:42PM
  • 1.36pm: Just how may triggers for a DD does Mumbles need? (or is he ICACing himself over coming sideshows in NSW?)

    Commenter
    David D
    Location
    Ettalong Beach
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 1:42PM
  • 1:39pm: Looks like Tony has to get the knee pads on and Clive pays his bill!

    Commenter
    Get Real
    Location
    Where a mandate is not a mandate
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 1:42PM
  • Andie

    In case you have missed this compare it with growing trees for carbon abatement.

    Despite the Four Corners recent in depth programme on Concentrated solar power (CSP) 39 Australian senators are obviously non-compos mentis of the abilities of 1.04 TW h/year CSP plants, (1 terawatt = 1 000 000 000 000 watts) for a cost of $2.2 billion each. The 39 senators also remain oblivious that 1842 KWh per ton of coal x 40 years plant lifespan saves 239,739,400 million tonnes of coal, x $72 per ton for $17,261,236,800 that’s billions in savings, and abates 685,654,684 (million) tonnes of Co2 emissions. Nevertheless the 39 senators saw fit to repeal a tax worth approximately $7 billion this year and so prevented any chance of having the benefits of these savings.

    For the cost of $7 billion we could have funded 3 x 1.04 terawatt hours per year CSP plants to abate 2.056 billion tonnes of Co2 and save taxpayers $51.78 billion over 40 years. So you tell me the financial benefit in using fossil fuels. Every CSP power stations provides the savings for an additional 7.84 CSP plants. So why Direct Action? Why no carbon tax? Why is the carbon tax an economy wrecker when it is the opposite?

    Commenter
    Pen of hrba
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 1:36PM
    • Pen

      Could have, should have would have.

      Ivanpah Solar has barely come on line. give it time for proper analysis, let alone changes and advancements to the technology and Project, which in time, may benefit numerous countries.

      Just because it is there, doesn't mean it is the end all be all

      Commenter
      $keptic
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:50PM
    • 794 Pen.

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:50PM
    • $keptic

      You miss the point, the technology used by Ivanpah has been in use for over a decade in Spain.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:14PM
    • Gal

      I'm content to imagine the growing panic at day 50, it won't be long. What's the betting that he suddenly takes an interest in climate change?

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:45PM
    • Pen is that why the industry in Spain failed miserably and they are now building coal power stations??

      Commenter
      Andie
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:27PM
    • By day 50 pen, the world would've moved on and increasingly more Nations take proactive measures to reduce emissions and embrace renewables. We'll have some climate change all right. political Climate Change.
      Time passes quicker as you age, so it'll be here before we know it. It's the damage in the meantime that concerns me.
      And yes Genie oil is but one of Rups distractions.

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:38PM
  • Mining tax lives - @H still have any of that champers left from yesterday? Or has it all gone flat and bitter?

    Commenter
    davemac
    Location
    Melbourne
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 1:33PM
  • 1:25pm: "Eric Abetz tells the chamber that the Australian people will be watching very closely."

    He's right, but probably not for the reasons he thinks.

    Commenter
    Oliver More
    Location
    Melbourne
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 1:31PM
  • 1:20pm:

    Great one Rupert - let's make a tragic day like today all about you.

    Commenter
    Carl
    Location
    Melbourne
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 1:27PM
    • It is however, the most humble day of his life.

      Commenter
      davemac
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:37PM
  • 1:10pm: Poor old Ian is losing it! LNP dinosaurs this party is full of them, what they need to do is clear out the relics of the Howard failed era.

    Commenter
    Get Real
    Location
    When senility dictates retirement
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 1:15PM
  • 1:04pm "If you choose to let the big miners of the hook ... [don't expect us to] take the money off the poor,"
    Christine Milne has just summed up the PUP/Abbott government.

    Commenter
    Get Real
    Location
    At the mailbox waiting for my $550 dollars
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 1:08PM
    • Abbott/PUP government! Has a oood ring to it and is pretty close to the truth. Sounds like a keeper!

      Commenter
      Pieron
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:19PM
    • Sums up the most unfair Budget in history, in one neat sentence. Rather than ditching the tax they should be amending it to collect what we are rightfully owed. Why protect the Globals.
      How long are you planning on waiting at the mailbox? Hope you've pitched your tent.

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:19PM
  • Anyone else notice that a certain liberal is missing from all the liberal mess?...can anyone guess who.

    Commenter
    Steeden
    Location
    Ballina
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 1:07PM
    • Would his initials be M.T by any chance?

      Commenter
      Archer
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:10PM
    • Yes, while the current Minister against the Environment can completely contradict the views he once had, others don't give up their principles so easily. Find it incredible the guy is so unpopular with Lib supporters, and so popular with Labor. Says a lot really.

      Commenter
      davemac
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:20PM
    • Perhaps MT is organising his resignation from the Liberal Party and looking to run as an Independent Or is it as Labor Party member - that might be his chance at prime ministership. I bet he's more popular with Labor voters than Liberal voters.

      Commenter
      stevek
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:45PM
  • Eric (Clarence the Clocker) wants the senate to *run dead*. Come on mate! No race fixing!

    Commenter
    David D
    Location
    Ettalong Beach (take a swab!)
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 12:47PM
    • Eric....speaks like a cop...Abetz

      You have to say 'Simon says' agree to the repeal. Then proceed in a westerly direction, alight the ve-hi-cle and.....

      Commenter
      davemac
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:05PM
  • Andie

    Wow two million trees hey? Let me see now, here we are, according to “Australia’s Chief Scientist forests with continuous canopies abate about 0.5-2 tonnes of carbon per year for each hectare.”

    So 2 million trees spaced by say one per 3 square metres = 450 trees per hectare requires 4,444,44 hectares x 2 tonnes of abatment per heactare = 8,888.88 tonnes of co2 abatment.

    One year of current Australian coal production (414 million tonnes) produces 1,184 billion tonnes of Co2 emissions. So your 2 million trees abate, wait for it, 0.007507432432432432% of one year of coal emissions.

    While I support more trees by the billions they can never reduce the amounts of Co2 that is required in the time that we have left.

    Commenter
    Pen of hrba
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 12:37PM
    • Planting trees is a great idea, but all it takes is a decent drought and/or a bushfire and years of stored carbon is released, often in one day. Eventually the trees will die or be used and some of that carbon will be released from wood that is left to rot. It would be better not to have put any of that carbon into the atmosphere in the first place but that simple concept doesn't seem to have any appeal.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:43PM
    • But it's the thought that counts.

      Commenter
      Thoughtless
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:43PM
  • It really shows that the 2 major parties are exactly the same doesnt. Voting to get rid of QANTAS.

    Commenter
    Daniel
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 12:15PM
    • Who is voting to get rid of QANTAS? Why do the left have to throw in these wild, unfounded, deceitful lines like voting to get rid of Qantas. As they could anyway. In any case why is the left upset about a huge carbon emitting airline? I would have thought that the sooner Qantas died the better it would be for the planet.

      Commenter
      Denny
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:44PM
  • 11.56 "Laying of Hands" or Reiki.

    Commenter
    A country gal
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 12:08PM
    • Nah. Mumbles only does *Wrecky*

      Commenter
      David D
      Location
      Ettalong Beach
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:26PM
    • Heh, heh, adept at that.

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:42PM
  • If Labor are so keen to keep some of their legacy like the school kids bonus and the low income super contribution, why doesn't the government find a way to force them to choose between those measures and some of the other budget item being rejected ?

    For example, if they want to keep the LISC, they might need to pass the Medicare co-payment. Or to keep the schoolkids bonus, the PPL would need to be approved.

    Labor spent five years thinking they could spend the lot and throw it on the national credit card. At some point they need to learn that you can't have it all.

    Commenter
    Hacka
    Location
    Canberra
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 12:02PM
    • Perhaps we could reverse the structural revenue deficit that Howard introduced through unsustainable income tax cuts. I'll support that.

      As long as increased revenue is off the table, Hockey's budget is nothing more than patently failed economics of selfishness (Hayek/Rand/Chicago School) masquerading as economic management.

      Commenter
      Whyalla Wipeout
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:18PM
    • I believe in the end they will let the LNP pass most of their crap policies one way or the other including the PPL and let Abbott and PUP wear the backlash. Labor will make a stand on the copayment, youth allowances the most execrable stuff and will make enough noise so the electorate knows they are not to blame. Abbott will just end up with the worst of both worlds more debt and unpopularity in the electorate. Blaming Labor for his own ideological inadequacies his own debt and deficit catastrophe won't wash then anymore. Captain chaos full steam ahead to disaster. Actually he doesn't have to go far, he is pretty much there already, he can actually just cruise to oblivion at this rate.

      Commenter
      GOV
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:21PM
    • @Hacka, neither the Medicare co-payment nor the PPL will add to gov't revenue to enable the schoolkids bonus or the LISC to be paid. Didn't you get your copy of the prepared script today, altho the idea does have the whiff of Hockeynomics about it.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:23PM
    • That sounds suspiciously like the heresy of negotiation.

      Commenter
      Unhackable
      Location
      Sysdney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:29PM
    • Funny one Whyalla - you seem to have skipped the last six years of fiscal mismangement that we've just gone through.

      So the question is what would Labor concede in order to keep the school kids bonus - would they, for example, pass the fuel excise indexation to do it ?

      Commenter
      Hacka
      Location
      Canberra
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:31PM
    • The daily spin. Oh pleeeeze.

      Commenter
      Same old spin doctors rubbish
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:32PM
    • Speaking of 'five'. What happened to those five weeks? I must've over slept.

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:33PM
    • Hacka,
      you've tied yourself up in knots again; they're all spending initiatives, not savings.

      Looks like the LNP are into spending spree again, it must be another mining boom around the corner.

      Commenter
      Econorat
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:39PM
    • Whyalla , is that the 'structural deficit' that paid off $90 billion in Labor debt and gifted Swan $19 billion in his first and only surplus?

      Commenter
      SteveH.
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:39PM
    • Hacka, just sit back and think for a moment - your comment assume Labor just spent tax payer money on their relatives or to enrich themselves. The truth is all money borrowed or otherwise were spent on the people of Australia - rich or poor, Liberal voters or Labor voters to keep them in jobs, kept the GFC at bay, protected the environment, provided financial guarantee for the big Banks - threaten with massive funds withdrawal by depositors and investors (similar to the run of Greek Banks) at the same time invested on the future of this country, the future of all of us, not just LNP, ALP, Green but all of us Australians. Yesterday on the repealing of the CT you wrote the winners were Australians and the losers were Labor, Greens, that was the most unfortunate comment you have ever made and it is the proof of your divisive attitude.

      Commenter
      Mais51
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:48PM
    • Econorat - perhaps the orignal example wasn't the best, but regardless the budget needs to return to surplus. Whether it's the supply side or the revenue sides that need to be changed doesn't really matter - being able to fund government appropriations does.

      How would you fix it ?

      Commenter
      Hacka
      Location
      Canberra
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:49PM
    • @H It's the governments responsibility to govern, so don't blame Labor for the dirty deals with Clive. Labor being consistent, standing up for a tax package in total that they initiated.

      No mandate for this, Joe will have to keep the tax or find other ways to balance the budget. maybe less spin doctors? We'll miss you.

      Commenter
      davemac
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:53PM
    • Good to come onboard and read the usual fiscal mismanagement post from the number one spin merchant. Will be fun watching Abbott deconstruct now that he has no more slogans left!

      Commenter
      Get Real
      Location
      The vaccum one then slogans have gone!
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:58PM
    • Mais51 - you can try to pretty it up as much as you want, but the truth is Labor needlessly spent what they didn't have and kicked the debt down the road so the kids get to pay for their parents lifestyle.

      And to this day, Shorten has not a single plan or clue on how to return the budget to equilibrium.

      Commenter
      Hacka
      Location
      Canberra
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:01PM
    • Bang on the untruths about debt all you want Hacka but your lot have destroyed the future who cares about the debt then!

      Commenter
      Get Real
      Location
      Spinning the future the way Hacka wants
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:12PM
    • Again @H as you regularly remind us - Bill isn't in power! Didn't see TA put up many alternatives when he was saying No as opp leader. It's not just Labor saying No mate.

      But to get you started - here's some ideas

      - Don't scrap the CT and lose the income, damn - ideologically and politically unsound. But blame Labor anyway for the shortfall.
      -Ditto mining tax, ditto
      -Don't gift 8bn to reserve bank
      -Don't bring in a PPL thought bubble policy
      -Don't wind back the means testing on health insurance premiums - hang on, that's class warfare

      and here's one or two that's out there
      -Go after multinationals that shift all their tax out of the country rather than putting everything on low-middle income earners
      -then you have super/neg gearing to look at

      Off you go, that's enough for now.

      Commenter
      davemac
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:14PM
    • @Gov. Plausible scenario.

      Commenter
      Pluto
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:18PM
    • @Hacka Shgorten need be only be as forthcoming as Abbott was when Abbott was opposition leader on how to fix the Budget. But then almost everything that Abbott said before the election turned out to be lies and will be replayed to the public by Labor in the next election campaign. What he promised. What he did. That's why Abbott won't be your glorious leader at the next election. No credibility.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:19PM
    • Hacka, Seriously why do we have to have a surplus - a surplus does nothing to us, it may give us a warm feeling in the stomach but really it does nothing - money has to be out there making things happened, building roads, bridges, helping the poor, provide future for the kids. If we need more we should and must borrow more - to the limit of our repayment capacity. If everyone is waiting for a surplus in their bank accounts no one would buy any houses or even cars. Remember housing loans, personal loans and everyday credit cards loans. That's the way the financial word operate. Why do we value our country credit rating - because it dictates the interest on the nation loans and at the moment we have the world highest credit rating AAA. They don't judge a country credit rating by how much surplus it has but how much it can repay - and the capacity to repay is the most important factor of all. And if we stop investing on our future we also stop investing in our capacity to repay. So surplus is a load of hot air. So go ahead and borrow money, run budget to a manageable deficit because the world over from the richest to the poorest everyone does it

      Commenter
      Mais51
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:26PM
    • Hacka, judging by your comment and looking at the photo 11:56 it appears the LNP are desperate for Bill to provide them with policy ideas.

      Commenter
      Get Real
      Location
      The policy vaccum deepens now the slogan has gone.
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:28PM
    • Mais51 - in the short term whether we're in surplus or deficit doesn't really matter. But given we've had deficits for five years, it's meant debt. $300 billion of it. Serviceable by $1 billion per month in interest.

      What could that $1 billion get us - a couple of new hospitals per month ? Ten new schools ? A hundred wind farms ? A university or two ? Better pensions ?

      So you tell us - do you reckon debt matters ?

      Commenter
      Hacka
      Location
      Canberra
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:44PM
    • @H and on the other side of the coin, what nation building did Howard and Costello do with the windfall from the mining boom? Just piled up a surplus because they could, and pissed the rest against the wall in middle aged welfare. The most TA's got to offer now is building roads at the expense of public transport - echoed by the Vic govt we have here for the next few months.

      Commenter
      davemac
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:57PM
    • hacka,
      There's a tax review coming up, perhaps we can see what that brings. basically the last budget could have been tweaked to be fairly neutral and positive thoughts; that would promote growth, GDP and hence increase tax take for the government.
      decreasing GDP = less tax for the government. So while Joe is saying 'let's go for growth' with the next thing he's actually cutting GDP growth.
      Believe it not, it is very important to have a smaller gap between rich & poor, not a larger gap; that is actually good for business & hence pays the government more tax.
      Possible new taxes in a land tax for all states to implement, tweak the mining tax, not repeal it. (ie.e get rid of royalties and give the mining tax to the states).
      I could go on. Oh,.... dump the PPL, another expenditure item.

      Commenter
      Econorat
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:05PM
    • Well davemac...the a howard govt was using that dreaded surplus for a funny little thing called the. 'future fund'.

      http://aofm.gov.au/speech/aofm-activities-for-2005-06/

      But along came a much better 'worlds greatest treasurer' who spent a gazillions dollars and then raided it to balance the books and made it look to the rest of the world that he knew what he was doing.
      Stoooopid surplus.

      Commenter
      Sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:24PM
    • Hacka you make me laugh - who's office did you say you worked in again??

      Commenter
      Bored46
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:28PM
    • Hacka and SteveH, incessant repetition of Lieberal lies does not make truth - it just proves Joseph Goebbels dictum to be correct.

      The fact is that the economy was brilliantly managed over the six years of the Labor Government as we made it through the Global Financial Crisis better than any other developed nation.

      Lying about it and ignoring critical facts does not turn lies into truth!

      Commenter
      Whyalla Wipeout
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:46PM
    • Hacka,
      "What could that $1 billion get us - a couple of new hospitals per month ? Ten new schools ? A hundred wind farms ? A university or two ? Better pensions"
      That's the point, by paying off the debt at a fast rate you actually forgo building those very things you are talking about.

      think of it this way. you have a house mortgage, which inflation and payments is making smaller (in real and nominative terms). you are advocating that we divert our other 'free income' money to only paying off the house instead of funding our kids universities, a new driveway to your property instead of the dirt one, buying a security system for the house, and investing in higher education for yourself.

      You know it makes no sense to do this, then why do you argue it makes sense for the government to do what you & TA are advocating?????
      Comment? and don't go to extreme arguments about over borrowing, when we are not over-borrowed.

      Commenter
      Econorat
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:54PM
    • Econorat - i dunno how you slipped wealth distribution issues in there but in terms of GDP growth the budget has some fair and achieveable numbers in there - 2.75% this year and the same next year (i think - don't quote me).

      But yes you're quite right - Joe's big job is to get the pie growing back towards "trend" again.

      Commenter
      Hacka
      Location
      Canberra
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:06PM
    • Econorat - not getting into so much debt in the first place might have been a smarter idea.

      And let's face it - Labor spent $250 billion over and above the original stimulus packages. What did we get for it besides debt ?

      Commenter
      Hacka
      Location
      Canberra
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:12PM
    • Labor's last budget and settings confirmed by PEFO got to approximately the same place as the Libs budget and forward estimate projections.
      Proving there are other ways to make the savings and get the budget back to surplus without punishing and pursuing only the the lower end of town, as the Libs are doing.

      Commenter
      Lyn
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:12PM
    • hacka,
      They didn't 'spend' $250b over the original stimulus package. because at Oct 2013 the net deficit was only $190B, $60B of which was stimulus, the other was to keep paying the army, courts, pensions, build roads/rail etc.
      Apparently you claim that's over spending?
      i would say that it was actually a fall in revenue, not over spending.

      Governments are like a massive ocean liner, you can't spin them around or make sharp turns. The economic stabilisers are slow to adjust and take many years. 5 years of GFC income hits can cause revenue problems not associated with spending. Governments can't just stop paying pensions, wages, infrastructure spend just to 'balance' the books.

      This is becoming repetitively boring to keep schooling you on public economics 101.

      Commenter
      Econorat
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:51PM
    • You're right hacka,
      We do have to grow the pie.
      Growing the pie, as recommended by most economists, is to have an equitable society (property rights and income levels).

      Both sides of government, labor and LNP must not pander to either entirely the poor or business but must strive to get the mix right. This current budget did not achieve that aim.

      Commenter
      Econorat
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:54PM
    • Econorat - should i remind you of the famous Rudd quote:

      “Because of the global recession the Government will go into temporary deficit.” (3/2/2009).

      So what happened to the "temporary" bit, because there was nothing temporary about the next four years deficits ?

      Commenter
      Hacka
      Location
      Canberra
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:25PM
    • @Sick of the left - get your facts straight. The Future Fund was paid for by Howard selling off Telstra which any bozo could do and had little to do with managing a deficit well.

      Having said that, the Future Fund is a great idea however it would have been great if he had bothered to do the hard yards and put some of that middle class welfare paid for by the mining boom into the FF.

      Commenter
      Lance
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:31PM
  • 11.21 to 11.41am: All out, in again, out again....more stoppages than a 70s waterfront dispute! Onya Comrade Pyne!

    Commenter
    David D
    Location
    Ettalong Beach
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 11:57AM
  • Does anyone els pick up that Abbots comments at 11:08 look as though they apply perfectly to liberal assylum seeker policy!

    Commenter
    Nicco
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 11:25AM
    • They should keep Abbott well away from making any comments on foreign affairs. He has a track record of making bad situations worse.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:41AM
    • No, but it does apply to how Australia has dealt with Timor-Leste in negotiating the Greater Sunrise gas fields.

      Commenter
      Lewis
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:42AM
    • Yes if only this sort of thing applied to his Refugee policy. Whats happening with those people that are locked in a room on the customs vessel with no windows?

      Commenter
      Daniel
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:12PM
    • Oh yes Mitch. You are spot on. Maybe you need to run up the hill and give Tony some guidance.

      Its funny that despite his extremely successful o/s trips, the left still carry on like children about Abbott and his diplomacy. If they cant find anything to mock then they make it up.

      Commenter
      Denny
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:52PM
    • @Denny, Abbott sure is a master of the English language when it comes to giving left-handed compliments to our neighbours. Our relations with just about all of them gave taken a tumble during his watch, not always for what he did, but what he said afterwards. Not to mention stirring up half-century old grievances and putting Australia in the middle.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:36PM
  • I hate to make a comment on the back of a tragedy such as has occurred to today. It's a difficulty that all of us here on Pulse share. But when Tony Abbott says that "the bullying of small countries by big ones... should have no place in our world," I am thinking, well I wouldn't, in fact don't, put it past our government to do just that in order to get its way in our region. Particularly when it comes to the whole asylum-seeker issue.

    Commenter
    Pluto
    Location
    Melbourne
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 11:20AM
    • @Pluto the shameful treatment of East Timor by this gov't comes so easily to mind. You have to wonder when you hear poliitcians make statements like that if they have any sense of shame.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:28AM
    • Glad it wasn't just me thinking such, when I read it. I immediately thought Timor Leste and the whole asylum seeker/refugee issue.
      A terrible and deliberate tragedy.

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:37AM
    • I wondered who would be first to politicize this tragedy. Congratulations.

      Commenter
      brian
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:46AM
    • @brian, this whole tragedy was caused by politics.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:56AM
    • Hi Brian - I agree - some people on here just cannot help themselves. Shameful

      Commenter
      Next Mini Ice Age
      Location
      Brisbane
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:00PM
    • brian, it's Abbott's hi-faluting words, not the situation, that people are commenting on.

      I think that all Australians, whatever their politics, are actually aghast at what happened over the Ukraine. But generalised motherhood statements should be thought through carefully, even by our Prime Minister.

      Commenter
      Whyalla Wipeout
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:01PM
    • If Abbott doesn't try to use this tragedy for political gain it would be a first. Even his "shit happens' visit to Afghanistan was to try and blame a soldiers death on lack of equipment because of Labor. Except the soldiers didn't play fair and said it was about war (shit happens) and not Labor denying our military necessary equipment.

      Commenter
      Dr Bombay
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:49PM
    • WW, that's a pathetic excuse for a pathetic argument to be running today.

      Commenter
      Jim
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:01PM
    • @ Whyalla - there can't be too much wrong with what you describe as Abbott's "high-faluting" words since Shorten and Bandt have both endorsed what he said in parliament.
      As for the rest of the negative comments - 295 innocent people have been slaughtered without cause. Absolute shame on all of you for making politics out of such a tragedy.

      Commenter
      Tim (Unfortunately not from Altona)
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:39PM
    • Timor-Leste!!!!!!!!!

      Commenter
      Eagle42
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:46PM
    • I am not making politics out of tragedy. How is it that criticising Abbott's insincerity is making politics out of tragedy.

      Ironically it is Abbott, once again who makes politics out of tragedy.

      And, of course, people like you who misrepresent what I say. Indeed, your fake outrage is what makes politics out of tragedy.

      Commenter
      Whyalla Wipeout
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:48PM
    • Tim, I feel no shame. Viewing other leaders comments clearly makes his stand out from the rest. My daughter is currently posted in Timor Leste, and upon reading that foolhardy comment my instinct took me straight to TL. Previous Govts have treated TL with absolute contempt and this one has deliberately continued to muddy those waters. Best you read up on the. Sunrise Fields, Downer, Woodside et al.
      It is our Govts who should feel the shame and foolhardy chest beating comments that attempt to capitalise on a tragedy.

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 4:56PM
  • Seems like its not just Australia thats got a financial crisis according to Smokin Joe Hockey.

    Now hes claiming Governments "basically all around the world" have run out of money for infrastructure".

    He's out with his begging bowl at the B20 meeting telling them all that "we need you , we need your money".

    Commenter
    mirrorsofsmoke
    Location
    sydney
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 11:03AM
    • “Middle-East looks at $50 billion to spend on solar power by 2020.
      China’s 12th five year plan, for 2011 to 2015, calls for installing 1,000 MW by 2015, and 3,000 MW of CSP plants by 2020.
      United Arab Emirates, estimates the region will install 12,000-15,000 megawatts of solar power by 2020, with another 22,000-25,000 gigawatts from other renewable energy sources such as wind energy and hydropower.
      The Australian science agency CSIRO is working on a “supercritical” steam system for concentrating solar power plants, in the US CSIRO has partners who build CSP plants.
      The CSIRO supercritical steam means solar energy will have the same rate of performance as coal or gas in power plants. When combined with thermal energy storage capability or with other advanced battery technology, the need for building new fossil fuel power plants evaporates.”

      I’m afraid that Hockey is practising what the Coalition do best: lying.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:09PM
    • hats wrong with the begging bowl? The left have been out with their begging bowls for two months now. For example, they are not prepared to dig into their own pockets to find $7 to go to a doctor but they expect somebody else to pay the bill for them.

      Commenter
      Denny
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:01PM
    • Denny,
      Spoken like a true Financial Advisor. LOL

      Commenter
      Denny never liked transparency.
      Location
      Denny's Merc.
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:55PM
    • Pen, China will still be getting 30% of its power from coal.

      Commenter
      Andie
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:20PM
    • Oh Denny,
      So 75% of the population who object to the $7 co-payment are 'left' are they?

      Left of what exactly?

      Commenter
      Econorat
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:22PM
  • All well for The Brick to say Qantas is not for sale when he doesn't own it. It is a public company & its shareholder should decide its ownership through the ASX. I'm so glad I sold out long ago.

    Commenter
    Lewis
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 10:58AM
  • 10.36am: Sorry Brick, the Reef is crook, its pretty hard to find a decent meat pie(except in Ettalong Beach), and the Emus all have their heads buried in the hot sands of climate change denial. Do you really think Qantas is that bad?

    Commenter
    David D
    Location
    Ettalong Beach
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 10:43AM
    • Yeh if the Brick is worried about the GBR he should be attacking his leader Palmer about his storage pans from his nickel plant that sometimes he discharges into the GBR.

      Commenter
      Andie
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:24AM
  • 9.43am: Mitch ($5 haircuts) Fifield...*today...is an extension of yesterday*....Is this a new Government policy? We never have to worry about today or tomorrow ever again? Beauty! No future! No more broken promises coming up!

    Commenter
    David D
    Location
    Ettalong Beach (never mind the...)
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 10:34AM
    • They've been saying that since the early 50's, David.

      Commenter
      Gigondas
      Location
      Close enough to Ettalong to know there are no good pies to be had there
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:04AM
    • Gigondas - (Ocean View Rd near Picnic Pde now I might get a discount!) Yep, a white picket fence for every wholesome Oz family. And no pesky renters.

      Commenter
      David D
      Location
      Ettalong Beach
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:16AM
    • David- (cnr Victoria and Althorp, East Gosford, OR cnr Cape Three Points Rd and Yodalla, Avoca Beach) Too true. No riff raff allowed. Those picket fences look really nice when they’re white.

      Commenter
      Gigondas
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:01PM
  • While obviously the headlines are dominated by the terrible disaster in the Ukraine, today we have also received news that Johnny Winter is dead. Anybody who saw ‘Johnny Winter Down and Dirty’ at the recent Sydney Film Festival, or have enjoyed his virtuoso blues guitar over the years, will be greatly saddened.

    Johnny had quite a perverse sense of humour, so I suspect that he would be quite happy for it to be said that it’s ironic the death of our one small effort to do anything about carbon pollution coincided with the death of Winter.

    Commenter
    Gigondas
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 10:29AM
    • Vale Johnny Winter & that bit of humor is quite perverse.

      Commenter
      Lewis
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 10:52AM
  • What did we learn yesterday 2

    Despite Four Corners, 39 senators remain non-compos mentis of 1.04 TW h/year CSP plants, (1 terawatt = 1 000 000 000 000 watts). Therefore also oblivious of 1842 KWh per ton of coal x 40 years plant lifespan saves 239,739,400 million tonnes of coal, x $72 per ton for $17,261,236,800 savings, and abates 685,654,684 tonnes of Co2 emissions. Nevertheless they repealed $6 billion in funding to prevent these savings.

    India substantially out spends Australia on green energy.

    Saudi Arabia is spending $25 billion on CSP, which we won’t bother tendering.

    We won’t have an ETS if Abbott, Palmer and Hunt have their way.

    Australia cannot change the climate, control is by ocean climate, ocean warming is by Co2 emissions, which require drastic cuts, but the repeal means we can’t.

    Some are still perplexed why warming oceans melt glacial ice, whilst less dense fresh water melt freezes creating top thin layer ice growth.

    We have “a conservationist government” that has abolished conservation.

    Morrison believes the opposition are a school swarm of blooming jellyfish.

    The carbon tax has gone yet prophesised to be resurrected in 794 days according to the Coalition book of bull shit.

    We have confirmation that one year’s production Co2 by coal (1.184 billion tonnes) requires 592 million hectares and 266.4 billion mature trees for its abatement by Direct Action.

    Delores axes Labor MP’s, but has never seen a Direct Action tree.

    ASIO operations are deemed more dangerous than climate change.

    If the States invest in proliferating Co2 emissions Abbott will give them a 15% bonus.

    Abbotteers remain confused why 27% increase in atmospheric Co2 creates global warming.

    A sustainable population is apparently crueller to children than climate change?

    The insanity continues.

    Commenter
    Pen of hrba
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 10:14AM
    • Nice cut and paste from the other page Pen.
      I for one am happy the tax is gone and temperatures have risen between 4 and 6 degrees today ... lovely outside righg now!

      Commenter
      sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 10:49AM
    • sick of the left

      I rest my case, how stupid and gullible can a human be?

      By the way before one can cut and paste one first must learn what to cut and paste. Most learning comes by reading, I have two degrees by reading for ten years at two universities.

      So, Sick of Left what exactly is your academic record?

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:02AM
    • She should come to Brisbane. The Liberal City Council has planted over 2 million trees under the leadership of Newman and now Quirk.

      Commenter
      Andie
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:26AM
    • Bachelors degree and Masters. Didn't take 10 years though.

      Commenter
      sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:29AM
    • Sick of the left

      Then that being case why argue lies and stupidities against proven facts and the truth? Is it because you are naturally antagonistic or that you so rusted on to Abbott's inanities you cannot think straight?

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Pen of hrba
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:14PM
    • Perhaps I question some of the points made on here that are far from objective and perhaps not so well thought out. A shame opinions only count if they are the same as yours.

      Commenter
      Sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:28PM
    • @Sick of the Left - How much did your degree and Masters cost you, and could you afford the proposed Uni payments scheme?

      Commenter
      Maxis
      Location
      Canberra
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:32PM
    • Well said Pen. These spin doctors sprout the same lies day in day out

      Commenter
      Sick of paying for spin doctors - make the Liberal Party pay for them
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:34PM
    • Pen, funny you should ask how stupid and gullible can a human be?

      It seems that warmers all over the world have been sucked in by he junk science that is climate fraud, sorry I meant change.

      Alarmist all over the world have come out with crazy predictions that have never eventuated. Only yesterday one of Australia's biggest, Chrissy Milne, said that 6 Billion people will die over the next 80 years because Tony Abbott killed the carbon tax. Do you agree?

      In the last 16-17 years the IPCC tell us there has been no statistical warming of the planet yet emissions have increased exponentially. How many more years of no warming is it going tot before warmers admit they were wrong?

      Commenter
      Denny
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:28PM
    • Come on now, Denny there is more than enough information out there for you to draw a valid conclusion. But we both know you are acting for the sake of being antagonistic.

      I suggest you read http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/03/govt-scientists-antarctic-sea-ice-is-growing-because-of-global-warming/

      And then watch Four Corners programme of last week and Catalyst of last night

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:48PM
    • Well Maxis, I was very fortunate to be lent my HECS debt by the Australian taxpayers which I gladly paid back over a number of years once my salary reached the threshold to do so. I was quite happy to do so as I am an advocate of 'user pays'.

      Commenter
      Sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:07PM
    • Pen, anything on 4 corners or the ABC about Climate change should always be taken with a grain of salt. They are true believers and do not present a balanced position.
      What I don't understand is why you cannot give one warmer prediction that has eventuated? How do you explain their constant failures? Its all very well modelling on computers but the modelling does not reflect reality

      Commenter
      Denny
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:16PM
    • Denny,
      there are extremists on both sides of the climate change debate.
      you cannot stand up and say the 'denialists' are not also got hyperventilation amongst themselves.
      This is silly. The world's main body of scientists and expert agree that CO2 needs to be lowered, they are 95% certain of that.
      the job of politicians is to take that advice and act on it in the most efficient way.
      The rest of us should shut up.

      Commenter
      Econorat
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 2:58PM
  • Condolences to anybody affected by the terrible tragedy in the Ukraine.

    Why is it that the innocent have to suffer the stupidity of the warmongers? There has to be a better way to solve disputes.

    Commenter
    Gigondas
    Location
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 10:07AM
    • Hi Gigondas

      Not with Russians, they have always had a penchant for barbarity. Dare I mention Hungary, Checkoslavakia, Poland, East Germany, the Balkans, Sweden not to mention the world wide terrors they are responsible for. I f I had my way I would cut them off from the entire western communities and every avenue of trade with the west. Oil and gas may be in short supply, but with reserves and proper management with Europe sharing power resources there is no doubt in my mind what the outcome would be: goodbye Putin.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 10:24AM
    • Generally getting rid of defence forces in preference to holding hands and singing kumbaya or tweeting 'give back our girls' has had a much greater effect on the evil forces in the world. Clearly no need for JSF or subs. The world is the most stable it has been for decades right now which is good because it will take decades to rebuild a credible defence deterrence following the last 6 years and 'creative accounting' from the world's greatest treasurer.

      Commenter
      sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 10:53AM
    • Yes, Pen, agree. And the good ol' US of A isn't far behind.

      Speaking of Putin, any nation that's led by someone so desperate to perpetuate his blokey persona that he'll take any opportunity to whip his gear off and peacock his pecs and abs is in deep strife.

      Commenter
      Gigondas
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 10:54AM
    • Sick of Left

      Tell me of any billion dollar defence acquisition and I will tell how it can be destroyed for a fraction of the cost. Now you explain the economic viability of spending on warfare products. Oh, including flying lemons, with stealth that is not stealth.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:06AM
    • Yes awful. Must've been a rather 'handy' missile launcher to shoot down a plane at that altitude. Whoever manufactured and sold the piece of hardware also has blood on their hands.
      The whole arms industry is vile, no matter what side of the fence they sit.

      Commenter
      A country gal
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:45AM
    • Pen, thankfully smart countries invest in credible intelligence agencies to enable them to maintain an advantage over potential adversaries which ensures a technological and situational edge. Unfortunately some people applaud individuals from those countries who give away those secrets to adversaries for their own monetary or egotistical gains.

      Commenter
      sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:46AM
    • Who are we deterring, sick? Defenceless men, women and children on unarmed boats seeking asylum? We don't need strike force fighters that can't fly for that!

      Commenter
      Whyalla Wipeout
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:20PM
    • ...Pen...you can't be serious? What...you'll google how to destroy billion dollar defence capabilities? Why didn't they think of that??
      Please, please, please..DO NOT talk about defence matters...you have NO idea.

      Commenter
      Sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:21PM
    • Sick of the Left

      Well I do know that US stealth aircraft was targeted and brought down with a Russian made SAM, and I know Chinese over-the-horizon radar gives Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile (ASBM) systems the capability to position and destroy aircraft carriers at sea. Which means these missiles can destroy any other ship known. I know no tank can survive a AGM-114R, Spike, Javelin and TOW anti-tank missile attack. Further flying lemons can be seen by long wavelength L-band and X-band radars. I also understand that the Russian made K-77M AIM is more accurate than other missiles. That at considerable distance the K-77M can maintain lock on even on the most agile manoeuvring target and those flying lemons are anything but agile, my dear gullible friend.

      Commenter
      Pen of hrba
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:02PM
    • So, sotl, “smart countries invest in credible intelligence agencies to enable them to maintain an advantage over potential adversaries which ensures a technological and situational edge”.

      But what happens if two smart ‘potential adversaries’ both invest in credible intelligence agencies? Who gets the ‘technological and situational edge’ then?

      Do we end up with mutually assured destruction, or just a bit of what your ilk like to term ‘collateral damage’?

      Doesn’t sound so smart to me.

      Commenter
      Gigondas
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:10PM
    • You of course assume that there is no one in the world that may cause us or our interests harm. Your tv should give you a good reality check I suspect.
      You also expect the ADF to assist in whatever capacity is required at a moments notice but refuse to support funding. Seriously...watch the news.

      Commenter
      Sick of the left
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 3:21PM
  • Looks like foreign affairs will dominate the news today so just as well we have someone who Fairfax’s John Garnaut calls “the most competent foreign minister since Gareth Evans” in charge. Julie Bishop – one of the very few worth feeding in federal Parliament.

    Commenter
    Lewis
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 10:06AM
    • What a terrible tragedy. But I agree with you that here it is being handled my the most competent minister on the Government side.

      Commenter
      Pluto
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 10:16AM
    • The same John Garnaut opens his piece today with the matter of fact presumption that the Abbott government's policy of turning back asylum seekers is necessarily in the national interest.

      Take away the presumption and the sentence, and the point he makes in it, becomes redundant.

      He'll argue that the words about "cold hard light of day" or similar are his alibi, but I can't read it that way no matter how hard I try.

      Commenter
      Peter Cain
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 10:27AM
    • I also agree that JG is the most competent Lib minister, and is doing a much better job than I thought she would. She would do herself a big favour by not getting involved in the bully boy taunting and politics at all costs that TA is championing. Herself and Malcolm need to stay above this so they can help rebuild the party in 2 years.

      Commenter
      davemac
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:59PM
    • Spot my deliberate mistake there? JB not JG.

      Commenter
      davemac
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:36PM
  • If PUP insists with the populist retention of the $10Bn handouts associated with the mining tax then let the repeal bills fail. Leave it to the mining lobby to argue it out with Clive and move on.

    Commenter
    Lewis
    Location
    Sydney
    Date and time
    July 18, 2014, 9:52AM
    • More than happy with that Lewis!

      Commenter
      Whyalla Wipeout
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 10:43AM
    • What? And the government's arguments about the Mining Tax being bad for the economy, what of those?

      I wish your lot would make up their minds; some things are hugely important but only when it suits, when it doesn't, they aren't.

      Empty is the word that springs readily to mind.

      Commenter
      Peter Cain
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:06AM
    • WW, I'd even go further if I were the government. Id fix up the errors & plug the loopholes with ammendments & ram it through with the Greens. Joe could then use it as part of his "alternative budget" towards in "repairing Labor's unholy mess." Wouldn't that be entertaining?

      Commenter
      Lewis
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:11AM
    • @Lewis, even as one accused of being a one-eyed Labor supporter I would support that. The tax should be fixed, not axed. We have a revenue problem with the flow-on effects of the GFC still eroding the revenue base. An economy in decline is not going to make the revenue situation any better. I could also support raising the GST coverage and rate provided that the impacts on low-income earners was mitigated.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:37AM
    • @Lewis - Not that Abbott doesn't want mining Tax or Carbon Tax. He doesn't want the Gillard and Rudd versions - that is all, That why he must have them repealed. Yesterday he did not rule out ever bringing on a carbon tax - his version of carbon tax, same as Hunt - refused point blank to answer questions put to him by Tony Jones of the ABC on Lateline. They basically despise anything Labor, get rid of or heavily modify all Labor initiatives such as Gonski, NDIS, NBN - Politics Above Policy is the three words slogan of this government.

      Commenter
      Mais51
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:48AM
    • @Mais51 and that's why I expect the plain packaging rules for tobacco to be overturned. The Libs are still taking cash from Big Tobacco.

      Commenter
      mitch of ACT
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 11:58AM
    • I think PUP just play hard to get - in the end they will agree to anything Abbott wants with a token amendment or two for face saving purpose. Just look back as PUP behaviors on FoFA Bill and the unconditional repealing of Carbon Tax. after so much fanfare and double talk - even wheeled out Al Gore to fool suckers like us. As the carbon tax has already repealed Palmer zero cost ETS will never get up unless hell freeze over.

      Commenter
      Mais51
      Location
      Sydney
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:14PM
    • And therein lies the rub, Lewis. The public anger at the budget is it's unfairness. All of us would like to pay less tax, but if the pain had been seen to have been spread around and if Abbott had put forward a serious program of reform to be considered while in Opposition, they would probably be ahead in the polls now.

      Instead, what is supposed to be a program of budget reform is, quite rightly, seen as nothing more than putting the burden on the poorest in the community who have been slapped with the tag of 'leaners' to add insult to injury.

      What Palmer is doing, along with Labor and the Greens, is pushing back on what is a form of class warfare driven by Hayek/Friedman economics which takes as axiomatic that small government is always better than large government and that 'freedom' must always be championed even if it means the freedom of the powerful to crush and exploit the weak.

      So, yeah, I would support a root and branch review of welfare. Also a root and branch review of taxation and business and wealth concessions. In these areas there are inevitably a lot of inefficiencies, particularly given that so many of the rules are imposed on the run by politicians of all stripes under political pressure or seeking political advantage (e.g. the Clive show last week).

      But the cost has to be seen to be shared across the community. Increased revenue AS WELL AS decreased spending. Otherwise, it is class warfare perpetrated by the wealthy against the poor by another name.

      Commenter
      Whyalla Wipeout
      Location
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 12:16PM
    • Spot on @Mais51 - Clive playing them like a violin. The more 'disinterested' you look the more they'll give up in return. Just like buying a TV at the Good Guys.

      Shudder to think what price he's going to exact over the next few years.

      Commenter
      davemac
      Location
      Melbourne
      Date and time
      July 18, 2014, 1:03PM
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