Two years after their employment agreement expired, there's no end in sight for Canberra's urban firefighters in their battle for a new deal.
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They've been taking industrial action for a number of weeks and on Saturday exercised a new right allowing them to speak with the media.
And yet, during the space of the hour-long interview, the crew at the Belconnen Fire Station twice dropped everything, walked out mid-sentence and hopped into their giant fluoro-green truck to attend an emergency.
It was an obvious example of the dedication the city's firefighters have to the Canberra community despite working under less than ideal conditions.
Firefighters have rejected a 10 per cent pay increase offered by the government, which would have been on top of the core offer of an 11.4 per cent increase over four years.
Commander Todd Bourne has been a firefighter for almost 30 years. He fought the 2003 bushfires and said he held concerns the current structure of the service was at odds with all the changes implemented after the disaster.
"It's not about money, it's about providing the best fire service to the community," Mr Bourne said.
Firefighters are calling for a significant increase in recruitment and for greater staff training. Data has shown emergency service workers, including firefighters, are working an increasing level of overtime.
Mr Bourne said the service needed new fire stations, particularly in Molonglo where the 2003 fires were the most damaging. He said the service should look to be proactive in training and recruitment to stay ahead of operational needs.
He said the goal was to ensure "surge capability", so that if crews were occupied with a major incident, there were enough other crews to oversee day-to-day needs.
Station officer Damian Holloway said the overtime was having a noticeable impact on firefighters. After already completing a standard 42-hour week, firefighters were being called in to do extra over time shifts of either 10 or 14 hours.
"There's a group of firefighters with certain skillsets that are being relied upon to cover that overtime," Mr Holloway said.
There was a lack of training of new firefighters in specialised areas such as vertical rescue and hazmat response, he said.
Senior firefighter Nick Louis said the firefighters were forced to do ongoing skill maintenance during shifts where training could be disrupted at any moment.
United Firefighters Union ACT secretary Greg McConville said the union did not want its members hung out to dry by insufficient training.
Mr Bourne said "you can't just snap your fingers" when it came to specialised training.
"A lot of staff would rather be retired now, but they want to put this right, they want to pass on their experience."
Mr Holloway said the excessive overtime also increased their exposure to harmful chemicals and trauma. He said Canberra's older fire stations needed to be brought into line with modern safety requirements, such as appropriate decontamination areas.
"You come into this job understanding there is a level of risk," Mr Holloway said. "But you don't come into work expecting you'll be continually exposed to chemicals because there's not adequate ventilation or clean and dirty transition areas."
Mr Louis added: "The overtime can lead to more PTSD, which means more time off work, which means increased shortages."
An Emergency Services Agency spokeswoman said it was working towards resolutions as quickly as possible.
She also said the government was continually investing in emergency services, with 18 new firefighters and a new aerial appliance part of $1.3 billion in funding over four years. In an April 30 letter to staff Commissioner Dominic Lane said the offer of increased pay was in recognition of the trust the government has in its firefighters.
"We consider our firefighters are capable, adaptive, can think for themselves, and want more flexible ways of operating to deliver even better services," he said. "Similarly, we seek to attract firefighters with these qualities in the future."