One of the most senior women in the public service says she still faces instances of inappropriate behaviour in the workplace that need to be called out.
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At a seminar on women in leadership hosted by the Institute of Public Administration Australia in late September, three female secretaries were asked how they react to instances of sexism in the workplace, how they "call out" moments such as being spoken over in meetings.
"Throughout my career I've had to call behaviours," Veterans' Affairs secretary Liz Cosson said, explaining how early in her military career she was called to lead groups of men who didn't take well to being asked to change their behaviours.
"Where people talk over you, I still deal with that at the moment, where some people just like to be heard," Ms Cosson said.
"I let them and then I say 'now I'd like to offer my opinion'. I don't try and compete and talk over them because they're wanting to have the louder voice, but it's making sure I find my space to actually make the point."
Ms Cosson and her counterpart at the Department of Jobs and Small Business Kerri Hartland both advised that taking action to call out sexist behaviour should be done privately and not in front of a large group.
"Never be afraid and do it respectfully when you're calling out a behaviour. I've never done it openly or lost my temper, I call it in private and I've had to do it a few times," Ms Cosson said.
Ms Hartland said it's not always obvious when sexist or disrespectful behaviours have been dealt with.
"One of the harder things is that people don't always realise that you've called it out. It's like dealing with under-performance in the workplace, there might be a million things that are actually going on underneath but for privacy reasons and because of the way it's been handled you're not actually able to share that," Ms Hartland said.
"Those things are tricky, but the timing and how you do it is really important."
Generally, the secretaries on the panel, which included Education and Training boss Michele Bruniges, said the public service had taken great strides when it came to representation of women in leadership roles and how they are treated.
"Liz and I have been really lucky to come into the secretaries board when we had a 50-50 split," Ms Hartland said.
"I can't imagine what it would have been like to be Helen Williams [the first woman to be appointed a secretary in the Australian public service], who was speaking here not so long ago, how she would have been able to find a voice in a way, that we can pretty easily find our voice."
Dr Bruniges, who has also been in the top position of the NSW Education Department, said senior women in the public service had a supportive network.
"Today we've got a really strong network, there's a sense that we're comfortable in our own stride and ... having the diversity and gender balance is really helpful," Dr Bruniges said.
