Ceramics expert Robert Yellin speaks with the voice of a philosopher, dropping aphorisms as gently as he would set down one of the valuable plates in his collection.
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American by birth, he's spent the past 40 years in Japan and is considered one of the leading authorities on pottery here. I've come to his small gallery in Kyoto to learn specifically about sake cups, as part of a day exploring the heritage of sake in Japan's former capital - but as we chat, I realise his maxims are deeper than the pieces we're talking about, that they hold everything I need to know about this topic.
Robert's wisdom number one: "It's like holding a poem, it's like holding a haiku."
In Japan, ceramics are more than just utilitarian vessels. People often pick up dishes to eat, or drink directly from a bowl, bringing them closer to their crockery. The shapes of plates change for different foods, the colours are rotated for different seasons.
When it comes to cups for sake, traditionally they were all handmade, which is why Robert sees them as poems. A piece of the creator ends up in each of them (not literally) because they are all pieces of art, and each drinker makes a statement when they choose their cup. The colour, the shape, the perfect imperfections are all part of the journey of drinking sake.
Robert's wisdom number two: "I like letting go of control and something magical happens."
In Kyoto's industrial outskirts of Fushimi, about 15 kilometres from Robert's gallery and the city's famous temples, metal warehouses and highway overpasses stand as shrines to the modern economy. But in a side street, charming historic wooden frontages take me back centuries to when this was the heart of the country's sake production.
Today, there are still more than 20 sake breweries, but Tsukino Katsura is the oldest, first sliding open its doors in 1675. Although it looks traditional, with rooms supported by wooden beams and dusty ceramic bottles piled up in the attic, it's actually revolutionary, going against the grain (so to speak). In the 1960s, it successfully lobbied the Japanese government to be the first allowed to create a less filtered, sweeter, and cloudier type of sake called "nigori", a style which is now a huge hit internationally, the son of the man who led the campaign tells me.
Robert's wisdom number three: "It's the epitome of boring to have a matching set."
I wouldn't have known about Tsukino Katsura and had the opportunity to talk to the current head of the brewery if it wasn't for my guide, Van Milton. Not just an expert on Kyoto, he is a sake connoisseur, and has a few wisdoms of his own to share. ("Wine is very dependent on the quality of the grapes, but sake is dependent on the skill of the brewer", for example.)
Van has developed today's bespoke itinerary for me with tour company InsideJapan, one of the leading operators in the country. As well as offering excellent small-group trips, they can also put together tailor-made tours based on specific interests, just as we're doing in Kyoto.
"Sake provides an excuse to go out to that tiny town and meet the family who makes it, try it with the local food," Van says, "and that's the best kind of tourism."
While there's nothing wrong with doing a standard tour, especially somewhere like Japan if you've never been before, Robert is right that it can be boring if everything just feels the same. A tailored itinerary delving deeper into just one topic is a different experience - and I wouldn't have met Robert Yellin if it wasn't for that. Speaking of...
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Robert's wisdom number four: "A ceramic is just like a person, every one is unique."
Yes, every sake cup is unique in some way, and so is every sake, just as every sake brewery is. Back in the centre of Kyoto, Van takes me to Matsui Sake Brewery, one of the few that remains in the dense urban centre. Although it was founded in 1726 and is still owned by the same family, it's now an excellent example of how Japan's traditions have been combined with its technology.
The rice is still hand washed at Matsui, for example, but then it's put through special modern temperature and hygiene control that makes the process more efficient and secure. And after a tour of the facilities, I head to the tasting area where I use a card loaded with credit to buy shots of different types of sake from a machine. It's also where I try "namazake", an unpasteurised style that needs to be served fresh, always different wherever you go.
Robert's wisdom number five: "Plates and bowls are like the kimono for food."
Finally, after an excellent day with InsideJapan Tours and guide Van Milton, I settle in for dinner at Hotel Okura Kyoto Okazaki Bettei. Only opened in 2022, it embraces the elegance of historic Kyoto with rooms that look out over a tranquil Zen garden.
Although I can see the garden from the dinner table, I'm more focused tonight on the signature meal, an excellent multi-course menu of Japanese-French fusion... and on the ceramics that have been chosen for its presentation.
I think back to something Robert Yellin said as he gazed at the pieces in his collection, a bonus wisdom perhaps. "These pieces will root you in the moment, they're connected to the past, and someone in the future will find beauty in them too."
I hope that's also true for an exploration of sake in Kyoto because, for me, it's been a special day, like holding a poem, holding a haiku.
Michael Turtle was a guest of Kyoto City Tourism. You can see more things to do in Kyoto on his Time Travel Turtle website.