Australian Public Service 'lost its soul' at times during Robodebt scheme rollout, Gordon de Brouwer says

The robodebt scheme falsely claimed more than 400,000 social welfare recipients owed the government money, based on income averaging.

The process calculated debt by comparing reported fortnightly income with averaged annual pay data from the tax office.

Hearings for a royal commission into the scheme concluded in March, and a final report with recommendations will be produced by the end of June.

"I'm personally deeply sorry for what the public service did to them," Dr de Brouwer told the Institute of Public Administration Australia's Work with Purpose podcast, published on Monday.

"I think what we can see is that to some degree, the service, parts of the service at times have lost its soul, lost its focus on people, its empathy for people."

Dr de Brouwer said the APS was awaiting the final report, and would need to reflect on how it discharged its legal and ethical duties, including through its leadership.

"And we'll need to examine and act to strengthen our systems, including training and performance management across the service, to ensure that what we've seen so far, isn't repeated."

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Dr de Brouwer, formerly a secretary of the Department of the Environment and Energy, was appointed to his current role in June 2022, for a two-year term.

He will lead implementation of the Albanese government's public service reforms, which include growing transparency and integrity and cutting spending on contractors.

"It's actually not that hard," Dr de Brouwer said, when asked about maintaining integrity while being responsive to ministers' requests.

"I'm really thinking of that ad that says, 'Porque no los dos?' You can do both. You know, it's actually not that hard," he said.

"The only way you can sustain delivery, is if you've actually got the right behaviours underpinning it, that way you can sustain that delivery over time.

"When it comes to things like integrity, it's not a woke concept, it's actually just the law. It's just a basic legal requirement on you doing your job."

The reform boss also said ministers want "full and frank advice", as he recalled being given this directive as a secretary under former prime minister Tony Abbott.

"My experience is that most ministers do appreciate the advice," he said.

"They do want it in private, and they don't want you, in a sense, advertising your difference or disagreements, so that's where some of the concerns and fears around FOI periodically come up.

"But they do want it."

Dr de Brouwer emphasised public servants must put their advice to ministers in writing.

"If your advice isn't in writing, then actually when it comes down to the crunch, it's arguable to say that it never really existed," he said.

He added that there are mechanisms in place to keep advice private.

"There are protections especially legal-in-confidence, is a key one, and restricted circulation.

"But advice in writing is really important."

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