Their training careers are eternally linked. It started the same day - Keith Dryden and Neville Layt sitting side by side, waiting for interviews to get their licences.
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Now, some 35 years later, or there abouts, they carry the hopes of the region in Canberra's premier race, the $300,000 Black Opal Stakes (1200 metres).
Dryden, and his training partner Scott Collings, has Brennaman ($71), while Layt has Redicon ($34) - a fair way off $2.80-favourite Rome in the market.
But they're in it, which means they're still a chance in what looks set to be a field of eight for the group 3 feature at Canberra's Thoroughbred Park on Sunday.
Brennaman finished 10th in the Black Opal Preview, his only run, while Redicon finished third that day.
That run reflects the hopes of the two trainers.
"It's a tough race, but he doesn't know he's at $150 or whatever it is," Dryden said.
"I whispered in his ear that he'd run in the first five. He's only two years old so he's not used to porky pies yet.
"He's really a mile horse, but we bought him hoping he'd get a run in the Black Opal - well he's there."
Layt added: "He ran in the Breeders' Plate and he wasn't disgraced. He did miss the kick by about three or four lengths, but he's learnt to jump now.
"His run the other day, it was the two Sydney horses that beat him and then it was a gap to the next lot of horses. He has come on from there and I give him a very good each-way chance."
The pair were brought together by one of Canberra's leading trainers, Jack Gordon, back in the 70s.
Layt moved to Canberra to ride for Gordon, who trained horses for Dryden.
His interest well-and-truly piqued, Dryden then began his own highly successful training career, while a leg injury and some nagging mates sent Layt down the same path as well.
"We've known each other a long time. When we applied for our trainers licence we applied on the same day at the [South East Racing Association] offices," Dryden said.
"I don't know what day I applied for my trainers licence, but we had to go for interviews ... and 'Nifty' and I were sitting up outside together."
But training wasn't Layt's first career choice when he hung up the whip.
"I finished riding in 1984. I had a bad leg and lot of complications so I couldn't ride again," he said.
"I wanted to be a steward and they wouldn't let me be that because it was too close to home.
"A couple of friends of mine were at me and at me to take a couple of horses to train, and then a friend of mine in Sydney, who was a judge, he heard I was taking out a licence so he sent a horse down to me and I had it three days and I took it to Braidwood and it won so I thought how easy is this."
The duo's ties together in the Black Opal have another twist in the tale.
Dryden had $1.80-favourite De Lightning Ridge running in the 2008 Opal, but it was Layt's longshot, Sarthemare ($51), who saluted, with Dryden's charge missing the start and storming home to finish third.
Layt faced a similar fate three years later when his $1.20-favourite Karuta Queen was beaten by Gratz Vella's $11-shot You're Canny.
"I won it with a 100-1. Unfortunately me mate had the $1.10 favourite that day and that was Keith," Layt said.
"In this game luck plays a big part, so we're hoping. I'd love to win it, Keith would love to win it to hold up for the community, it'd be great.
"We've been here a long time and if either of us won it it'd be fantastic."
BLACK OPAL STAKES DAY
Sunday: Gates open 11.30am with the first race at 1pm. Tickets available from Ticketek.
