"Just take it and go away," Jaclyn Maroney tells her 10-year-old-son.
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We're on the phone discussing her kids' use of social media. Her oldest two kids are home from school and asking to use the tablet.
She's already had to fend off three demands for the tablet and the phone in the last five minutes.
"He's already on the phone to his friends from school," she sighs, as the sounds of her son Owen speaking echo in the background.
Of course, he's not actually "on the phone": Owen is using Messenger Kids, a Facebook app that allows parents to control who their kids contact.
Her oldest son, 12-year-old Elliot, is playing a video game with his friends.
Limiting her kids' time on their devices is a never-ending battle, Maroney says.
"They're definitely addicted," she says.
"I have enough problems with their device addictions as it stands without them getting more platforms to use, I'm not excited about them moving on to social media."
Social media again in the spotlight
Jaclyn Maroney and her kids are at the centre of a national debate about the place of social media in the lives of Aussie kids.
This week the Queensland government announced its support for raising the minimum age for social media accounts to 14, saying younger children may "not be equipped with the emotional maturity to deal with its complexity."
South Australia is also considering a ban on under 14s using social media, while the NSW premier said the ban should apply to children under 16.
The ACT government has been considering raising the minimum age to 16, with a focus on "harm minimisation" of the territory's kids.
Federal minister Tanya Plibersek even admitted on national radio that social media has "escaped us".
"We are at a bit of a loss about how we allow our kids to be connected online," she said.
"Your kids are always telling you, if I'm the only one who's not allowed to use it, I'll be left out. Parents are so worried about their kids being isolated ... [I'm] more inclined to cave than I should have been at times."
It's a contentious issue. Research is rife with appalling cases of abuse, manipulation and bullying on social media platforms. But the apps also provide a vital link to the outside world, with opportunities for kids to stay more connected with their friends and family than ever before.
A 2023 report from the University of Sydney found almost 70 per cent of 12 to 17-year-olds have used Tik Tok or Snapchat, with most having joined in late primary school - with or without their parents' permission.
The researchers also noted that young people admitted they often do what they want online, and that their parents lack control.
Conversations lack nuance, experts say
For social network student Hannah Robertson, the discussions around limiting children's social media treat the platforms like a "big bad beast".
She says we need to acknowledge that our society as a whole is chronically online.
"It isn't just an issue that's affecting children, it's a society-wide issue that adults are also reckoning with," she says.
"If we were to move to an environment where children were less digitally engaged, it's almost as though you're restricting them from a really important part of society."
The PhD candidate says that while government intervention is necessary, it's also important to consider how fast technology evolves compared to government legislation.
"By the time you get all of the legislation up to date, the very issue that you're trying to address has changed and evolved," Robertson says.
"The horse has kind of bolted here ... kids have grown up as digital natives and have carved out spaces of connection and empowerment on the Internet.
"If you were to come in and take that away from them, I think it could certainly do more harm than good."
Parents urged to get on the apps
The question of parental control is a familiar one to Kirra Pendergast, CEO of Safe on Social Media.
She spends her workdays talking through online safety with parents and their kids.
The proposed age bans are a waste of time, she says, with kids already circumventing the limits for years.
She says parents need to put boundaries in place.
"They need to fully understand what their kids are using. Parents don't know how to use Snapchat and yet they're letting kids on it," she says.
"I'm seeing kids as young as eight using apps like Snapchat now."
Parents need to remember they are the parents, Pendergast says, and they need to think carefully about what they want for their kid.
"I actually promote to parents to hold off [on giving their child a phone] as long as they can until their child has developed a healthy sense of self esteem and self worth because social media apps start to systematically dismantle that," she says.
"A lot of parents don't educate their kids about atrocities like the Holocaust because they think they're too young and then they hand them a phone and they can see everything."
Ongoing struggle for families
Maroney says her son Elliot has a smartphone with a parenting control, so he can only call and text. Her younger children don't have phones, but use the family tablets.
Elliot and Owen aren't allowed social media like Instagram and TikTok.
"It's kind of annoying not being able to talk with [my friend] as much," Elliot says.
"Sometimes they text me and ask me if I could hop on a game."
Almost all of his friends have smartphones, he says, and many already have Instagram even though they're not 13.
Tiktok, Snapchat and Facebook are also popular social media platforms.
"[my friends are] just scrolling, and they're always talking to each other," Elliot says.
"The average person probably spends six hours on their phone, while I usually spend around two."
His mum says it gets to a point where it's simply easier to let the kids have their devices.
"I think something needs to be done but I don't know if raising the age will actually be effective," Maroney says.
"As Elliott said, most of his friends are already on a lot of these platforms and they're not 13.
"It's just being able to manage it on our own with three children at home."
Tips for parents
Social media expert Dr Catherine Jeffery gave The Canberra Times a few tips to help parents manage their kids' intake.
- Have conversations with your kid about acceptable habits
- Have conditions on social media use, e.g. Don't 'friend' strangers
- No devices in the bedroom at night
- No devices at the dining table for parents and kids
- Model good phone behaviour
- Keep the lines of communication open