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Climate scepticism is good

15 Dec, 2008 10:16 AM
"I am not a climate sceptic," said Senator Nick Xenophon in a recent ABC interview, and went on to explain why. He said he found the case for human-induced global warming generally convincing, though far from certain, and believed governments should take action to reduce greenhouse emissions because of the greater risk of doing nothing.

On most everyday understandings of the term ''scepticism'', the senator was in fact displaying a sceptical attitude towards the issue: he denied that the evidence about global warming was certain and was prepared to entertain doubts about the degree of probability for global warming. His refusal to be labelled a ''climate sceptic'', however, shows how the term has become hijacked in public debate.

''Climate scepticism'' now stands for a policy stance, opposition to the case for emission reduction. It has become detached from its normal sense of reasonable doubt about the science. The confusion is important and reflects a dangerous misunderstanding of how far policy can be based on robust evidence.

In principle, all scientific theories are open to falsification by new evidence and therefore no science can ever be entirely certain. In practice, however, many areas of science are sufficiently well grounded in reliable evidence to be accepted beyond reasonable doubt. But climate science is not among them.

Everyone knows the limitations of short-term weather forecasting. Climate scientists confirm that the large number of independent factors influencing climatic events rules out precise explanation or prediction. With climate change, uncertainty is compounded by the lack of reliable historical data from before the modern period. This does not mean that nothing can be known about climate change or that no predictions are worth making. But it does mean nothing can be known for certain or even with the degree of certainty that can apply in aspects of other sciences, such as physics or chemistry.

Uncertainty pervades the entire field of climate change. Scepticism should therefore be the natural attitude of any intelligent student of the topic.

Proponents of emission reduction policy do their case a disservice by disowning scepticism and reserving ''climate sceptic'' as a term for those who reject their policy. To cast the debate as one between believers and sceptics implies that some sort of faith or belief is needed in order to accept climate change policy. It rules out the more reasoned, sceptical approach that recognises doubts about the evidence for global warming yet decides, on balance, that the risks of inaction are higher than those of inaction.

The faith-versus-scepticism dichotomy also hands an easy propaganda victory to the opponents of climate change policy. Any doubts about the science can be claimed as automatically strengthening the case for inaction. Conversely, supporters of climate change policy are forced into dismissing and disparaging any sceptical voices. But, once the debate is seen to be between various levels of climate scepticism and risk assessment, any new challenge on a point of evidence is simply one more element in the assessment, not a knock-down refutation.

Many proponents of climate change policy are obviously uneasy about admitting the level of doubt that surrounds the science. The recent conclusions of the International Panel on Climate Change, that evidence of climate change is unequivocal and that greenhouse gases are ''very likely'' (90per cent or more probability) to be the cause of such warming, surely overstate the case. The experts clearly fear that no action will be taken unless public opinion believes in the certainty of human-induced global warming.

But hoping for certainty sets the bar for action too high. It also reflects a misunderstanding of the role of knowledge in policy-making. Good policy needs to be informed, where possible, by robust, relevant evidence. But policymakers often have to act without knowing what is happening or what will work. In the current financial crisis, for example, governments find themselves in uncharted waters but cannot afford to delay decisions. No one is requiring certainty before acting or equating uncertainty with inaction.

The same should apply to climate change and environmental policy generally. To look for certainty or near-certainty leads experts into professional dishonesty, forcing them to hide their doubts and the limitations of their evidence.

It also encourages ideological thinking, where public debate becomes polarised between opposing camps unable to admit any contrary evidence that might unsettle their convictions and weaken their advocacy.

Climate change policy, like most major policy, is not a matter of conviction or cast-iron proof but of assessing risks in the context of uncertainty.

Richard Mulgan is a former professor in the Crawford School of Economics and Government at the ANU.

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Good article. I think it's about time that the proponents of man-made global warming front up with some actual evidence - bearing in mind that arbitrary outputs from computer models are not scientific evidence! The IPCC must explain why their projections always showed catastrophic temperature increases in each report, yet the actual global temperature histories show exactly the opposite has been happening, since the El Nino-induced peak of 1998. Sea level rise is slowing (and it was all of a whopping 1.8mm per year to start with!) and we now know that hurricanes, tornadoes etc. are not influenced by global warming (they have not been increasing in number or intensity over the recorded history). The Antarctic ice has not stopped growing despite the IPCC, and temperatures there are constantly falling, except for a small bit which is warming due to volcanic activity and warmer local currents. New evidence shows that large portions of the recent Arctic ice loss can be understood in terms of unusual wind patterns over the last few years. The winds are changing and the ice is growing again. None of this supports any of the original IPCC alarmist projections. Could they and the media have been wrong? Heaven forbid! If the science is settled, then why are so many scientists (31,000 in the US alone) signing petitions against the IPCC conclusions? Are they all paid by oil companies? I doubt it. And why are more and more scientific papers coming out that seriously question the CO2-driven greenhouse theory, instead showing convincing correlations between solar activity and temperature, whereas no such correlation can be seen between CO2 (rising) and temperature (falling or remaining steady at best). The fact is that climate computer models are in their infancy. Just because they can produce fancy coloured graphs and animated globes spinning happily in space doesn't mean that they are right, or even partly right. To test a scientific theory, you have to go out and take actual measurements of the real world to see if your predictions were correct. If not, your model was wrong, and certainly the whole world should not be taking drastic action based on flawed models! There are important questions that need to be answered. If the science is settled, then the evidence should speak for itself. If not, we need to know before we all pour money down a drain!
Posted by Bob D, 15/12/2008 4:58:08 PM
A 'former' professor of Economics and Government is not a Climate Scientist and does nothing to enlighten readers when there are no facts to support his opinion. Can he name one article from a peer reviewed journal that sheds doubt on climate change? Which experts exactly are "uncertain"? Why does the IPCC report "surely" overstate the case, is there another peak climate group with conflicting data? I think we all know the answer is no, noone, and no. This sort of unresearched opinion pushing does nothing for a real understanding of climate change and wastes space for honest scientific debate.
Posted by SayNoToJunkScience, 15/12/2008 6:03:10 PM
Richard Mulgan, an economist, writes: “Proponents of emission reduction policy do their case a disservice by disowning scepticism and reserving ''climate sceptic'' as a term for those who reject their policy. To cast the debate as one between believers and sceptics implies that some sort of faith or belief is needed in order to accept climate change policy. It rules out the more reasoned, sceptical approach that recognises doubts about the evidence for global warming yet decides, on balance, that the risks of inaction are higher than those of inaction.” But the economic risks of constraining emissions from fossil fuel burning are both certain and very great while the risks that the emissions will cause catastrophic climate change are hypothetical. Constraint of greenhouse gases would inhibit use of fossil fuels with resulting economic damage. The effects would be worse than the ‘oil crisis’ of the 1970s because the constraints would need to be more severe, they would be permanent, and energy use has increased since then. The economic disruption in the developed world would disrupt economic activity everywhere. The major effects would be in the developed world because it has the largest economies. But the worst effects would be on the world’s poorest peoples: people near to starvation are starved by disrupted economic activity. And this in a probably futile to attempt to affect the climate of the entire world. The pertinent science to assess the risk of man-made global warming is observation and measurement with logical interpretation of the obtained data for mean global temperature (MGT). This is provided numerically and graphically at http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data /temperature/ There has been no statistically significant rise in MGT since 1995 and MGT has fallen since 1998. Nobody can know if the recent halt to global warming is temporary, permanent or the start of a new warming or cooling phase. But the long term trend suggests the present temperature plateau will remain for about another 20 years because the Earth has had ~30 year periods of alternate warming and cooling since direct measurements began around 1880. The Earth has been warming from the Little Ice Age (LIA) for 300 years so, of course, the warmest years happened recently. But that warming from the LIA peaked in the El Nino year of 1998. MGT has been near but below that peak for the last 10 years. Nothing is constant in nature: everything changes all the time. And the Earth must have warmed or cooled over the past 100 years if its temperature were not constant over the past 100 years. Two thousand years ago – in Roman times – the Earth was warmer than now. After that it was cooler than now throughout the Dark Ages. That cool period was followed by the so-called Medieval Warm Period when the Vikings farmed Greenland and an insect now constrained to the South of France inhabited York in the north of England. Then the Earth cooled to the so-called Little Ice Age. The Earth has been warming out of the Little Ice Age for the 300 years since then. Around 1700, Londoners used to have “Ice Fairs” on the frozen Thames each year. The last Ice Fair was held in 1814, and the Thames has not frozen solid since. A claim that man-made global warming exists is merely an assertion: it is not evidence and it is not fact. And the assertion does not become evidence or fact by being voiced, written in words, or written in computer code. The fact is that any global warming that may have happened during the twentieth century is within natural climate variability that has occurred in the past. And that warming could be a completely natural recovery from the Little Ice Age that is similar to the recovery from the Dark Age cool period to the Medieval Warm Period. Furthermore, the history of the estimated warming of the Earth does not agree with an assertion that human emissions were responsible for the global warming in the twentieth century. The estimates of the Earth’s average surface temperature (mean global temperature: MGT) all show warming from before 1900 to 1940, then cooling from ~1940 to ~1970 with a further period of warming after that. There has been no statistically significant rise in MGT since 1995 and MGT has fallen since 1998. All the estimates of MGT show that most of the warming occurred before 1940 but 80% of the human emissions were after that. Indeed, the start of the cooling period coincided with the start of the major emissions. Advocates of man-made global warming excuse this problem by attributing (a) almost all the rise before 1940 to be an effect of the Sun, (b) the cooling from 1940 to 1970 to be an effect of human emissions of aerosols, and (c) the warming after 1970 to be mostly an effect of human emissions of greenhouse gases. Evidence is lacking for this convoluted story to excuse the disagreement of the emissions with the temperature history. Furthermore, advocates of man-made global warming excuse the lack of warming over the last decade to have been caused by natural effects overwhelming the effect of AGW. However, if this excuse is accepted then it has to be accepted that the warming from about ~1970 to 1998 could also have been caused by these postulated natural effects. In fact, there is no evidence for or against the existence of man-made global warming. The only evidence we have is that recent climate variations are within the range of climate variations that have happened in the past. The UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reported this fact in its Second Assessment Report (SAR). But that is science, and the ‘true-believers’ and the ‘deniers’ of man-made global warming are united in their choosing to ignore science. Considering the above, the Precautionary Principle states that we should not accept the risks of certain economic disruption in attempt to modulate the world’s climate on the basis of assumptions that have no supporting evidence and merely because they have been described using computer games. Simply, “on balance” the risks of action are higher than the risks of inaction and will remain so until there is some evidence for the existence of man-made global warming. Richard
Posted by Richard S Courtney, 15/12/2008 11:18:12 PM
Scepticism is fine for governments making decisions for lots of people, but on an individual level, people have a moral imperative to try and stop climate change. If I drive a little less and buy a few dollars worth of carbon offsets from http://triclimate.com or any other number of places, it's no big deal. So let the government be sceptical. I'll fight global warming on my own terms.
Posted by kriskringle88, 16/12/2008 6:12:20 AM
What, no comments? Too reasonable? Or are we gradually losing interest in the transparently political fraud that the world's climate would stay the same for all time, if only people stopped burning things?
Posted by Crustacean, 16/12/2008 7:19:33 AM
I wonder how many people here contest the theory of gravity? Or the theory of evolution? The structure of scientific discovery is like a wall. Each new finding is repeated and checked hundreds of times, and then peer reviewed before being published in a journal. In this way, the discovery becomes like a new brick in the wall, fitting into previous discoveries, and forming an incomplete, but coherent whole. The theory of human caused global warming is similar to the theory of gravity in that it has been confirmed by tens of thousands of studies in respectable scientific journals. If you want to disprove such a theory that is now part of the scientific canon, you would need to have some breathtakingly excellent evidence, and you would probably win a Nobel Prize for your efforts, since it is so far from that 'wall of evidence' - that common sense of what we know to be true from the rigours of science. These broader themes about the philosophy of science, are explained by John Mashey in his metaphor of 'the Great Wall of science' reproduced below, and at this link: http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2 008/08/john_mashey_on_how_t o_learn_ab.php This also reminds me of that famous book about paradigm shifts- 'the structure of scientific revolutions' by Thomas Kuhn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_ Structure_of_Scientific_Rev olutions
Posted by anneenna, 16/12/2008 10:33:14 AM
In the debate over whether mankind’s emissions of carbon dioxide cause a dangerous rise in the measured global mean temperature (GMT) or not, one first needs to determine what the null hypothesis is. Professor Bob Carter of James Cook University, Townsville, Australia, has written “Given the known natural variability of climate (which is not in dispute) the correct null hypothesis is that observed climate changes are natural, unless and until specific evidence can be adduced to the contrary. Since 1990, western nations have spent between $50 and $100 billion dollars on climate related study and research. Despite this, and the committed efforts of thousands of highly qualified scientists, the null hypothesis remains unshaken. No direct evidence has been produced, or is available, that indicates that human carbon dioxide emissions are having a dangerous influence on global warming. Indeed, for the last 9 years the globe has experienced global cooling despite a concomitant increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide of 5%.” Only direct evidence from the real world can contradict the null hypothesis. The IPCC’s computer models do not produce direct evidence. Rather, they produce ‘what if scenarios’ from a virtual world – the world of computer ‘games’. The old adage of ‘garbage in, garbage out’ applies. With regard to the mention of "fossil fuels", I wish to point out that despite widespread belief to the contrary, oil is not a fossil fuel. This was proven in a paper published in August 2002 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America (PNAS). In this paper it was reported that a team consisting of Russian scientists and Dr J. F. Kenney, of Gas Resources Corporation, Houston, USA, have actually built a reactor vessel and used it to provide physical proof that oil is produced deep down in the earth from calcium carbonate, iron oxide and superheated steam. They also provided the theoretical analysis that proves that for the alkanes comprising petroleum, except for methane, to be formed from biological matter (i.e. for oil to be a fossil fuel) would be in contravention of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. The URL for this paper is www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/99/ 17/10976 Oil is thus a sustainable resource, by the same definition that makes geothermal energy a sustainable resource. Therefore the whole "green energy" drive that has blighted our landscapes and seascapes with wind farms is a complete waste of money and resources, and mankind should be putting more resources into finding more oil and learning how to drill deeper. Of course, once we have learned how to drill deep enough, we can tap into geothermal energy just about anywhere and use it to produce electricity to recharge the batteries of electric cars and boats, all without causing much air and water pollution. I maintain that mankind should be making greater efforts to minimise air and water pollution and am saddened by how distracted mankind has become by the nonscience of AGW. In its headlong rush to become the world's number one superpower, China has become perhaps the world's biggest polluter, perhaps closely followed by India. Peter J. Morgan, New Zealand
Posted by Peter J. Morgan, 17/12/2008 8:49:26 AM
To anneenna: I agree it seems from the way the media reports it that global warming is a rock-solid scientific theory. Unfortunately right from the start the process has been biased. The IPCC was set up by the UN to study the effects of human-induced warming. It does not follow the standard peer-review system - this is well known. Authors can delete peer comments without reason, and expert opinion can be, and is over-ridden when the summaries are produced. Several top scientists have resigned from the IPCC in protest at the overwhelming predominence of politics over science. Hurricane expert Dr Chris Landsea, when he resigned, had this to say about it: "I personally cannot in good faith continue to contribute to a process that I view as both being motivated by pre-conceived agendas and being scientifically unsound." He did this when in spite of the published science and his expert testimony, the IPCC continued to assert that global warming would result in an increase in hurricane/cyclone acivity. You see, the theory of gravity that you mention above follows all the correct science. It has a theory based on mathematical relationships between masses and distances. It makes predictions, which can be checked. It is reproducible - we can all devise experiments to measure its effects. Evolutionary theory is not as clear-cut. It has few, if any, mathematical bases. It cannot be confirmed or dis-proved using experiments. In that sense it is not as strong a theory. Climate science falls between the two. It does use mathematical models, but the science behind them is not nearly as clear-cut as Newtonian physics. This is because the climate is extremely varied and complex. Most of the climate models simply cannot take all factors into account, and there are so many unknowns anyway. So when predictions are made by the IPCC based on these models, it is doubly important that the predictions are checked.
Posted by Bob D, 18/12/2008 12:02:41 PM
Dear Editor, I believe the earth's environment, global economy and geopolitcal situations will soon [2009] coalesce into one almighty catastrophe, that is, all terrestrial lifeforms' annihilation. I am a daddy of a 33yo lady, who produced a thesis on an environmentally based economy [Gaiaism] for a one-world community in 1998. The UN, four PM's and five chiefs justices sent me positive responses, but since then, there has been no affirmative action! God help us? John Berbatis Perth, Australia 19th Dec, 2008 Subject: Att: Sen Penny Wong & Pres Clinton endorses my eco-collapse theory. [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 10:17:37 +0800 From: johnberbatisau@hotmail.com From: johnberbatisau@hotmail.com Recent Letter From: McGrath, Pat (M. Turnbull, MP) (Pat.McGrath@aph.gov.au) You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as unsafe Sent: Tuesday, 9 September 2008 10:14:05 AM To: johnberbatisau@hotmail.com John, I tried to call your mobile, but it said you were out of range. I wanted to call you to let you know that we have received your letter. Please do not hesitate to pass on any further information. Regards, Pat McGrath Office of The Hon. Malcolm Turnbull MP Leader of the Opposition Federal Member for Wentworth Subject: RE: Sen Penny Wong. Pres Clinton endorses my theory. [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED] Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 17:36:21 +1000 From: ciu@environment.gov.au Dear Mr Berbatis Thank you for contacting the Department. Your email has been forwarded to the Office of the Minister for Climate Change and Water, Senator the Hon. Penny Wong. Regards Arwen Community Information Unit Department of Environment, Water, Heritage and the Arts GPO Box 787 Canberra ACT 2601 Phone: 1800 803 772 Fax: +61 (02) 62741970 From: john berbatis [mailto:johnberbatisau@hotmail.co m] Sent: Monday, 30 June 2008 2:40 PM Subject: Att: Sen Penny Wong. Pres Clinton endorses my theory. FW: New Contact Notification - Contact Us - Clinton Presidential Center From: CCI Info (climateinfo@clintonfoundation.or g) Sent: Friday, 27 June 2008 10:03:20 PM To: johnberbatisau@hotmail.com Dear John Berbatis, Thank you for contacting the Clinton Climate Initiative. On behalf of President Clinton, your environmental concern and positive response to our work are deeply appreciated. To learn more about our efforts to initiate programs that directly result in substantial reductions in greenhouse gas emissions and that help to combat climate change at our website, www.clintonfoundation.org. You also can sign up for email updates about the work of President Clinton and the Clinton Foundation. Regards, Event ID: 178741 Event Name: Contact Us - Clinton Presidential Center Supporter ID: 208384654 Reason for contacting the Clinton Presidential Center General Questions/Commen First Name John Last Name Berbatis Email Your Message URL: http://www.exponentialimprovement .com/cms/estexp.shtml In the past ten years, there has been an exponential melting of the ice sheets and a noticeable disintegration of the ice shelves, owing to 'global warming'. The loss of mass from the underlying Tectonics Plates causes them to ascend (iso-static rebound), and this results in an increase in the intensification and frequency of global seismological activity. The seismic data of the past ten years confirm this conjecture. Furthermore, the ice shelves impede the flow of glaciers and ice sheets into to the oceans; and when the 'polar regions' are subjected to unprecedented seismic upheavals, these events will then cause the ice sheets and glaciers to be dislodged en masse into the ocean. This occurrence will then instantly destabilize the earth's crust weight distribution (isostasy), and so precipitate a 'crust displacement' (Mag. 12), that is, an axis change. The previous subterranean extraction of fossil fuels will greatly exacerbate this impending Apocalypse. Currently, the excessive amount of carbon and methane gasses in the atmosphere is causing catastrophic weather conditions, globally - and this situation will rapidly deteriorate into 'a climate runaway'. In 1998, I submitted my warnings on the above matter to various eminent institutions and individuals, to which I received positive responses from PM's Tony Blair, Helen Clark (NZ) & Lee Kwain Yew (Singapore) as well as the UN's - Dr Mary Robinson, Hon. Justice Michael Kirby AC CMG of the High Court of Australia, Premier P. Beattie (Queensland, Au) and Chief Justices of Canada, Norway, Taiwan, Mexico and Netherlands etc,. Reality rules this universe ... not unproductive discussion & debate? From: disasterdiplomacy@hotmail.com To: johnberbatisau@hotmail.com Subject: RE: Global environment collapse -how+why(seismic) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 13:32:39 +0000 Dear John, Thank you kindly for your email and for the information. Yes, there is a reasonable amount of credible scientific literature on the topic of linkages between (i) weather and climate and (ii) tectonic events. The linkages are even stronger when we consider disaster events, not just the environmental changes. It is good to hear about your contribution to this body of research and I hope that you find opportunities to continue such endeavours. I would be cautious about promoting endorsements of science from lawyers, such as the politicians and judges whom you mentioned, because their values and training are not always the most appropriate for judging scientific merit. Some are able to straddle more than one field and make important contributions in several areas, but that does not apply to them all. Mary Robinson left UNHCR in 2002. Reality rules this universe! ... not unproductive discussion & debate? As is clear from my work, including on the disaster diplomacy website, I agree with this sentiment. Ilan Over 2T tons of ice melted in arctic since '03 December 16th, 2008 @ 5:10am WASHINGTON (AP) - More than 2 trillion tons of land ice in Greenland, Antarctica and Alaska have melted since 2003, according to new NASA satellite data that show the latest signs of what scientists say is global warming. More than half of the loss of landlocked ice in the past five years has occurred in Greenland, based on measurements of ice weight by NASA's GRACE satellite, said NASA geophysicist Scott Luthcke. The water melting from Greenland in the past five years would fill up about 11 Chesapeake Bays, he said, and the Greenland melt seems to be accelerating. NASA scientists planned to present their findings Thursday at the American Geophysical Union conference in San Francisco. Luthcke said Greenland figures for the summer of 2008 aren't complete yet, but this year's ice loss, while still significant, won't be as severe as 2007. The news was better for Alaska. After a precipitous drop in 2005, land ice increased slightly in 2008 because of large winter snowfalls, Luthcke said. Since 2003, when the NASA satellite started taking measurements, Alaska has lost 400 billion tons of land ice. In assessing climate change, scientists generally look at several years to determine the overall trend. Melting of land ice, unlike sea ice, increases sea levels very slightly. In the 1990s, Greenland didn't add to world sea level rise; now that island is adding about half a millimeter of sea level rise a year, NASA ice scientist Jay Zwally said in a telephone interview from the conference. Between Greenland, Antarctica and Alaska, melting land ice has raised global sea levels about one-fifth of an inch in the past five years, Luthcke said. Sea levels also rise from water expanding as it warms. Other research, being presented this week at the geophysical meeting point to more melting concerns from global warming, especially with sea ice. "It's not getting better; it's continuing to show strong signs of warming and amplification," Zwally said. "There's no reversal taking place." Scientists studying sea ice will announce that parts of the Arctic north of Alaska were 9 to 10 degrees warmer this past fall, a strong early indication of what researchers call the Arctic amplification effect. That's when the Arctic warms faster than predicted, and warming there is accelerating faster than elsewhere on the globe. As sea ice melts, the Arctic waters absorb more heat in the summer, having lost the reflective powers of vast packs of white ice. That absorbed heat is released into the air in the fall. That has led to autumn temperatures in the last several years that are six to 10 degrees warmer than they were in the 1980s, said research scientist Julienne Stroeve at the National Snow and Ice Data Center in Boulder, Colo. That's a strong and early impact of global warming, she said. "The pace of change is starting to outstrip our ability to keep up with it, in terms of our understanding of it," said Mark Serreze, senior scientist at the National Snow and Ice Data Center in Boulder, Colo., a co-author of the Arctic amplification study. Two other studies coming out at the conference assess how Arctic thawing is releasing methane _ the second most potent greenhouse gas. One study shows that the loss of sea ice warms the water, which warms the permafrost on nearby land in Alaska, thus producing methane, Stroeve says. A second study suggests even larger amounts of frozen methane are trapped in lakebeds and sea bottoms around Siberia and they are starting to bubble to the surface in some spots in alarming amounts, said Igor Semiletov, a professor at the University of Alaska in Fairbanks. In late summer, Semiletov found methane bubbling up from parts of the East Siberian Sea and Laptev Sea at levels that were 10 times higher than they were in the mid-1990s, he said based on a study this summer. The amounts of methane in the region could dramatically increase global warming if they get released, he said. That, Semiletov said, "should alarm people." ___ On the Net: The American Geophysical Union http://www.agu.org RE: Sen. Penny Wong. Evidence of huge ice losses. [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]? From: Error! Filename not specified.CIU Mail (ciu@environment.gov.au) Sent: Friday, 19 December 2008 10:01:10 AM To: john berbatis (johnberbatisau@hotmail.com) --------------------------------- --------------------------- -------------------- Subject: RE: Contact Form Submission from www.malcolmturnbull.com.au Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 18:34:14 +1100 From: Malcolm.Turnbull.MP@aph.gov.au To: johnberbatisau@hotmail.com CC: Greg.Hunt.MP@aph.gov.au Thanks John for your email, all noted and I shall certainly take your comments on board. I have forwarded your comments to Greg Hunt, the Shadow Minister for Climate Change Floods under Antarctic ice speed glaciers into sea: study "Water acts as a lubricant, reducing friction at the base of the ice and making ice flow faster," explained Helen Fricker of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography of California in a commentary, also in Nature Geoscience. Image courtesy of Zina Deretsky NSF. by Staff Writers Paris (AFP) Nov 17, 2008 Scientists unveiled Sunday the first direct evidence that massive floods deep below Antarctica's ice cover are accelerating the flow of glaciers into the sea. How quickly these huge bodies of ice slide off the Antarctic and Greenland land masses into the ocean help determine the speed at which sea levels rise. The stakes are enormous: an increase measured in tens of centimetres (inches) could wreak havoc for hundreds of millions of people living in low-lying deltas and island nations around the world. Researchers discovered only recently that inaccessible subglacial lakes in Antarctica periodically shed huge quantities of water. Data collected by a satellite launched in 2003 -- the Ice, Cloud and Land Elevation Satellite, or ICESat -- revealed a complex network of subglacial plumbing in which water periodically cascades from one hidden reservoir to another. But the new study, published online in the journal Nature Geoscience, is the first to measure the potential impact of this invisible flooding on sea-bound glaciers. A trio of scientists led by Leigh Stearns of the Climate Change Institute at the University of Maine matched ICESat data against a nearly 50-year record of how fast the Byrd Glacier in East Antarctica has moved toward the sea. They discovered that during the same 14-month period that 1.7 cubic kilometres (0.4 cubic miles) of water cascaded through subglacial waterways, the 75-kilometre (45-mile) long glacier downstream pick up speed, moving about 10 percent faster. "Our findings provide direct evidence that an active lake drainage system can cause large and rapid changes in glacier dynamics," the researchers concluded. "Water acts as a lubricant, reducing friction at the base of the ice and making ice flow faster," explained Helen Fricker of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography of California in a commentary, also in Nature Geoscience. "The timing of the onset of speed up matched that of the lake drainage, and the slow-down coincided with the flood cessation," she noted. The study adds to growing scientific concern about the pace at which glaciers are melting into the seas. Two forces -- both driven by global warming -- cause sea levels to rise. One is thermal expansion of sea water. The UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) warned last year that thermal expansion will push sea levels up 18 to 59 centimetres (7.2 to 23.2 inches) by 2100, enough to wipe out several small island nations and severely disrupt low-lying mega deltas in Asia and Africa. But the report failed to take into account the impact of the second force: additional water from melting sources of ice. The ice sheet that sits atop Greenland, for example, contains enough water to raise world ocean levels by seven metres (23 feet). Even the gloomiest global warming predictions do not include such a scenario. But recent studies suggest that runoff from the Antarctic and Greenland ice sheets could drive sea levels higher than once thought, one reason the IPCC decided to remove the upward bracket from its forecast. From: johnberbatisau@hotmail.com To: ecoworrier@thetimes.co.uk Subject: Eco collapse-seismic, Pres. Clinton, NZ & OZ PM's + Prem. of Tasmania respond. Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 10:16:45 +0800 Dear Anna, Soon, a substantial part of the Western Antarctic ice sheet will dislodge, subsequently, this event will create abnormal instabiltiy in 'the Chandler Wobble', which is a constant dynamic on the axis. This effect will cause a much greater intensification and frequency of seismic activity worldwide, until there be an axis change (Mag. 12). John Berbatis Perth, Australia From: Ministerial.Office.of.the.Prime.M inister@ministers.govt.nz Subject: Re: W. Antarctic icesheet unstable - seismic increase. Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:47:32 +1200 Thank you for your e-mail message. It is difficult to respond to the many e-mail messages received. We do however read everything that is sent and if a unique issue has been raised or new information presented we will respond as soon as possible. Dinah Okeby Private Secretary Western Antarctic Ice Sheet From: Ackerley, Beth (Beth.Ackerley@dpac.tas.gov.au) Sent: Tuesday, 17 June 2008 8:18:25 AM To: John Berbatis (johnberbatisau@hotmail.com) Mr John Berbatis Email address: johnberbatisau@hotmail.com Dear Mr Berbatis The Premier, David Bartlett MP, has asked me to acknowledge and thank you for forwarding him your recent email to the Prime Minister in relation to the Western Antarctic Ice Sheet. Yours sincerely Beth Ackerley Executive Officer Premier's Office Telephone: 6233 6068 Fax: 6234 1572 Email: Beth.Ackerley@dpac.tas.gov.au Name: Mr John Berbatis Email Address: johnberbatisau@hotmail.com Postal Address: Australia Subject: Eco danger-axis change, Western Antarctic ice sheet unstable. Comment: Dear The Hon. Kevin Rudd MP, Earth Quake hunters. Wiens's team installs a seismic sensor on the East Antarctic Ice Sheet in 2001. Credit: Douglas Wiens and Patrick Shore Something's Shaking in Antarctica By Douglas Fox ScienceNOW Daily News 4 June 2008 Scientists have discovered massive, slow-motion "ice quakes" trembling twice a day through the West Antarctic Ice Sheet, an Alaska-sized swath of Antarctica. Detective work has traced the source of the shaking to the Whillans Ice Stream, a glacier 100 kilometers across and 1 kilometer thick, which flows It may seem strange that magnitude-7 quakes went unnoticed for so long--a temblor of similar size leveled entire towns and killed at least 15,000 in Turkey in 1999--but people standing on the Whillans Ice Stream never notice the shaking. "The reason that it doesn't rattle the whole continent is that it's a very slow event," says Sridhar Anandakrishnan, a glaciologist at Pennsylvania State University in State College, who made the discovery along with Douglas Wiens, a seismologist at Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri. Normal earthquakes release their energy over a few seconds, but the Whillans's shaking unfolds over 20 minutes. Wiens first noticed the ice quakes 3 years ago as he analyzed data from 43 seismic sensors across Antarctica. Hoping for faint signals that would help him pinpoint previously unknown faults, he was instead greeted by booming vibrations from the same spot in West Antarctica. Wiens then looked at seismic data collected in 2004, the same year that Anandakrishnan had deployed 16 GPS sensors on the Whillans Ice Stream that tracked the ice's movement every 10 seconds. Most glaciers edge forward continuously, but the Whillans was already known to behave bizarrely: It sits still most of the time, then surges more than a half-meter forward twice per day as ocean tides lift and lower a slab of floating ice that extends from the end of the glacier onto the Ross Sea, just off the coast of Antarctica. By combining the GPS and seismic data, the researchers saw that the ice quakes and glacial surges Finding the causes of ice quakes--which also occur in Greenland--could lead to better understanding glacial movement and improved models of how glaciers will respond to climate change, says Robert Bindschadler, a glaciologist at NASA Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland, who first reported the twice-daily surges of the Whillans Ice Stream in 2003. "What has come from these discoveries is a realization that glaciers have other modes of behavior than we have thought of previously," says Göran Ekström, a seismologist with Columbia University.
Posted by John Berbatis, 20/12/2008 1:37:05 PM

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