
You're doing pretty well if you can leave Nic White at a loss for words.
Stop him in the street and he'll take the time for a chat. Important to give back where he can, White says. And on the field? The ACT Brumbies scrumhalf might be small in stature but his voice is always loudest.
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But ask him about the feeling he had when he first held his newborn baby Vincent - he and wife Mel's third boy - and the stand-in Brumbies captain needs a moment.
Times like these reinforce a game of rugby is just that - a game.
"It's really hard to explain. I certainly didn't know what I was getting myself into when we had Leo, our first. It's a love you can't describe, it's a different sort of love," White said.
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"We took [Vincent] home and the boys [Leo and Sonny] have that love for him as well. You really can't describe it, but once you have it you have way more appreciation for your own parents.
"Since having kids, it's given me a different perspective. People tell you that and you can hear it, try to understand it, but not until you have one can you really get the grasp of it.
"Win or lose, it's not all doom and gloom and it certainly felt like that after the Reds game, because you Facetime the kids and it puts things into perspective. That's what has helped my rugby in the past five years, having kids. It gives you a good balance.

"Mel is the real hero, the real superstar. Mum is healthy, bub is healthy, they're both at home. Since then she's been nice and busy this week, I had to come up and play the Reds, her mum has been down and my mum is now down.
"All hands on deck, but it's what we wanted, a very energetic household."
White will captain the Brumbies against the Fijian Drua in Brisbane on Saturday night, filling the void left by Allan Alaalatoa who has been ruled out with neck soreness.
He takes the reins in the midst of a disjointed week at club headquarters. The bulk of the Brumbies' first-choice squad missed the first half of the week's training due to a Wallabies camp on the Gold Coast.
But that camp could add another weapon to the Brumbies' arsenal with trans-Tasman rugby on the horizon.
Wallabies coaches took the chance to meet with every player in camp to list strengths, weaknesses and what they want to see more of leading into Australia's July Tests against England.
For White, it's the running game.

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"Dating all the way back to 2019 in Perth [while playing for the Wallabies], it probably took me a long time to realise it but my running game is what has worked," White said.
"In the past couple of years, thinking of Wellington in that first game in 2020, I think I ran the ball 10 or 12 times. Last year when we looked really threatening, a lot of it was [on the back of] Tate [McDermott] running.
"I don't think that's a huge part of our game down in Canberra but we've been playing the Aussie teams, and that's what we've needed.
"We'll probably have to evolve over the next couple of weeks before we play the Highlanders and that's an area where we've certainly looked at my game and gone 'well, in an Australian jersey I run quite a bit but in a Brumbies one I don't'.
"It's an area I think I'm doing well in and getting the balance right, but it's something they're looking at and I need to up my game. Everything else, they're pretty happy with and I'll keep plugging away at my basics.
"It gives everyone clarity in the 10 weeks before the squad will get picked for the England series, get everyone aligned with how the Wallabies coaches are seeing it before we go back."
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White knows he has to evolve or risk losing his Wallabies jersey. The first step comes against the Drua, a side he believes is learning to trust its DNA. Win or lose, the first thing he'll do on Sunday morning is pick up the phone. Perspective will be waiting on the other end.
SUPER RUGBY PACIFIC ROUND EIGHT
Saturday: Fijian Drua v ACT Brumbies at Lang Park, 7.45pm. Broadcast live on Stan Sport.
Brumbies squad: 1. James Slipper, 2. Billy Pollard, 3. Sefo Kautai, 4. Darcy Swain, 5. Tom Hooper, 6. Ed Kennedy, 7. Luke Reimer, 8. Rob Valetini, 9. Nic White (c), 10. Rod Iona, 11. Andy Muirhead, 12. Irae Simone, 13. Len Ikitau, 14. Cam Clark, 15. Tom Wright. Reserves: 16. Connal McInerney, 17. Scott Sio, 18. Tom Ross, 19. Nick Frost, 20. Rory Scott, 21. Ryan Lonergan, 22. Hudson Creighton, 23. Ollie Sapsford.
Drua squad: 1. Haereiti Hetet, 2. Mesulame Dolokoto, 3. Samuela Tawake, 4. Viliame Rarasea, 5. Chris Minimbi, 6. Joseva Tamani, 7. Vilive Miramira, 8. Meli Derenalagi (c), 9. Frank Lomani, 10. Teti Tela, 11. Vinaya Habosi, 12. Tuidraki Samusamuvodre, 13. Apisalome Vota, 14. Selestino Ravutaumada, 15. Kitione Ratu. Reserves: 16. Tevita Ikanivere, 17. Timoci Sauvoli, 18. Jone Tiko, 19. Isoa Nasilasila, 20. Raikabula Momoedon, 21. Rusiate Nasove, 22. Simione Kuruvoli, 23. Napolioni Bolaca.
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Caden Helmers
My passion for journalism can be traced back to Mighty Ducks match reports and reading the Sunday paper with my old man. A love of sport turned into a passion for telling stories, breaking news and being a reliable voice.
My passion for journalism can be traced back to Mighty Ducks match reports and reading the Sunday paper with my old man. A love of sport turned into a passion for telling stories, breaking news and being a reliable voice.