Len Ikitau has spent more than five minutes dispatching questions like he does defenders when all of a sudden he feels the lump in his throat as the conversation turns to Darcy Swain.
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"Sorry," Ikitau manages, his voice cracking and the tears starting to well. He unsuccessfully tries to gather himself and apologises again before trying to resume.
"Darcy's been awesome for me," he says, fighting back tears.
"He's given me this opportunity, there are a lot of boys who have come down from Brisbane from our school ... he opened that opportunity. I'm just going to miss him.
"He just showed that if you work hard and come down to Canberra, you've got the right pathway and you can make it. So I'm very proud of Darc."
It's no surprise by the time Swain steps outside on the same blade of grass where Ikitau was standing that the big ACT Brumbies lock can't contain his emotions, either.
"Yeah," Swain says when asked if people like Ikitau made it harder to leave Canberra after almost a decade. When he tries to add more detail, he pauses:"Nah, I just [can't] talk about it."
What was seemingly a run-of-the-mill press conference to announce Swain's decision to join the Western Force transformed into a moment of raw emotion on Monday.
Swain has been mulling his contract options since last year, tossing up his desire to stay in Canberra and an opportunity to chase more game time in Perth.
It wasn't until the two close mates, who moved to the capital as teenagers to pursue their rugby dreams, spoke that it all became real.
The human element is often overlooked in major contract decisions like the one Swain has made.
The financial rewards lead many to think athletes treat those decisions as business rather than passion. As such, athletes are more regularly treated like commodities than people.
But Ikitau and Swain showed a different side when they stepped out of the Brumbies' offices on a chilly morning to front the media. To them, it wasn't about the Brumbies versus the Force. It wasn't even about Canberra versus Perth. It was about family.
Ikitau and his partner Sammie welcomed son Lennox into the world a year ago. Swain and his partner are expecting a baby boy in June.
"He's my best mate, so it's hard to see him go," Ikitau said. "He's got a baby on the way and it would have been nice for little Lennox and Darcy Swain junior growing up together, but I'm just happy for him."
Swain spoke honestly and confidently for five minutes about the reasons for his departure before he was overcome with emotion. Ultimately, he said he was leaving because it was "my time to move on".
"It was the toughest decision I've had to make," Swain said. "I had to talk to a lot of people and consider a lot of things. We play in a professional game [so it happens].
"The opportunity, I didn't want to turn it down to do something different. I think it will be a good change for me and my family going forward. I'm very grateful to have been a part of this organisation and make some good memories. Hopefully some more memories to come."
While the Brumbies didn't want to lose Swain, the fact he's staying in Super Rugby is a good thing for the overall health of Australian rugby. Rather than losing another Test-quality player to an overseas team, Swain will still compete for Wallabies duties and strengthen the Force forward pack.
He fell off the Wallabies' radar last year after some self-described "pretty rough" form, but has bounced back to his best and has at times taken on the Brumbies' captaincy role.
He credited the work of Laurie Fisher, Ben Mowen and psychologist Guy Little, who he says has helped him control the on-field emotions that have in the past led to brain snaps and suspensions.
"I want to go as far as we can this year," Swain said. "Last year [I was in] some pretty rough form. I came off the bench and didn't do much, but I feel like I've cleaned that up."
Ironically, it was the thought of sending Swain out as a winner that triggered the outpouring of emotion from Ikitau.
The Brumbies held on to beat the Fijian Drua last weekend, keeping third spot on the ladder. They face the NSW Waratahs in Sydney this week to start the last month of the regular season.
"It would be nice [to win it all], wouldn't it? He's been here since 2015 and I've been here since 2016, so it's been a long journey for us, we've enjoyed it," Ikitau said. "It would be nice [to win a title together]."
Imagine the emotion if the Brumbies can find a way to ensure Swain goes out on a high.
"It would be unreal," Swain said. "We haven't done it [at the Brumbies since '04. There was 2021, but that's a Super AU and it's a bit different. That'd be unbelievable to win a Super Rugby title."